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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Ping Monkey

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This is like adding gasoline to the fire...

Not good.

Ottawa May 31, 2022 – In its Final Report into a Public Interest Investigation (PII) publicly released today, the Military Police Complaints Commission (MPCC) has called on the head of the Military Police to apologize to a female Officer Cadet and to the family of a male Officer Cadet for failures in its investigations into incidents involving criminal harassment and mental health issues which occurred at the Royal Military College of Canada (RMCC).

The PII was related to interactions between two Officer Cadets. In March 2019, a female Officer Cadet at RMCC alleged that a male counterpart was harassing her. She told a member of the Military Police (MP) at the Kingston, Ontario, MP detachment that the male Officer Cadet had an obvious mental illness and that she feared for her safety.

Two months later, the male Officer Cadet alleged that he had given money to the female Officer Cadet, expecting a romantic relationship would develop, but that this had not happened. The MP member who interviewed him told him that he would “probably” face criminal charges for soliciting a sexual service. The male Officer Cadet subsequently attempted suicide. Following a second suicide attempt, he was put on life support. While he has been discharged, he remains medically compromised.

The Military Police did not lay any charges in connection with the incidents.

 

Navy_Pete

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The whole point of going to a military college is to be put in positions of progressively more authority to develop your leadership skills before you lead troops. Maybe the problem is that there needs to be oversight and people who abuse their authority need to be dealt with harshly up to and including release, if warranted.
And yet, ROTP and DEO recruits get none of that and manage. From what I could tell working alongside RMC grads, they had as much relevant and practical experience as we did (which is to say, very little to none). Everyone starts with the same small party tasking etc on basic up to the running the sections and recruit platoon, so that's more directly relevant and useful.

We give everyone annual performance reviews, so someone should be able to do a clear comparison of the performance over time to see if it actually makes a difference, but as far as I can tell working with people the performance has nothing to do with the stream they joined under and more to do with the individual.

You have folks joining up later that were entrepreneurs, managers etc that have a lot more life skills that directly transfer into the same kind of skills needed to lead troops much better than getting a team to build some crappy stand or set up some mod tents.

I think it's a lot of theoretical benefits and a bit of mythos around the tradition vice any real tangible benefits personally. High performers are going to be high performers regardless of where they went to school. 🤷‍♂️
 

rmc_wannabe

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And RESO Officers, and Gold Star Cadets etc etc etc
Makes me wonder if it's a matter of pedigree, vice ability/performance, that keeps the RMC "Ring Knocker" cliché alive.

I didn't see it as prevalent when I was working with the U.S. military, but it makes me wonder if this is just certain folks having a chip on their shoulder, as we draw our officer pool from many sources. A self imposed "us and them" that serves no real purpose.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Makes me wonder if it's a matter of pedigree, vice ability/performance, that keeps the RMC "Ring Knocker" cliché alive.

I didn't see it as prevalent when I was working with the U.S. military, but it makes me wonder if this is just certain folks having a chip on their shoulder, as we draw our officer pool from many sources. A self imposed "us and them" that serves no real purpose.
Where I work, we have a mix of all possible streams- RMC, ROTP, DEO and even a few CEOTPs.

I don’t see a big difference in officership based on entry scheme. Near as I can tell, it comes down to the inherent traits that the Officer brought to the CAF.

I other words, if we select well, treat people well, lead and guide them properly, what the entry scheme is does not seem to be a differentiator- at least where I work.
 

FJAG

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And yet, ROTP and DEO recruits get none of that and manage.
I came through the OCTP stream and during what would now be the equivalent of Phase 4 arty training and our first year in the regiment, there wasn't a whiff of difference between us and our RMC counterparts in what we brought to the table as junior leaders and in technical competence.

My basic officer training, including BOTC and basic artillery training, was 11 months. If you can't teach a young man the fundamentals of leadership and their core classification competencies in all that time then you're just not doing it right. Four years spent siting in a classroom is a tremendous waste of a young persons most formative years that would be better spent in contact with their troops and practicing their profession. Six months leading a rifle platoon or a gun troop with a good NCO by your side is worth a decade of being a martinet in the halls of RMC.

