Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF

[mariomike]

 

[Half Full]

But this survey and op honour are not,  IMO,  about helping victims of true sexual abuse. The survey was going to come back bad, we all knew it. I didn't feel I was able to properly express my views because the questions were illiterate to open to interpretation or skewed to a desired response.

Did you think the survey was going to directly help victims?  The survey was commissioned by DND to create an accurate baseline of how severe and widespread the problem was.  We knew it was bad, but we needed a better understanding of the issues so that Operation Honour can evolve and provide specific targeting on those areas where it is most required.  Now in two years when the survey is once again conducted we will be able to see if Operation Honour has had an effect on our culture and specifically on those who are still in denial that this is actually a problem.  DND did not make up the questions, the professionals at Stats Can did after understanding what we were looking for.  We didn't even get to see the results until they were officially released by Stats Can.

 

[beachdown]

Then we have morons like this Judge  :

Federal Court Justice Robin Camp — who asked a woman during a rape trial why she couldn't just keep her knees together — should be removed from the bench, according to a unanimous recommendation from the Canadian Judicial Council's committee of inquiry.

Camp was a provincial court judge at the time of the rape trial in Alberta in 2014, in which he acquitted the accused, and was later promoted to the Federal Court. His comments during the trial and subsequent complaints made with the Canadian Judicial Council led to the inquiry.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/robin-camp-federal-court-judge-inquiry-committee-report-1.3874314

 

[George Wallace]

Did you think the survey was going to directly help victims?  The survey was commissioned by DND to create an accurate baseline of how severe and widespread the problem was.  We knew it was bad, but we needed a better understanding of the issues so that Operation Honour can evolve and provide specific targeting on those areas where it is most required.  Now in two years when the survey is once again conducted we will be able to see if Operation Honour has had an effect on our culture and specifically on those who are still in denial that this is actually a problem.  DND did not make up the questions, the professionals at Stats Can did after understanding what we were looking for.  We didn't even get to see the results until they were officially released by Stats Can.

I think that you may have missed the point.  If the questions were not properly asked and were open to numerous interpretations, nor permitting persons to clarify a position, then the survey is actually worthless as it did not in any way accurately portray the actual situation in relation to this matter.  Having a similar, poorly defined set of questions three years down the road, is NOT going to mean anything, nor prove anything.  Throw in Statistics and you have an even wider field of results.  If we play Devil's Advocate and have someone with a well defined bias and/or an agenda draw up these questions, then you have a very faulty statistical return and inaccurate portrait of the CAF.

 

[McG]

If the questions were not properly asked and were open to numerous interpretations ...

And if the questions were properly asked and were not open to numerous interpretations?

Arguing from the hypothetical is not always the best way to make a case.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I found the latest bystander training way more appropriate and relevant than the Op Honour briefs.

 

[armyvern]

I found the latest bystander training way more appropriate and relevant than the Op Honour briefs.

All reports back to me from our pers who underwent this trg are nothing but good.  A good sign is that we also had lots of volunteers to take the training.

 

[MJP]

All reports back to me from our pers who underwent this trg are nothing but good.  A good sign is that we also had lots of volunteers to take the training.

We have no volunteers....the direction in our world is all will take the trg and quite frankly it is worth it.  This trg is what should have been presented at the forefront of Op HONOUR IMHO.

 

[armyvern]

We have no volunteers....the direction in our world is all will take the trg and quite frankly it is worth it.  This trg is what should have been presented at the forefront of Op HONOUR IMHO.

I'm quite certain that it will eventually be given to all as it should be.  Welcome to my world of "lodger" where numbers were limited and I had to yell, "What do you mean it's full? Don't you think all Units should have at least some qualified before Unit X has ALL qualified and us outside Units have NONE?"  Ergo, they found me a couple of spots to get a couple of mine on the trg. 

 

[bLUE fOX]

Then we have morons like this Judge  :

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/robin-camp-federal-court-judge-inquiry-committee-report-1.3874314

While his choice of words may not have been the best, did you ever read the court transcripts to get the quote in context? Pages 444-445 finds the judge trying to determine the physics of penetration when the female has her fanny in a sink (the word used is passing) and her ankles held together by her pants.

https://www.cjc-ccm.gc.ca/cmslib/general/Camp_Docs/2016-09-08%20Exhibts%20-%20Agreed%20Statement%20of%20Facts.pdf

 

[exgunnertdo]

While his choice of words may not have been the best, did you ever read the court transcripts to get the quote in context? Pages 444-445 finds the judge trying to determine the physics of penetration when the female has her fanny in a sink (the word used is passing) and her ankles held together by her pants.

https://www.cjc-ccm.gc.ca/cmslib/general/Camp_Docs/2016-09-08%20Exhibts%20-%20Agreed%20Statement%20of%20Facts.pdf

You're going to try to defend that in even the smallest way???? While he may have been trying to figure out the physics of penetration, his question was directly along the lines of "why didn't you try harder stop him from raping you?"

