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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Lumber

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Does anyone have any insight into recommendation 11? They don't want us reporting sexual misconduct, and in fact recommend that "Consideration should be given to abolishing the duty to report for all infractions under the Code of Service Discipline."? So is be allowed to see a sailor stealing/harassing/scarily assaulting and I wouldn't have a duty to report it?
 

GK .Dundas

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Interesting comments.

Do you happen to know who the current (and one of the most outspoken for the College to remain open) Presidents of the RMC Alumni Association is? 🤔
I know about 3 or 4 graduates and a couple whomI have spoken to are livid about some of the stories.that have come out . One of whom thinks the death penalty doesn't go far enough.
Mind you he has a grand daughter who is talking about going to RMC.
And yes I know who she is and I don't want to see it close either . I just want it to clean up it's collective act.
 
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btrudy

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Does anyone have any insight into recommendation 11? They don't want us reporting sexual misconduct, and in fact recommend that "Consideration should be given to abolishing the duty to report for all infractions under the Code of Service Discipline."? So is be allowed to see a sailor stealing/harassing/scarily assaulting and I wouldn't have a duty to report it?

It should be a victim's choice of whether or not the incident be reported officially. Many many people feel like the investigation only serves to re-victimize them. Simply confiding in someone that you were assaulted shouldn't ever take the choice of whether or not the incident is reported out of their hands.
 

Lumber

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It should be a victim's choice of whether or not the incident be reported officially. Many many people feel like the investigation only serves to re-victimize them. Simply confiding in someone that you were assaulted shouldn't ever take the choice of whether or not the incident is reported out of their hands.
Ok fine I can buy that in some minor cases where there is a victim to retraumatize, but:
1. If someone is violently raped, I need to report that to ensure that the rest of my unit is safe; and
2. How is this justified in cases where there is no victim?
 

Good2Golf

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I know about 3 or 4 graduates and a couple who I have spoken to are livid about some of the stories.that come out . One of whom thinks the death penalty doesn't go far enough.
Mind you he has a grand daughter who is talking about going to RMC.
I don’t doubt it, my son also experienced poor conduct there, but not always internal, and definitely not all from the currently-trending white male cause.

Proponency to keep RMC open, like my son’s experiences, does not always lead back to white males.
 

Blackadder1916

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RMC demographics are no where near the same demographics that civy U has.

4th year students at Civy U have no authority over 1st year students at civy U

There is more than just a marginal difference.

And that is probably the reason for this recommendation in the Arbour report.

Recommendation #28: The Cadet Wing responsibility and authority command structure should be eliminated.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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And that is probably the reason for this recommendation in the Arbour report.

Recommendation #28: The Cadet Wing responsibility and authority command structure should be eliminated.
Cadets have zero authority at RMC. Anything a Cadet does, including sanctions, requires Staff Approval. If staff screw up and don't do their job or use common sense, that's on them.
 

OldSolduer

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I don’t doubt it, my son also experienced poor conduct there, but not always internal, and definitely not all from the currently-trending white male cause.

Proponency to keep RMC open, like my son’s experiences, does not always lead back to white males.
There is poor conduct examples at every school, unit etc. There are some people who are toxic but for whatever reason they are rarely reigned in.
 

Eaglelord17

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And that is probably the reason for this recommendation in the Arbour report.

Recommendation #28: The Cadet Wing responsibility and authority command structure should be eliminated.
The question being when do we start placing people in positions of authority then?

It seems to me a lot of our issues stem from the fact we are failing to train and prepare people, defaulting to higher and higher ranks for things that were done at much lower levels in the past. This in turn increases how risk adverse we are and results in less and less prepared people. Look at the Russians right now to see where that gets us.
 

daftandbarmy

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It should be a victim's choice of whether or not the incident be reported officially. Many many people feel like the investigation only serves to re-victimize them. Simply confiding in someone that you were assaulted shouldn't ever take the choice of whether or not the incident is reported out of their hands.

OK, so let me get this straight:

Soldier A punches Soldier B in the Mess in a drunken brawl. This must be reported.

Soldier A sexually assaults Soldier B in the Mess. This must not be reported unless the alleged victim wants it reported.
...

Just wondering...
 

Ostrozac

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Don't go to messes.
There is case law that you can be ordered to go the mess, so that isn’t always an option. The future of messes is certainly one aspect of our culture that does need to be addressed; for an institution that was widely believed to have been in decline for decades, messes do seem to show up with frequency in court martial transcripts.
 

daftandbarmy

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There is case law that you can be ordered to go the mess, so that isn’t always an option. The future of messes is certainly one aspect of our culture that does need to be addressed; for an institution that was widely believed to have been in decline for decades, messes do seem to show up with frequency in court martial transcripts.

'The Mess' certainly featured in the only fatality sustained by my old unit since WW2:

Army sergeant dead after fight​


 

rmc_wannabe

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OK, so let me get this straight:

Soldier A punches Soldier B in the Mess in a drunken brawl. This must be reported.

