Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[Rifleman62]

Hasn't he been punished enough professionally already???

Of course. My post was a jest. Can you think of another posting that would be more meaningless with no hope of success? Good way to make him release.

 

[Remius]

Of course. My post was a jest. Can you think of another posting that would be more meaningless with no hope of success? Good way to make him release.

DGen ARes.

 

[daftandbarmy]

DGen ARes.

Kind of like....

 

[singh1947]

Possibly, @Remius I have seen that too over my 30+ years in, but…you also know when there’s something that seems off? You can’t quite describe it precisely, but you sense it? That’s my feeling on this one. There’s something behind this that isn’t being told. There remains no trace back to the original release of the situation HALF A YEAR before Fortin was charged. At the very least, the leaking of information surrounding Fortin’s suspension from PHAC and the “as yet to be confirmed charges” stinks…there are only so many people who knew what was going on regarding actions/decisions about Fortin. I have a very hard time believing this was a me too thing.

The unfortunate part here is two people’s lives have been directly impacted negatively: Fortin (and his family) and the unidentified victim, whom I believe did suffer a sexual assault, but that she is unlikely to find any kind of closure with what has unfolded. I get the feeling that behind closed doors somewhere, she is being described as ‘collateral damage’, and that’s not right either.

I think they just wanted a woman heading the vaccine thing.

 

[Remius]

I think they just wanted a woman heading the vaccine thing.

Then they could have just named one.

 

[Good2Golf]

I think they just wanted a woman heading the vaccine thing.

I disagree. I believe if that was the case, they would have assigned (then) MGen Jennie Carignan to PHAC first. BGen Krista Brodie was already a deputy to MGen Fortin, so when he was pulled, she filled in. If a gender point was going to be made, it would have been made with the first secondment to PHAC, not a replacement.

 

[OldSolduer]

I wish there would be a deep dive on how this all came to be…there is an element of nefarious convenience (a 1988 event that pops up in 2021, during a burnt ground surge through DND) that seems difficult to not consider. What really makes it difficult to blindly accept as just the way things unfolded, is that you have someone at the top of the pyramid who, to qualify with the word ‘allegedly,’ paid hush money to a woman/family whom he was allegedly reported to have inappropriately treated respectfully. Yes, there are other cases out there of CAF leaders conducting themselves inappropriately and being dealt with, but there seems something off about this one.

Sir I smelt a rat from the beginning of this sordid affair and I think it originated in the upper echelons of DND, Not the CAF.

Someone swore revenge a long time ago and the time was ripe.

 

[futurepensioner]

Unfortunate is putting it lightly. I hope Fortin sues the pants off the Govt.

Sues them for what??

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Sues them for what??

Oh use your imagination.

He is gonna get the Norman treatment 😁

 

[futurepensioner]

Oh use your imagination.

He is gonna get the Norman treatment 😁

Well... let's see. He was accused of doing something, he was suspended WITH PAY while it was investigated, he was charged, prosecuted and found not guilty.

Unless I am missing something, he has no grounds to sue anyone.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Well... let's see. He was accused of doing something, he was suspended WITH PAY while it was investigated, he was charged, prosecuted and found not guilty.

Unless I am missing something, he has no grounds to sue anyone.

Norman was paid while he was investigated and charged 😉

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

@futurepensioner

You can read about it here:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-norman-retiring-1.5191111

 

[futurepensioner]

Norman was paid while he was investigated and charged 😉

Yes - bu his was a different case. It was found that people were not truthful in the ways they acted and therefore gave rise to "negligence" in the way things rolled out.

Fortin is no different than anyone else who gets charged with a crime and gets found not guilty.

 

[OldSolduer]

Both these officers were treated shabbily and basically had their careers ended. "Ethics" are only for the rank and file, not the upper echelons of government.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Yes - bu his was a different case. It was found that people were not truthful in the ways they acted and therefore gave rise to "negligence" in the way things rolled out.

Fortin is no different than anyone else who gets convicted of a crime and gets found not guilty.

Oh?!

I didn't know you were intimately familiar with the disclosure(s) in both cases, I guess I'll exit stage right.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Being found not guilty is exactly why he can sue 😉. It's called "Malicious Prosecution".

 

[btrudy]

Oh?!

I didn't know you were intimately familiar with the disclosure(s) in both cases, I guess I'll exit stage right.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Being found not guilty is exactly why he can sue 😉. It's called "Malicious Prosecution".

My dude, you're the one proposing that Fortin's got something to sue over.

You're the one making the claim that he's got grounds to sue the Crown, you're the one who needs to provide evidence of the wrongdoing in order to support said claim.

The prosecution actually needs to be malicious for that to be the case. Just because someone wasn't found guilty does not mean that the prosecution was malicious.

Both these officers were treated shabbily and basically had their careers ended. "Ethics" are only for the rank and file, not the upper echelons of government.

Literally no one at the Flag / General officer level can reasonably be described as "rank and file". They are the upper echelons of government.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Oh?!

I didn't know you were intimately familiar with the disclosure(s) in both cases, I guess I'll exit stage right.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Being found not guilty is exactly why he can sue 😉. It's called "Malicious Prosecution".

I'm not sure you can unless you can prove some kind of 'malicious" intent.

Where I think he might have sone kind of digging to do is why, when the accuser part way through the trial said that she thought it was him from the French accent, the Judge didn't clear the courtroom, call the prosecution up to the docket, and unabashedly berate them for 30 minutes for wasting the courts time.

No charge, without some kind of juice behind it, is going to court from "the accent".

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

My dude, you're the one proposing that Fortin's got something to sue over.

You're the one making the claim that he's got grounds to sue the Crown, you're the one who needs to provide evidence of the wrongdoing in order to support said claim.

The prosecution actually needs to be malicious for that to be the case. Just because someone wasn't found guilty does not mean that the prosecution was malicious.



Literally no one at the Flag / General officer level can reasonably be described as "rank and file". They are the upper echelons of government.

Time will tell what happens 😉

 

[lenaitch]

There's a fair bit of case law on Malicious Prosecution that has established the four areas that have to be established (tort law, so 'balance of probabilitity'):

1. That the Defendant [Crown in this case] initiated the prosecution.
2. That the criminal proceeding was terminated in favour of the Plaintiff.
3. That there was an absence of reasonable and probable grounds to initiate the charge.
4. That the charge was motivated by malice, or a primary purpose other than that of carrying the criminal law into effect.

I my mind, #4 is the biggie and would be the toughest to prove. Pretty high bar.

There is also a related area action for 'negligent investigation'. I don't think there's as much case law on it but the one analysis I read suggested that the bar is equally high.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yes - bu his was a different case. It was found that people were not truthful in the ways they acted and therefore gave rise to "negligence" in the way things rolled out.

Fortin is no different than anyone else who gets charged with a crime and gets found not guilty.

So you have no trouble with the guilty until proven innocent treatment? Getting paid while being treated as guilty is ok as a baseline for you?