Sig. Officer in Comm Res for a year without BMQ

[Spidron]

Hi Folks,

I have made application for sig. officer but it is not possible to do the BMQ training this summer as deadlines appear to have come and gone. What can I expect to do during my 'year' in the Comm. res. until I can complete some phases next spring/summer?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Sig_Des]

Hi Folks,

I have made application for sig. officer but it is not possible to do the BMQ training this summer as deadlines appear to have come and gone. What can I expect to do during my 'year' in the Comm. res. until I can complete some phases next spring/summer?

Any help is appreciated.

Sitting and watching....that's about it. Your feet will not be able to touch the ground of a field ex....you can't deal with any of the secure items until you're trained and have a proper security clearance, which may take a while.

so, sitting and watching. You may get to shadow some officers.

 

[chrisf]

Not entirely true, dpendant on the unit...

Without basic/BOTP, you're fairly limited, though depending on the unit, they may take you into the field on a limited basis, or they may take you into the field 8-4 sort of thing.

In garrision, expect to be somone's "assistant", ideally, assistant to one of the OCs of one of the rad troops, good way to learn your job without doing your job.

 

[Spidron]

Thanks for the feedback,

So no playing with the C7s or radios, etc for a year.
well, given that I would simply be a fly on the wall for 8 months, would it make more sense to simply join the squadron 'after' BMQ?

 

[mdh]

well, given that I would simply be a fly on the wall for 8 months, would it make more sense to simply join the squadron 'after' BMQ?

Not necessarily - you can learn a lot by sheer "osmosis" and that extra knowledge helps when you are actually doing courses in the future; it will also get you acquainted with the unit - which is always nice 

(some units will do some pre-course prep while you're in limbo)

 

[Sig_Des]

Not entirely true, dpendant on the unit...

Without basic/BOTP, you're fairly limited, though depending on the unit, they may take you into the field on a limited basis, or they may take you into the field 8-4 sort of thing.

In garrision, expect to be somone's "assistant", ideally, assistant to one of the OCs of one of the rad troops, good way to learn your job without doing your job.

Comm Res Policy on this one is clear. Without Basic/BOTP, members may NOT participate on ranges or EX. If It's in unit fine, but should anything happen to them out on a training area or range, much poo poo in the fan.

 

[chrisf]

Comm Res Policy on this one is clear. Without Basic/BOTP, members may NOT participate on ranges or EX. If It's in unit fine, but should anything happen to them out on a training area or range, much poo poo in the fan.

We've had both officers and privates participate pre-basic.

As one sergeant once put it one weekend we were supposed to have some cadets join us "If we're going to have cadets shooting, you're going to be shooting"

And sorry Des, as much as I'm willing to believe you as you're generally right and I'm more often then not wrong, in this case, show me the documentation

 

[Sig_Des]

Oh, I have no doubt in my mind that some units take the attitude that if "cadets can join us" they'll shoot, but it goes against policy.

I'll have to documentation for you tomorrow, I've got it on the wall in Training troop.

 

[shadow]

When I was in the Comm Res it was like that as well.  Basically, anyone who hadn't completed Basic, were not allowed to participate in any live firing due to them not being qualified on the weapon  (One girl who med RTU'd spent a whole year in the unit before getting to try Basic a second time).
When I joined the militia in 92, my basic didn't start for 6 months, so they made a little troop for the 6 of us, and taught us drill, knots, first aid, etc...
They sent us in the field for 2 weeks in Pet and we got to help out in the SQ, in the flying kitchen, and they even let us do midnight Fire Pickets!  What a really nice bunch of soldiers they were 
Expect to spend your year learning, watching, listening, and doing jobs they would normally give to Privates: polishing brass, putting stickers on Pers Files, cleaning weapons/vehicles, working the bar in the Mess, updating nominal roles.  Although this may seem a little lame, I can guarantee it will give you a leg up on BMQ.  You'll probably already know many of the basic military skills, and when you attend your phase training, you'll already know a lot of the job skills as well.
Cheers
Shadow

 

[chrisf]

Oh, I have no doubt in my mind that some units take the attitude that if "cadets can join us" they'll shoot, but it goes against policy.

