• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Kilted

Full Member
Reaction score
106
Points
560
It seems like we are getting a new story every day. I suppose that was bound to happen after the allegations were made against two different CDS's. I'm sure there are many people who were afraid to come forward due to a difference in rank may be less intimidated to come forward now.
 

ArmyRick

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
33
Points
530
Are we at the point where someone convicted of sexual assault can no longer have character references or raise mitigating factors at sentencing? What of due process?
Piss poor judgement call. And I can't believe you would suggest it. The victims? They are sub-human to you?

THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM! Its very bad optics, we are not talking about a drunk driving incident or a bar brawl gone awry, we are talking about a serving soldier who snuck into someone's home and RAPED a fellow soldier. UNACCEPTABLE.

And maybe Major General Dawe (I remember him from the patrcias and he is a hell of good infantry officer) should take a pause and really think about what he has done.

The fact that the victim and her husband were treated like this is really disgusting.
 

ModlrMike

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
228
Points
730
The member asked for a character reference, there was no obligation to give him one. That's the extent of due process I would have ensured in this instance.
 

OldSolduer

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
536
Points
910
CBC report on the news this morning does not flatter the CAF. A few public firings might help once it’s been determined that guilt is established.
 

mariomike

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
191
Points
930
What makes you say it was toxic?
The subject of discussion. Not those discussing it.

Possibly why it finally got locked after 29 pages?

Locked, just like the reprobates cell door...
dileas
tess
milnet.ca staff
When he dies, I suppose it will be noted in his thread. Then immediately re-locked and the key thrown away, without the need for further discussion.
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
257
Points
880
I cant imagine being a member of a command and having faith in that leadership when they give character references for a convicted rapist.


Tarnished Brass Part Deux coming ?
 

Kilted

Full Member
Reaction score
106
Points
560

The article doesn't state how many of those cases occurred during the five-year period and how many were from before. Another thing that I have heard (may be true, may not be, hopefully someone here can confirm or deny this) was that the Op Honour numbers included allegations against cadets (I'm not talking about CIC), and in fact made up a significant percentage of all Op Honour related cases.
 

PuckChaser

Army.ca Fixture
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
294
Points
1,030
Piss poor judgement call. And I can't believe you would suggest it. The victims? They are sub-human to you?
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Rape victims are sub human. Where's my eyeroll emoticon when I need it?

Seeing the accused/offender get fair due process entitled under the law and the Charter of Rights while also ensuring victims feel heard, supported and see justice done should not be mutually exclusive. We are rapidly careening towards what the CAF always does when it has a problem, swing the pendulum so far the other direction without any thought to the consequences we create even more problems.

So what's the solution here? No CAF member can ever make a character statement on behalf of an offender in a sexual misconduct trial? Whats next, can no longer testify for the defense? What if that CAF member is a material witness that could completely exonerate the accused? Does it stop at sexual misconduct? Now no CAF member can testify in a trial ever, for any reason except for the prosecution? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds, or the potential legal problems that arise out of those statements?

At the end of the day, I'm not defending what Hamilton did. I'm glad justice was served and presumably he was released post-haste. There's no place for that behaviour regardless of whatever PTSD excuse people want to use. I can also see why Dawe would want to make a statement on the behalf of an individual who he likely served with on a 2 way range and saw what he perceived were out of character issues. Dawe also went way beyond his loyalty to a friend, and made some pretty tone deaf statements (allegedly, we have one side of the story and no copy of the letter) and swerved outside of his lane of providing a character reference on Hamilton's past performance and character before the incident. I've also heard Dawe speak a few years after this trial, and although he didn't make any direct references, he stated he'd been involved in a sexual misconduct case where he didn't fully support the victim and understood the impact that causes to them and that he had learned from that mistake. It was an odd statement of humility to make (especially from a GOFO to a large group of people), but this article seems like that's the incident he was referring to.
 

