"So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 2002 - 2018

[Loachman]

1) What aptitudes are relied on most during training? Math? Physics?

Motivation, drive, determination to succeed, effort. I've never seen anybody cruise through the process. It's work, but rewarding work. Motivation, drive, determination to succeed, and effort are not guarantors of success - inability to learn at the rate required, lack of co-ordination, bad luck, and a host of other things can kill one's chances - but they are absolutely essential. The only math that I've ever used in a cockpit was taught in the English equivalent of early grade school. I've never had to apply anything learned in a physics class.

If one is not strong in these areas should they not bother to apply?

Apply, regardless, presuming that you meet or exceed the enrollment standard.

If you apply, you may succeed or you may not.

If you do not apply, you will not succeed and will most likely carry a regret for ever.

Decide what you want. Want it enough to work hard enough. Work hard enough to succeed.

And while you are working hard, make sure that you enjoy doing so, despite the pressures. If you are not enjoying yourself, think hard about your choices.

2) Once you are selected for XYZ aircraft, you basically learn this aircraft in and out, correct? Here, is this mostly mechanical aptitude, memorization of manuals, parts, etc?

One needs to know all of the systems inside and out, specifically what can go wrong and why, and how to correct or compensate for that. One needs to know all of the checks and procedures. One needs to know all of the performance factors and limitations. One needs to know all of the applicable tactics. One needs to know ... everything possible.

3) In terms of having 'the stuff', would 'the stuff' be something like, you're someone who's a great driver, with good reflexes and good motor skills and spatial awareness, and you're good at studying and remembering things (strong ongoing learning background). Or is this really weighted more towards people who are good at Math/Physics, calculations and formulas etc.

More or less. And the ability to remain calm and perform under stressful situations, sometimes dealing with multiple unwanted things happening simultaneously. We were given a page of simple formulae for calculation such things as bank angles to maintain standard-rate turns at various airspeeds in Moose Jaw. I cannot recall ever using any of those afterwards, because one learns to judge many of these things instinctively (at least on Helicopters).

4) Besides vision what's something that comes up during medical most people are blindsided by other than heart murmurs? (I don't think I have those) Wouldn't this be determined prior to signing on the dotted line?

The medical testing is pretty thorough, but it's not generally good at predicting things that may develop in the future, near or far.

In summary, simply put, some people can and some people cannot.

Of the first group, most work hard and succeed, a small number do not work hard enough and fail (no excuse whatsoever in those cases), and another small number work hard and get unlucky.

Of that last sub-group, some contribute to their bad luck by accepting unworkable instructor/student parings, are over- or under-confident or display other poor attitudes, party a little too much one or two nights before a test, and/or do not seek help when they should/before it's too late.

 

[Downhiller229]

Having recently been put through the training system I would agree with Loachman's perspective. I tried a balanced approach to my training where I put the time and effort I thought was required but also allowed a lot of time to relax and not thing/talk about flying. I found it very useful to be able to disconnect. Especially when experiencing setbacks and delays. Some of the most studious and dedicated students I met ended up doing very poorly because of their attitude and not being able to let go.

Honestly the right attributes to succeed? I think being a balanced individual and knowing how to analyze your own performance after setbacks and even good days. It is definitely a grind and you need to be ready to roll with the punches.

I think you should apply even if it seems far from attainable, it's a long road but at the end of the day very worth it. Good luck

 

[cdnjarhead]

Loachman thanks very much for the detailed response. After reading it I feel more confident I have what it takes to be a pilot. From what you state a lot of this seems like a function of hard work and intuition, I feel confident in both areas. Ultimately that's not for me to decide but it's a good start point. Of course, as you mention there are unlucky factors but as you also point out a lot of those can be mitigated/dealt with along the way i.e. being upfront things that aren't working for you and alerting people to issues before they snowball. I will have to snoop around the forums some more and go back to the CAF page and look for the aircraft that interest me most. I'm a truck guy so I'm thinking something big like a transport plane. Helicopters also interest me though.