I'll have to documentation for you tomorrow, I've got it on the wall in Training troop.

Works for me.

 

[Sig_Des]

Works for me.

You ask, and I deliver. Communication Reserve Directive 354-Employment Limitations of Untrained Soldiers               

Can be viewed at Comm Res HQ website on the DIN:

http://img.mil.ca/operations/commres/G1_HR/comm_directives/directives_e.asp.

Here's some relevant excerpts

For Officers, the minimum requirement for field employment is Reserve Basic Officer Training Period (BOTP(R)) and Reserve Common Army Phase (CAP(R)). The following table outlines the type of officer employment permitted based upon qualification level achieved:

from referenced table:

Officer Qualification Type of Employment
           None                 No field employment.  Garrison employment must be under direct supervision.
                                                No equivalencies will be granted for partial BOTP(R) trg. 

For NCM's

For NCMs, the minimum requirement for field employment is Reserve Basic Military Qualification (BMQ(R)) and Reserve Soldier Qualification (SQ(R)).

from the table

NCM Qualification Type of Employment
           None                 No field employment.  Garrison employment must be under direct supervision.  No equivalencies will be
                                                granted for partial BMQ(R) trg. 
           BMQ(R)                 No field employment.  Can participate in C7 range and gas hut trg.  Garrison trg should focus on
                                                preparation for apprentice trg, such as driver trg and completing the voice procedure (VP) package
                                                for the Sig Op apprentice course. 

This Directive is based off CFAO 49-13 -Personnel Management and Accounting for Basic Trainees and DAOD 5003-1 - Restrictions on Duty.

Any questions, feel free to email me anytime buddy. Don't mess with a Jimmy who moonlights as a clerk

 

[Spidron]

Some  great information and much appreciated.

 

[chrisf]

NCM Qualification  Type of Employment
          None                  No field employment.  Garrison employment must be under direct supervision.  No equivalencies will be granted for partial BMQ(R) trg.

          BMQ(R)              No field employment.  Can participate in C7 range and gas hut trg.  Garrison trg should focus on preparation for apprentice trg, such as driver trg and completing the voice procedure (VP) package for the Sig Op apprentice course.

A rather odd directive, considering that BMQ(R) Qualified Pers make up most of our A-tp, and most of our non-bmq qualified pers already have their driver trg and pre-3s done.

Any questions, feel free to email me anytime buddy. Don't mess with a Jimmy who moonlights as a clerk

Which is why I didn't argue with you, I know you've been spending way too much time behind a desk to be wrong on this one

 

[Dave999]

How about this angle?

Any chance he could do his Basic Training on the weekends as an Infantry OCdt and then transfer to the Communication Squadron afterward? I hear Infantry can do their training on the weekends, so not making it to Basic for the summer isn’t so important??

Also, I think they run Basic Training in May and also again in July, so would he really be too late for the July session?

Dave

 

[George Wallace]

One more thing

I think they run Basic Training in May and also again in July, so would he really be too late for the July session?

You can't think of this and put it all into one post?  There is no need to make a post for every point you want to make.  You can easily go back and edit a post if you forgot something, as I noticed you did after making this post.

Now you are on the 'Radar'.   



Now, as to your comment above, you do realize each Phase Course is a 12 week course and there is not any likelihood that it is being run more than once in a summer.  It will probably start in the end of May and end in Mid August.

 

[Dave999]

Re:

Now, as to your comment above, you do realize each Phase Course is a 12 week course and there is not any likelihood that it is being run more than once in a summer.  It will probably start in the end of May and end in Mid August.

No I didn’t realize that. The information I have regarding Basic Training dates comes from the Master Corporal in charge of recruitment for the 723 (Halifax) Communications Squadron. As for duration of training, you’re right - I thought it was shorter. I’ll have to ask the Master Corporal what he was talking about. I hate to say it, but getting correct information from recruitment centers is often difficult and frustrating – but that’s another post… I’ll ask about this and post whatever he answers next week – just in case anyone is interested.

