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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

dimsum

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Name me another federal department with this much folly.
If the same things happened in Global Affairs Canada or Agriculture Canada (just picking two random depts), would the media latch onto it as much?

The CAF gets heat and light on anything they do. It is totally possible that other departments have just as bad of an issue, but because it's not a political football, no one cares.
 

Kilted

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Unfair? No, sorry. Name me another federal department with this much folly. This is a CAF related site discussing a CAF story(68 pages worth right now) involving numerous CAF members. It’s CAF or we’re all in denial
The CAF can't be responsible for what retired members do, the Code of Service Disciple doesn't extend that far. Only someone who doesn't do their research could actually believe that the CAF was responsible for that individual being put in that position. If the military was responsible for the actions of every civilian organization that has anything to do with the military I'm sure they would have tried to have this site shut down years ago just over the fears of someone making an unwanted post.
 

CBH99

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Very well said Seaking.

What Haggis said was perfectly fair. The program isn’t funded, staffed, or run by the military. It has no official relationship to the CAF or DND.

The individual who hired him wasn’t a CAF member. She was a doctor. Let’s take whatever wins we can these days, this isn’t on the CAF.
 

daftandbarmy

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If the same things happened in Global Affairs Canada or Agriculture Canada (just picking two random depts), would the media latch onto it as much?

The CAF gets heat and light on anything they do. It is totally possible that other departments have just as bad of an issue, but because it's not a political football, no one cares.

I've worked with alot of public sector and private sector agencies over the past 20+ years, and none of them are like the CAF.

Apart from the fact that their jobs are not to be ready to kill evil doers etc, their workforces are far more diverse and integrated (visible minorities, gender balanced etc) and therefore more representative of the populations they serve, in general. They continually and consciously strive to do better at this too and tend not to make excuses. They all have made good progress, based on my outsider's point of view.

And, while I know that they all struggle with issues similar to those that the CAF is experiencing, they punish/fire bad actors for much less than I've seen tolerated regularly in military organizations, 'high performers' or otherwise. Us? We appear to prefer to protect and promote our problem people.

We get the 'heat and light' mainly because we really suck at alot of this stuff, don't seem to be able to have any control over the situation, and make excuses and cover things up rather than accept responsibility and take action.
 

QV

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One has to wonder how a doctor, being mindful of who was attending the program and who she was caring for, would hire a registered sex offender as a mentor. Like WTF...

And I realize I need to tread lightly when saying this, so please everybody - understand I don’t say this in a sexist way. But I am EXTREMELY surprised that a female doctor, helping female sexual assault victims, would make that call. And then try to protect him.

Just 🤯🤯🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

I do hope this program is rebranded and carries on, genuinely. What a stupid and preventable situation.


Edit - Was he the ONLY applicant for that position? And what were the required qualifications?

Like my mind has just stopped being able to comprehend things lately... I would have hired a beach ball before hiring him. <daily rant over> 😠
Follow the science? Believe all doctors? I jk... :)
 

trigger324

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I think what Haggis is saying is that this program is not run or funded by the CAF- we have no more control over how it is run than we have control over how the Ontario government runs health care (to pick a random example). It has former members of the CAF as its clients, but it also treats paramedics, firefighters and cops. Are their parent departments also responsible?

edited for missing word.
I totally get what he’s saying. But I’ll redirect you to my references above ABOUT the CAF and what’s brought us to this conversation in the first place.
 

trigger324

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If the same things happened in Global Affairs Canada or Agriculture Canada (just picking two random depts), would the media latch onto it as much?

The CAF gets heat and light on anything they do. It is totally possible that other departments have just as bad of an issue, but because it's not a political football, no one cares.
You just proved my point. “IF the same things happened...”. Well, I’m sure they would be.
We’re more visible than Global affairs and Agriculture. Very rightly so should we be looked at harder. And we are. We deserve it.
 

trigger324

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Very well said Seaking.

What Haggis said was perfectly fair. The program isn’t funded, staffed, or run by the military. It has no official relationship to the CAF or DND.

The individual who hired him wasn’t a CAF member. She was a doctor. Let’s take whatever wins we can these days, this isn’t on the CAF.
An approach like this makes us appear to pass blame and try to come out of it looking good. We’re so far gone past that now, Shame on all of us for wanting to take wins over such a terrible sequence of events
 

Halifax Tar

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We cant be responsible when a civilian organization hires a criminal who has left the Forces, under any circumstance.

We can be responsible if we sent our members to this organization for help, prescribing if you will, and didn't properly to vet the organization and this exposed our members to this criminal. But I am not sure this happened here.