$.02

🍻
 

dimsum

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Where I work, we have a mix of all possible streams- RMC, ROTP, DEO and even a few CEOTPs.

I don’t see a big difference in officership based on entry scheme. Near as I can tell, it comes down to the inherent traits that the Officer brought to the CAF.

I other words, if we select well, treat people well, lead and guide them properly, what the entry scheme is does not seem to be a differentiator- at least where I work.
Agreed.

Some of the best people I've worked with/for were RMC grads.

Some of the worst people I've worked with/for were RMC grads.
 

Ostrozac

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One of the best arguments that RMC had going for it over other commissioning plans was that it created bilingual officers early in their career, saving the traditional and expensive practice of pulling your best leaders out of units mid-career so that they learn enough language skill to promote. That premise was challenged directly on page 226 of the report, where Madame Arbour pointed out just how few people at RMC seemed willing or capable of functioning in French.
 

Navy_Pete

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Makes me wonder if it's a matter of pedigree, vice ability/performance, that keeps the RMC "Ring Knocker" cliché alive.

I didn't see it as prevalent when I was working with the U.S. military, but it makes me wonder if this is just certain folks having a chip on their shoulder, as we draw our officer pool from many sources. A self imposed "us and them" that serves no real purpose.
I was in a meeting once where someone actually knocked their ring on the table to interject a point; I'm not sure if it was intentional but there was a few of us laughing at them fairly openly until we could get ourselves under control; I thought it was just an absurd stereotype but not something that would actually happen, especially when they weren't being ironic or something as a joke.

Probably a good example of the worse kind of RMC grad, but probably would have just been a bit insufferable in a different way if they had gone somewhere else (or might just have knocked a grad ring from whatever university they went to instead).

When we are so strapped for people, tying up a lot working as instructors, divOs etc to deliver an undergrad program doesn't make sense to me, when we have all kinds of excellent universities in Canada that do it better for cheaper. The infrastructure required to deliver a university program for a school with less students than my high school is a bit mind boggling. Our actual training establishments for trades training are usually strapped for people and resources, so I think we'd be better off using that and just focusing on the core military trades training. Along those lines, lots of relevant core technical trades that can be delivered in partnership with different colleges, which we've pulled away from.
 

rmc_wannabe

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rmc_wannabe

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Or that two crazy people should not get together…
That is always true. They bothbwere very toxic people to be clear. The only issue I saw was that Ms. Heard was by far the worse of the two of them. She also got a pass because, in her own words "no one is going to believe you" because ...well.... men don't get abused right?
 

daftandbarmy

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I wouldn't say that. I would say it opens up the #MeToo doors to men. They have a pretty public and landmark case to say they can be victims of domestic violence or abusive partners too.

And beating up her husband didn't even stop Julie Payette from becoming Governor General. Now that's progress, right? ;)

2011 assault charge on Payette against ex-husband Flynn​

The online political publication iPolitics has reported that Governor General Designate Julie Payette was charged in 2011 with second-degree assault on her husband at the time, former RCAF colonel Billie Flynn. Payette told iPolitics the charge was “unfounded” and has since been expunged. The Prime Minister’s Office is said to be refusing to confirm it had prior knowledge. The alleged offence took place on November 24, 2011 in Piney Point, Maryland, where Payette was living with Flynn.

 

daftandbarmy

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All it takes is one person to…you know…shit the bed.

Mr Hankey Christmas GIF by South Park
 

lenaitch

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I was in a meeting once where someone actually knocked their ring on the table to interject a point; I'm not sure if it was intentional but there was a few of us laughing at them fairly openly until we could get ourselves under control; I thought it was just an absurd stereotype but not something that would actually happen, especially when they weren't being ironic or something as a joke.
Reminds me of bygone days in the Ontario public service and Mason rings.
 
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