Dave

 

[Sig_Des]

Any chance he could do his Basic Training on the weekends as an Infantry OCdt and then transfer to the Communication Squadron afterward? I hear Infantry can do their training on the weekends, so not making it to Basic for the summer isn't so important??

Chance, yes. Small one. Likelihood, not so much. First off, the unit running the course may not appreciate taking up a position to train someone who they know they would not be retaining. Second, while it does sometimes happen, it's not very frequent that Communications Reserve units send people for their training on courses that are out of command. JaSO, don't start, I know you did an infantry basic on weekends, but let's be honest, Comm Res doesn't like sending people out of command. It undercuts their justification of having their own recruit school in Shilo.

Also, I think they run Basic Training in May and also again in July, so would he really be too late for the July session?

Spidron didn't give specific dates, he said that he couldn't make it for this summer. Plus, the paperwork hasn't been finalized, and there's a limited number of positions available on courses. They've pretty much got course lists filled up by now.

Which is why I didn't argue with you, I know you've been spending way too much time behind a desk to be wrong on this one

You not arguing with me is like a bathroom without toilet paper. Uncomfortable for everyone :-*

Besides, I'm done flying a desk as of tomorrow! WHOOOOOO!!! Back to in-trade work! 8)

 

[Spidron]

Again, great feedback and thanks!

I noticed a similair thread under recruiting so I suspect that every year the ranks must swell in September with folks like myself who were recruited in March or later and lack BMQ. Nonetheless, I will make the best of it and help any way I can.

From your experience does the paper work and kit usually get sorted in time for Septembe? I have nightmares of showing up for parade with no BMQ and no uniform... 

 

[chrisf]

JaSO, don't start, I know you did an infantry basic on weekends, but let's be honest, Comm Res doesn't like sending people out of command. It undercuts their justification of having their own recruit school in Shilo.

Still can't figure out why Shilo doesn't run one last recruit course in September... pick up the slack of pers who couldn't be loaded on during the summer courses and maybe even squeeze in a few medical RTUs from early in the summer... biggest problem in CommRes School Shilo has always been getting staff to go there, but I'm sure they can muster enough instructors and support staff to run a recruit course... I'm sure at least a quarter the people already on ground would be able to stay for it... I'm also sure the school could retain enough weapons (They're all on loan from units who'd need them for training during the fall/winter/spring) for those extra months for *one* course + instructors... only other kit problem is retaining radios, but even if they couldn't be scrounged somewhere, waive the requirement to learn the radios themselves, and use motorolas to teach basic VP and for the field ex. Run it starting in September, and you'll have your troops out before winter hits, no need for winter equipment... even if you want to think dirty in terms of money and efficiency, if you've got people available for the support posistions, you could even have them on ground starting in May and have them out in October early enough to avoid having to pay them class C.

That way, you've got pers who are BMQ qualified by November, so they're useful to the unit, then you can either load them on the SQ courses following the summer BMQ courses the following year (There's always extra room on the SQ courses, as there's enough room for everyone who was on BMQ, and there's always VRs, medical RTUs and just plain booted people during BMQ) or run an SQ course parallel to the first BMQ course of the year (All kit is already on ground, all support pers are on ground, cut the course down to 2 sections instead of 3 because there likely won't have enough pers to fill out 3 sections, and you should be able to get enough instructors), they should be done more or less in time to hand their weapons over to the second BMQ course of the year, and be loaded onto a QL3 course in Kingston.

Wait... was that a good idea? Silly logical thoughts...

Spidron didn't give specific dates, he said that he couldn't make it for this summer. Plus, the paperwork hasn't been finalized, and there's a limited number of positions available on courses. They've pretty much got course lists filled up by now.

200-250 positions for 23(?) comm res units across Canada. Seems like a lot of positions, but Sig_Des is right, fills up fast.

Besides, I'm done flying a desk as of tomorrow! WHOOOOOO!!! Back to in-trade work! 8)

Well darn, doesn't that also mean end of contract?

 

[Sig_Des]

Well darn, doesn't that also mean end of contract?

And the start of a new and improved contract.....including lot's of travel, and the opportunity to become a TCCCS God.

You'll hate me when I tell you the rest of it  ;D