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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Eaglelord17

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I personally think sending all Sexual Assault and Harassment cases to the civilian police will be a mistake. What people forget is civilian police aren’t necessarily better at handling it (plenty of cases civvy side which are dismissed, screwed up, or considered low priority). Having dealt with the MPs in relation to this they were exceptionally professional and willing to investigate.

I could see cases above a certain rank going the civilian route just for impartiality reasons, but for the rank and file our system as it stands works quite well.
 

rmc_wannabe

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Did I miss the part where they explain who will investigate on deployed operations?
Says essentially that on deployed operations, MPs will secure the scene and evidence until such time as a a civilian investigation can be initiated.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Says essentially that on deployed operations, MPs will secure the scene and evidence until such time as a a civilian investigation can be initiated.
I wonder how practical that will be on a two way range? Which police department? Pembroke OPP? SQ? RCMP?

I can also just about guarantee a Charter challenge from the defence lawyer of first service member charged overseas, on the basis of extra-territoriality. What if the host nation asserts jurisdiction and it is a place like Afghanistan? Then what?

I fail to see how this is going to work overseas, without some unintended consequences.
 

rmc_wannabe

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I wonder how practical that will be on a two way range? Which police department? Pembroke OPP? SQ? RCMP?

I can also just about guarantee a Charter challenge from the defence lawyer of first service member charged overseas, on the basis of extra-territoriality. What if the host nation asserts jurisdiction and it is a place like Afghanistan? Then what?

I fail to see how this is going to work overseas, without some unintended consequences.
Forget Afghanistan, some of the countries we have a SoFA with are ones I wouldn't want investigating a traffic incident, let alone a SA. The fact one can make a speeding ticket disappear with 450 zloty while in Poland (a nation with terrible human rights infringements on LGBTQ2IA+ folk, women, and minorities) means I have very little confidence in their ability to investigate an SA impartially.

Unless the RCMP is going to get a carte blanche to pop on out to whatever shit hole we hang out hat to investigate after the MPs collect evidence, I don't see it being practical or beneficial. What should have happened in that report is a recommendation to have the CAF PM report directly to the Justice Minister/Minister of Public Safety . That would take away the inference that the MP Group is influenced/Manipulated by the CoC, because they are removed from it.

Without changes to the NDA and the CCC, and having those means tested by the SCC, I don't foresee this recommendation working.
 

dapaterson

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Jurisdiction of Civil Courts​

Marginal note:Offences committed outside Canada

273 Where a person subject to the Code of Service Discipline does any act or omits to do anything while outside Canada which, if done or omitted in Canada by that person, would be an offence punishable by a civil court, that offence is within the competence of, and may be tried and punished by, a civil court having jurisdiction in respect of such an offence in the place in Canada where that person is found in the same manner as if the offence had been committed in that place, or by any other court to which jurisdiction has been lawfully transferred.

  • R.S., c. N-4, s. 231
 

WLSC

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Forget Afghanistan, some of the countries we have a SoFA with are ones I wouldn't want investigating a traffic incident, let alone a SA. The fact one can make a speeding ticket disappear with 450 zloty while in Poland (a nation with terrible human rights infringements on LGBTQ2IA+ folk, women, and minorities) means I have very little confidence in their ability to investigate an SA impartially.

Unless the RCMP is going to get a carte blanche to pop on out to whatever shit hole we hang out hat to investigate after the MPs collect evidence, I don't see it being practical or beneficial. What should have happened in that report is a recommendation to have the CAF PM report directly to the Justice Minister/Minister of Public Safety . That would take away the inference that the MP Group is influenced/Manipulated by the CoC, because they are removed from it.

Without changes to the NDA and the CCC, and having those means tested by the SCC, I don't foresee this recommendation working.
I would have gone further. Bring back the military prevoty for military task and bring the RCMP in for the rest. That would solve all the CoC (perceptions of not) influence out. If I remember well, it was similar to that during WW2.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Right- not arguing that part of the NDA, but alot of things can happen to taint an investigation overseas, without a dedicated, on scene investigative capability.
 

dapaterson

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The paucity of reported OUTCAN / deployed incidents suggest this is a minor issue. Not to downplay it, but fewer than one case a year
 

btrudy

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More of the usual

Report calls on head of military police to apologize for how it handled investigation
The Military Police Complaints Commission has called on the head of the military police to apologize to a female Royal Military College of Canada cadet officer and to the family of a male cadet officer who harassed her while dealing with mental health issues.