Geez this Hamilton fellow looks more and more every day like a good guy who just needed a break.
 

OldSolduer

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An approach like this makes us appear to pass blame and try to come out of it looking good. We’re so far gone past that now, Shame on all of us for wanting to take wins over such a terrible sequence of events
You seem to be the smart one in this room. Solution please?
 

trigger324

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You seem to be the smart one in this room. Solution please?
Well thanks for the compliment. We have a problem in the military. And it’s around Operation Honour or what Operation Honour should have been. I for one think as many spotlights that are possible should be shone on us right now for everything that’s transpired here. Solution? Turn over every single rock that needs to be turned over. From General to Sailor and everyone in between. And John Q Public needs to know everything that’s discovered along the way.
 

OldSolduer

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Well thanks for the compliment. We have a problem in the military. And it’s around Operation Honour or what Operation Honour should have been. I for one think as many spotlights that are possible should be shone on us right now for everything that’s transpired here. Solution? Turn over every single rock that needs to be turned over. From General to Sailor and everyone in between. And John Q Public needs to know everything that’s discovered along the way.
Very idealistic I will give you that. Highly impractical IMO. The resources required would be huge I would guess.

As for OP HONOUR I took it seriously despite the doubts I had about it. Unfortunately it turned out the way I thought it would.
 

trigger324

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Very idealistic I will give you that. Highly impractical IMO. The resources required would be huge I would guess.

As for OP HONOUR I took it seriously despite the doubts I had about it. Unfortunately it turned out the way I thought it would.
And that is why we should pay good attention to reporters, journalists, and all other media from everywhere in the spectrum to keep on investigating and reporting every single bit of information they uncover. It’s been proven “we” will try to cover things up so as to save face, why wouldn’t an avenue such as the media not be beneficial to break that open?
 

SupersonicMax

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As for OP HONOUR I took it seriously despite the doubts I had about it. Unfortunately it turned out the way I thought it would.

Perhaps it wasn't perfect and despite the recent allegations, I certainly believe the CAF made great strides since 2015 on institutional front. We are in a much better place we were even in the early 2010s.
 

daftandbarmy

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Perhaps it wasn't perfect and despite the recent allegations, I certainly believe the CAF made great strides since 2015 on institutional front. We are in a much better place we were even in the early 2010s.

Hes Right GIF by moodman
 

SeaKingTacco

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Well thanks for the compliment. We have a problem in the military. And it’s around Operation Honour or what Operation Honour should have been. I for one think as many spotlights that are possible should be shone on us right now for everything that’s transpired here. Solution? Turn over every single rock that needs to be turned over. From General to Sailor and everyone in between. And John Q Public needs to know everything that’s discovered along the way.
Great, but what does that have to do with a news report about an agency that is NEITHER funded by NOR associated with/controlled by the CAF making questionable decisions about how to treat survivors of sexual assault? What would you like the A/CDS to do? Apologize for something we did not do and had no control over? Send an infantry company to shut the place down? I do not see the nexus, but perhaps I am missing your point.

If you are saying that this is just part of the larger story about sexual misconduct, then I would agree. It is all related.
 

OldSolduer

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And that is why we should pay good attention to reporters, journalists, and all other media from everywhere in the spectrum to keep on investigating and reporting every single bit of information they uncover. It’s been proven “we” will try to cover things up so as to save face, why wouldn’t an avenue such as the media not be beneficial to break that open?
Be careful what you wish for. There are going to be innocent people caught up in that. Careers and lives ruined over rumours and innuendo, is that what we want?

There's a "journalist" who works for the local paper here that never writes about anything but the police, military or corrections and NEVER in a positive light. Bias at its best while claiming "freedom of the press".
 

trigger324

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Great, but what does that have to do with a news report about an agency that is NEITHER funded by NOR associated with/controlled by the CAF making questionable decisions about how to treat survivors of sexual assault? What would you like the A/CDS to do? Apologize for something we did not do and had no control over? Send an infantry company to shut the place down? I do not see the nexus, but perhaps I am missing your point.

If you are saying that this is just part of the larger story about sexual misconduct, then I would agree. It is all related.
My point is that this tidbit about PTS and its failings, while NOT part of the CAF, yet brought into the story because of the player involved(Hamilton), is in fact part of the larger story about sexual misconduct, and thus, is indeed related.
 

SeaKingTacco

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My point is that this tidbit about PTS and its failings, while NOT part of the CAF, yet brought into the story because of the player involved(Hamilton), is in fact part of the larger story about sexual misconduct, and thus, is indeed related.
Okay, got it. Part of the larger story. With that, I agree.
 
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