Downhiller229 congrats on recently having gone through the training, you're standing at the top of tall hill I'm considering climbing. I like your comment about disconnecting. I think that sounds great, with all the mechanics and factors involved it sounds reasonable that you've gotta stay that much more clinical and detached. Through my various hobbies I've found analyzing performance and what's happening from the third person grants you the best solutions.

Think my biggest challenge will be getting my wife on board. Not literally she loves planes hah, but the prospect of time away already has her peeved. I'll talk her into it a bit more, read up some more then make the big decision on whether to change my trade choice.

Thanks for all the input fellas.

 

[mariomike]

Think my biggest challenge will be getting my wife on board.

This may help,

How to get family on board 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13678.450

 

[cdnjarhead]

This may help,

How to get family on board 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13678.450

Thanks for that mariomike. Reading that I see the biggest thing in the end of it all is making sure the choice is your own and owning that choice. I have no issue there. I think my wife would be supportive, for her it's the time away from home that is required of pilots. I'd just have to make darn sure if I was to put my career at #1 that she and rugrats were #1.5 at all times, with everything after that being #2 if you get what I mean. I already get into trouble for playing with the dog before going to see her when I get home but I tell her that's not my fault the dog makes the effort to run to the door!

 

[mariomike]

Thanks for that mariomike.

You are welcome. Good luck. 

 

[Loachman]

I tried a balanced approach to my training where I put the time and effort I thought was required but also allowed a lot of time to relax and not thing/talk about flying.

Obsession is never good, or healthy.

It is hard to explain to anybody how much work the first month, purely ground school, in Moose Jaw was. On Friday evenings we all got therapeutically hammered in the Mess, spent Saturdays doing normal life things, and then hit the books again all day on Sunday. There was a bit of a let-up following that month - not a lot, but noticeable and welcome - but there was still a lot of pressure to perform.

Especially when experiencing setbacks and delays.

And there will be some. We had one guy who suffered severely from testitis - he flew well during dual lessons but froze during tests. This only became worse after failing the first one, and he did not last long. Another fellow passed his Initial Clearhood Test (ICHT), partialled his Nav Test but passed the re-ride, then failed his first Instrument test. He passed the resultant re-ride, but failed his Instrument Rating Test. He was sure that he was gone at that point, but got another re-ride as he was a solid guy, always knew more than required, performed well in the cockpit, and made simple, easy-to-make but fatal errors on tests - some things can be relatively minor in magnitude but absolutely critical. Nobody, back then, and probably not now either, got as many chances. He passed the re-rides because he learned his lessons and, despite increased pressure, managed to relax himself enough to do what he was there to do. Unfortunately, he failed the IRT re-ride by blowing through an altitude restriction in his clearance on climb-out from Moose Jaw and that was the end.

knowing how to analyze your own performance after setbacks and even good days.

That is important, and the same thing is done during every mission debrief: an honest and open appraisal of what we did right, and what we did wrong/could improve upon and how.

There is a metric buttload of mistakes that can be made. It's a tad wasteful to make the same one twice.

it's a long road but at the end of the day very worth it.

It is and it is.

Excellent advice.

Loachman thanks very much for the detailed response.

My pleasure.

I will have to snoop around the forums some more and go back to the CAF page and look for the aircraft that interest me most. I'm a truck guy so I'm thinking something big like a transport plane. Helicopters also interest me though.

There is no need to decide until well into the Moose Jaw phase.

the prospect of time away already has her peeved.

There will be a bunch of that, yes, but there will be other postings where you would not be away much at all.

 

[cdnjarhead]

There will be a bunch of that, yes, but there will be other postings where you would not be away much at all.

Understood about not having to choose right away. Makes more sense actually.

As for these postings you speak of, I am not looking for anything cushy and I'd like to pull my weight, but that being said, I would definitely love a posting that allows me to both pull my weight and be with the family more. Are these postings difficult to land (no pun intended) or do they come with time?

 

[trampbike]

I would definitely love a posting that allows me to both pull my weight and be with the family more.

Sounds like SAR would be a proper fit.