McG

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
118
Points
680
Seeing the accused ...
He was not "the accused." He was already convicted. He was unambiguously a sex offender.
If someone as an individual wants to go sit in the trail and testify on thier own behalf that Jon was a nice guy, then they can fill their boots.
There should never have been any letters of support from the the CAF or any part of the CAF.
Neither performance in Kandahar nor PTSD have any bearing in the matter of what Jon did.
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
257
Points
880
He was not "the accused." He was already convicted. He was unambiguously a sex offender.
If someone as an individual wants to go sit in the trail and testify on thier own behalf that Jon was a nice guy, then they can fill their boots.
There should never have been any letters of support from the the CAF or any part of the CAF.
Neither performance in Kandahar nor PTSD have any bearing in the matter of what Jon did.
Agreed. And anyone who wrote those letters or endorsed them should be released, post haste, with the full loss of all retirement benefits including pension and a forfeiture of all awards and decorations bestowed.

We need to treat these cretins the same or worse than those who commit the offenses.
 

Eaglelord17

Sr. Member
Reaction score
68
Points
330
This all just brought me back to thinking of that Reservist Cpl who helped support a female in his regiment who brought up a sexual assault complaint only to be railroaded by his CoC. If I recall correctly his appeal through redress of grievance made it all the way to the CDS where the 2IC agreed with the Cpl but the CDS overruled it. Really makes you wonder if that decision should now be looked at again with all the new information which has come to light, could he file a redress of grievance over a clearly biased judge?

 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
297
Points
880
Agreed. And anyone who wrote those letters or endorsed them should be released, post haste, with the full loss of all retirement benefits including pension and a forfeiture of all awards and decorations bestowed.

We need to treat these cretins the same or worse than those who commit the offenses.
Russell Williams kept his pension after confessing to and being found guilty of murdering one of his own troops.
 
Last edited:

SupersonicMax

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
326
Points
880
Agreed. And anyone who wrote those letters or endorsed them should be released, post haste, with the full loss of all retirement benefits including pension and a forfeiture of all awards and decorations bestowed.

We need to treat these cretins the same or worse than those who commit the offenses.
That's a little extreme isn't it? A lapse in judgement such as this isn't criminal and has no bearing on someone's previous honourable service.
 

Mick

Member
Reaction score
48
Points
380
Another external review by a retired justice.


Interestingly, it appears that MGen Carrignan will be promoted (either to LGen or Lt-Gov🙃), as Chief of Professional Conduct:

"Sajjan also announced the creation of the Chief Professional Conduct and Culture, led by Lt.-Gov. Jennie Carignan, which will function as an internal organization coordinating between branches to establish culture change."
 

dangerboy

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
161
Points
710
In 2015 the Deschamps recommended:
Recommendation No. 3
Create an independent center for accountability for sexual assault and harassment outside of the CAF with the responsibility for receiving reports of inappropriate sexual conduct, as well as prevention, coordination and monitoring of training, victim support, monitoring of accountability, and research, and to act as a central authority for the collection of data.

That was 6 years ago and they are just now addressing this.
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
297
Points
880
Paraphrased question from Mecedes Stephenson to LGen Carignan: "What do you think of this appointment compared to not being appointed Commander of the Army?"
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
1,555
Points
1,060
In 2015 the Deschamps recommended:
Recommendation No. 3
Create an independent center for accountability for sexual assault and harassment outside of the CAF with the responsibility for receiving reports of inappropriate sexual conduct, as well as prevention, coordination and monitoring of training, victim support, monitoring of accountability, and research, and to act as a central authority for the collection of data.

That was 6 years ago and they are just now addressing this.
Bryan Cranston Mic Drop GIF
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
1,555
Points
1,060
Agreed. And anyone who wrote those letters or endorsed them should be released, post haste, with the full loss of all retirement benefits including pension and a forfeiture of all awards and decorations bestowed.

We need to treat these cretins the same or worse than those who commit the offenses.

On the other hand this practise might be encouraged so we can more easily identify the enablers, hoist upon their own petard ;)
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
248
Points
710
Paraphrased question from Mecedes Stephenson to LGen Carignan: "What do you think of this appointment compared to not being appointed Commander of the Army?"
I think the other half of her question was better, she took the minister to task with this announcement. You could clearly see the hamster wheel spinning as he tried to think of an answer as to why this took 6 years.
 
Top