The investigation looked into incidents in March 2019 when the female officer cadet accused the male cadet of harassing her.

She told military police in Kingston she believed the man was suffering from “obvious mental illness” and that she feared for her safety.

Two months later, the male cadet said he gave the female cadet money in return for a romantic relationship.

Police then told him he’d probably face criminal charges for trying to solicit a sexual service.

The cadet attempted suicide twice and survived. One of the times landed him on life support and he is still living with the effects.
 

daftandbarmy

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The paucity of reported OUTCAN / deployed incidents suggest this is a minor issue. Not to downplay it, but fewer than one case a year

Probably more like trying to avoid international embarrassment by:

braxton family values GIF by WE tv
 

btrudy

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Harassment isn't unique to RMC, this kind of crap happens in every college and university across Canada.

Well yeah, it's also not unique to RMC, this kind of crap happens in every CAF unit across Canada.

Hence the thread.
 

rmc_wannabe

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Harassment isn't unique to RMC, this kind of crap happens in every college and university across Canada.
It isn't unique to RMC, however, these folks aren't just braindead students who Mommy and Daddy paid to go to their Alma Mater; these are professional soldiers who are receiving an education, paid for by the Canadian taxpayer.

One would expect people at a Military Academy to not be involved in "School of Hard Knockers" shenanigans, but history has shown otherwise.
 

Quirky

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professional soldiers

That's a bold claim for college officer cadets. They are not yet professionals and not even close to being called a soldier. There is a marginal and insignificant difference between a RMC cadet and your average college student.
 

rmc_wannabe

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That's a bold claim for college officer cadets. They are not yet professionals and not even close to being called a soldier. There is a marginal and insignificant difference between a RMC cadet and your average college student.
If they're in receipt of pay and allowances, wear the uniform of the CAF, and are held to the same rules and regulations as the rest of us, they're professional soldiers. I think half the problems we have seen out of RMC have been because people aren't holding them to account because "they're just students..."

I am working at another school here in Kingston. I can say with confidence that the "students" here will not get a pass on things because of that status. We have Administrative and Disciplinary measures for a reason. If RMC doesn't want to apply them because "student," you reap what you sow.
 

GK .Dundas

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Part of the problem is the pressure applied by the Old Boys Network (TM.) Some of who are are on campus.
Ironically most of them probably wouldn't have behaved in such a fashion
And if they had would have found themselves on bus trying to think of an explanation for their families.
 

Remius

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RMC demographics are no where near the same demographics that civy U has.

4th year students at Civy U have no authority over 1st year students at civy U

There is more than just a marginal difference.
 

Good2Golf

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Part of the problem is the pressure applied by the Old Boys Network (TM.) Some of who are are on campus.
Ironically most of them probably wouldn't have behaved in such a fashion
And if they had would have found themselves on bus trying to think of an explanation for their families.

Interesting comments.

Do you happen to know who the current (and one of the most outspoken for the College to remain open) Presidents of the RMC Alumni Association is? 🤔
 

OldSolduer

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I have very little knowledge on how RMC works but if I may offer the following advice:

For those of you that are still in please don't go off half cocked. By that I mean any incident needs a thorough investigation before charges are laid or whatever COA you take.

Careers and lives have been ruined over rumor, innuendo and false allegations.
 

daftandbarmy

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I have very little knowledge on how RMC works but if I may offer the following advice:

For those of you that are still in please don't go off half cocked. By that I mean any incident needs a thorough investigation before charges are laid or whatever COA you take.

Careers and lives have been ruined over rumor, innuendo and false allegations.

Mark Norman knows....

Top Canadian military commander Mark Norman relieved of post​

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, the second-in-command of Canada’s military, has been relieved of his post.​

 
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