Soldier A sexually assaults Soldier B in the Mess. This must not be reported unless the alleged victim wants it reported.
...

Just wondering...
In one case, Soldier B will not be grilled, questioned, brought into their previous experiences with being punched, asked what they were wearing when they got punched, asked if they were maybe getting punched consensually, or if they maybe enjoyed getting punched, etc. during cross examination.

Sexual assault is awful as it is. The process of getting a conviction for a perpetrator can be even worse for a survivor, and even that is not guaranteed. By enforcing the Duty to Report, you take away the option of the survivor to decide of that is an ordeal they want to go through; a lot of them k ow the statistics and going g to trial may not be what helps them heal and move forward after the event and can re traumatized them.

The Sexual Violence First Responder course that Survivor Perspectives ran for us went I to great detail about this and stated priority numero uno in SA situations is supporting the victim; it runs counter to everything we do in the military, where Duty to Report and wanting to right a wrong are core to our "Never Pass a Fault" mentality.

This recommendation I think will do a better job of letting survivors drive the bus in their own recovery, instead of us having to retraumatize someone in the pursuit of "justice"
 

lenaitch

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I wonder how practical that will be on a two way range? Which police department? Pembroke OPP? SQ? RCMP?

I can also just about guarantee a Charter challenge from the defence lawyer of first service member charged overseas, on the basis of extra-territoriality. What if the host nation asserts jurisdiction and it is a place like Afghanistan? Then what?

I fail to see how this is going to work overseas, without some unintended consequences.
If the numbers in a previous post are correct - about 30 per year - it would seem that those that might occur out-of-country will be measured in the ones or twos; but the potential needs to be considered. The time lapse between occurrence and the parachuting in of a civilian investigator might have a negative impact on the victim, particularly if the perpetrator is not in custody. Depending on the nature of the offence, the evidence might include biological samples that one would hope CAF personnel would have the expertise to collect and preserve.

I'm not that familiar with the provisions of the NDA or extra-territorial application of the Criminal Code, but if a civilian investigator needs to obtain judicial authorization to obtain evidence (search warrant, production order, etc.) from whom would they obtain it?

Who is assigned? RCMP federal policing? Police service/detachment? Which one? If it is a non-RCMP police service, travel authorities (as well as who's paying) can take time to sort out.

Again, the numbers may not be large, but figuring it out beforehand will prevent a deer-in-the-headlights response.
 

daftandbarmy

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In one case, Soldier B will not be grilled, questioned, brought into their previous experiences with being punched, asked what they were wearing when they got punched, asked if they were maybe getting punched consensually, or if they maybe enjoyed getting punched, etc. during cross examination.

Sexual assault is awful as it is. The process of getting a conviction for a perpetrator can be even worse for a survivor, and even that is not guaranteed. By enforcing the Duty to Report, you take away the option of the survivor to decide of that is an ordeal they want to go through; a lot of them k ow the statistics and going g to trial may not be what helps them heal and move forward after the event and can re traumatized them.

The Sexual Violence First Responder course that Survivor Perspectives ran for us went I to great detail about this and stated priority numero uno in SA situations is supporting the victim; it runs counter to everything we do in the military, where Duty to Report and wanting to right a wrong are core to our "Never Pass a Fault" mentality.

This recommendation I think will do a better job of letting survivors drive the bus in their own recovery, instead of us having to retraumatize someone in the pursuit of "justice"

I get that.

It's just that, in my limited experience with the subject, sexual predators tend to terrorize their victims to ensure they don't report anything 'or else', you know, they'll kill them and their families (this was the situation with one particular incident as I recall).

In this case another soldier reported the sexual assault, the poor victim was released from Hell, and the perp charged and jailed. We would never have found out otherwise, I'm sure.

Again, I'm no expert, but it bears thinking about...
 

TCM621

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And that is probably the reason for this recommendation in the Arbour report.

Recommendation #28: The Cadet Wing responsibility and authority command structure should be eliminated.
The whole point of going to a military college is to be put in positions of progressively more authority to develop your leadership skills before you lead troops. Maybe the problem is that there needs to be oversight and people who abuse their authority need to be dealt with harshly up to and including release, if warranted.
 

rmc_wannabe

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The whole point of going to a military college is to be put in positions of progressively more authority to develop your leadership skills before you lead troops. Maybe the problem is that there needs to be oversight and people who abuse their authority need to be dealt with harshly up to and including release, if warranted.
Crawl, Walk, Run.

Being in charge of muster parades, attendance, Dress, Drill, Deportment.... 100 percent crawl tasks thar should be put onto Senior Cadets.

Having to initiate responses for SA, Harrassment, Mental Health issues, suicide, and any number of "oh shit" instances as a Senior Cadet? Fucking nope. Those are full on sprint scenarios that require experienced leadership and mentoring to step in.

There is policing your own, and then there's this Lord of the Flies shit that has been going on at RMC for too long. It needs to stop.
 
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