All right. Which then leads me to the question: Why not -- why didn't you just sink your bottom down into the basin so he couldn't penetrate you? ... And when your ankles were held together by your jeans, your skinny jeans, why couldn't you just keep your knees together?

He may have been trying to figure out the "mechanics of penetration" at the start, but it wasn't a bad choice of words...he inappropriately moved into blaming her for being raped.

 

[armyvern]

While his choice of words may not have been the best, did you ever read the court transcripts to get the quote in context? Pages 444-445 finds the judge trying to determine the physics of penetration when the female has her fanny in a sink (the word used is passing) and her ankles held together by her pants.

https://www.cjc-ccm.gc.ca/cmslib/general/Camp_Docs/2016-09-08%20Exhibts%20-%20Agreed%20Statement%20of%20Facts.pdf

No defence of him.  I just read the whole thing (transcript).  Her fanny wasn't in the sink --- it was over the sink while her lower back was  onto the spout of the faucet.  Go look at a bathroom sink and see if your butt would actually be IN the sink while your lower back/tailbone (where the medically documented bruising was) laid across the top of the faucet. 

And her pants were actually around one ankle ... not both.

 

[bLUE fOX]

Admittedly, I didn't read the whole transcript and that bit about the sink was pointed out to me by someone else and at the time, while the wording is awful, it didn't seem to me like an unreasonable question, mostly because I was under the impression that both ankles were bound and that she was stuck in the sink similar to the way someone might fall into a toilet (the bathroom sink in my last apartment was stupid huge by the way).

I suppose this goes to show how someone like me can erroneously hand pick information to try and make a point.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I found the latest bystander training way more appropriate and relevant than the Op Honour briefs.

Never heard of this. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Meanwhile ...

Yesterday (30 Nov), Captain David Christensen pleaded guilty to one charge at a standing court martial in Kingston, Ontario and was reduced to the rank of Lieutenant.

The charges related to an act of sexual misconduct against a female member of the Canadian Armed Forces in Kingston, Ontario, on June 10, 2015. 

Quick Facts

    Of the two charges which were preferred by the Director of Military Prosecutions on July 21, 2016 Chief Military Judge, Colonel Mario Dutil:

        stayed one charge of sexual assault under section 130 of the National Defence Act (section 271 Criminal Code of Canada).

        found Lieutenant Christensen guilty of one charge of having behaved in a disgraceful manner under section 93 of the NDA.

    Colonel Dutil sentenced Lieutenant Christensen to a reduction in rank to Lieutenant from Captain.

    A reduction in rank is a significant punishment within the military justice system, and has a direct consequence on the reduced CAF member’s career and pay.

    The CAF takes all allegations of any form of sexual misconduct seriously and is committed to dealing with them as quickly as possible ...

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Meanwhile ...

I will hold my tongue, as this issue hits close to home, but I hope and pray the administrative action system is less forgiving than the judicial system.

Its sickening to think that the price to pay for sexual assaulting a subordinate is $787/month.

 

[beachdown]

......background info

Bystanders are defined as those soldiers that are neither a perpetrator nor a victim. Providing the knowledge of what it means to be an active bystander and supporting those who come forward will serve to assist our soldiers in combatting harmful and inappropriate sexual behaviour (HISB) within our ranks.

Never heard of this.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Tks!

 

[slayer/raptor]

I will hold my tongue, as this issue hits close to home, but I hope and pray the administrative action system is less forgiving than the judicial system.

Its sickening to think that the price to pay for sexual assaulting a subordinate is $787/month.

Careful, the court found him not guilty of sexual assault, but I wasn't there.

Seems that most of the court martials I've read all of them had the sexual assault charge dropped but got charged with acting in a disgraceful manner.

 

[dapaterson]

Careful, the court found him not guilty of sexual assault, but I wasn't there.

No.  The court did not.

The two charges were laid in alternate to each other; he was found guilty of one, and the second was stayed.

http://decisia.jmc-cmj.forces.gc.ca/jmc-cmj/cm/en/item/180717/index.do

Laying of charges in alternative:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-02/ch-107.page#cha-107-05

Findings in the case of charges laid in the alternative:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-02/ch-112.page#cha-112-40

(2) Where offences have been charged in the alternative and the court finds the accused guilty of one of the alternative charges, the court shall:
a.if, on any other alternative charge, the evidence proved the offence, direct that the proceedings be stayed on the charge (see article 112.80 – Effect of a Stay of Proceedings); or
b.if, on any other alternative charge, the evidence does not prove the offence, pronounce a finding of not guilty on the charge.