As Loachman wrote, this is way down the line for you, and when the times come to be selected for one of the 3 streams, you have very little control over anything.
You could top your course, ask for helicopters, and end up flying fighters.
You could want multis and get helos, while other guys in your class asked for helos and got multis.
In the end though, there isn't a single bad flying job in the CF.

 

[cdnjarhead]

SAR= Search and Rescue?

Actually that sounds great, one of the reasons I initially thought to join the CAF was because of an interest in humanitarian missions and helping people (although I am not against blowing up the bad guys). I will ask about this. Understood about getting the post you get. 

 

[mariomike]

SAR= Search and Rescue?

Yes.

 

[Loachman]

You could top your course, ask for helicopters, and end up flying fighters.

Really? It used to be an absolute guarantee that the top student got his/her choice. Occasionally, posting blocks were changed in order to permit that to happen should the desired aircraft posting not appear in the original version of the block. Reneging on that promise was not acceptable, right to the top of Air Command. It still is not acceptable, in my mind.

You could want multis and get helos, while other guys in your class asked for helos and got multis.

That was once rare, too.

I traded postings with a fellow on my Basic Helicopter Course. He initially got Kiowas in Petawawa and I got Kiowas in Edmonton. There was no problem at all making the switch, and we were both much happier.

I actually found out where I was really going from the barmaid in the Chateau Room of the Mess in Moose Jaw, three days before I received official confirmation of the change.

In the end though, there isn't a single bad flying job in the CF.

There certainly used to be.

Instructing on Musketeers in Portage was the least desireable flying posting in the whole CF. All of the pipeliners were RMC grads, and they were not keen. My instructor was an ex-Tracker Pilot, much to my benefit.

I'd consider any non-Tac Hel flying job to be purely terrible.

 

[trampbike]

Really? It used to be an absolute guarantee that the top student got his/her choice.

Top students always get their 1st choice, that is still a thing at the Big 2... but you know what they say about rules and exceptions (top guy puts helos first, jets third, gets jets)!

I'd consider any non-Tac Hel flying job to be purely terrible

I thought so too when I got to Moose Jaw for ph2, still kind of thought that leaving Moose Jaw after ph3, now I can kind of see the greatness of other types of flying 
Kind of

 

[Loachman]

The top student one or two courses ahead of me wanted Hercs. There were none in the block. They tried to push him to fighters, because "everybody wants to be a fighter pilot". He refused, several times, and insisted that they keep their promise and give him his first choice. Eventually, they caved and found him a Herc slot.

 

[jeffreycao1998]

Hi, I'm currently in grade 12 and am going to write my aptitude test on the 10th. I was just wondering how competitive are the CEOTP spots really. I've been hearing a lot of stories on different forums of how only 40% of the original pass the course and that it's really hard to get selected for this specific program. However my friend who's had a 70-80 average all throughout high school and got in and then failed out of the seneca aviation program had the choice to become a pilot for the CAF. So really how competitive is this program to get into right now?

 

[bradley247]

Being accepted as a pilot, no matter what entry plan, is very competitive. I'm not aware of anyone failing yet (and certainly not 60%), maybe they were talking about aircrew selection, which has a 30-40% pass rate. That has nothing to do with Seneca though, it's part of the recruitment process, and all pilot applicants go through it.

 

[jeffreycao1998]

So what happens if you fail aircrew selection? Will you have to change trades/leave or will you have more chances to become a pilot?

 

[PuckChaser]

So what happens if you fail aircrew selection? Will you have to change trades/leave or will you have more chances to become a pilot?

If you fail aircrew you don't get pilot, and you don't get Seneca. They'll ask if you want any other trades, and if you don't, see you later, thanks for applying.

 

[bradley247]

Aircrew selection is done prior to joining, if you fail, your application for pilot doesn't continue (you can still continue the application for your other trade choices). You can attempt aircrew selection up to 3 times, and each must be at least 1 year apart.

 

[JackMerridrew]

Im conditionally excepted into Seneca through CEOTP and my average was exactly 80%. As long as you have calculus and it's above 75% you should be fine AFAIK. Just focus on your CFAT, ALOT of my highschool friends have failed it because they were too cocky to review.