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Seeking an excuse to spend Defence $$ on a Bombardier plane

MarkOttawa

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Lots more at AvWeek:

GlobalEye AEW&C-Intel Aircraft Detailed
Saab introduces gallium-nitride technology to airborne early warning

http://aviationweek.com/defense/globaleye-aewc-intel-aircraft-detailed

Mark
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MarkOttawa

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USAF JSTARS replacement proceeding:

Bombardier Airframe for New USAF ISR Plane? Part 2
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/mark-collins-bombardier-airframe-for-new-usaf-isr-plane-part-2/

Mark
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CougarKing

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The latest woes for Bombardier:

CBC

Bombardier to suspend Global jet production after missing light rail deadline
Workers at Montreal completion centre will be placed on furlough indefinitely

The Canadian Press Posted: Sep 01, 2016 5:16 PM ET Last Updated: Sep 01, 2016 5:16 PM ET

Bombardier is suspending production of its Global business jets.

Bombardier is juggling challenges on two new fronts in Canada, temporarily suspending business jet production and falling behind in its delivery of a light rail transit prototype for Toronto's Eglinton Crosstown transit line.

The aerospace and railway manufacturer says it plans to place workers at its Global jet completion centre in Montreal on furlough for an unspecified amount of time next year.

"It's a minor adjustment to our completion activities that will be deployed in 2017," spokesman Mark Masluch said Thursday.

He said the change — which follows last year's move to cut production of the Global 5000 and 6000 models from 80 to about 50 per year — will better manage costs and address ongoing sluggishness in the business jet market.

(...SNIPPED)

 

MarkOttawa

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And recently:

Bombardier to Sell Learjet to Cessna-Owner Textron?
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/08/23/mark-collins-bombardier-to-sell-learjet-to-cessna-owner-textron/

Mark
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OldSolduer

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Just a question:

Bombardier were the dunderheads that sold the only profitable division they had....the Ski Doo brand? Am I right?
 

GK .Dundas

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Hamish Seggie said:
Just a question:

Bombardier were the dunderheads that sold the only profitable division they had....the Ski Doo brand? Am I right?
Yes they had to give something the last time they had to be bailed out.........they really do need Adult supervision .
 

CBH99

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I'm finding the older I get, the more my brain is subconsciously forcing me to stop caring so much about a variety of things - for caring seems to equal frustration & bewilderment.

Why can't the government & Bombardier not get it together to make it a more functional, relevant business?  It has so many things going for it, yet it seems to fail at the very things they are supposed to be good at.  But the government could do a lot to be helpful, besides bailing them out of their own mismanagement.


For example...SAR aircraft & MPA.

Two types of aircraft the CF will presumably always use.  Nothing new here, nothing magical.  Neither of this type of aircraft is a new concept in the slightest.

Why can't the government/CF not just say "We need an aircraft that does A, B, C" - and then have Bombardier create a product that does exactly what the government needs.  Boom, sales.  Self sufficiency.  If the product is good, it may gather interest from other countries, and now you have profitability.

If the government says "we need a SAR aircraft that can fly fast to get to an area, but also fly slow once it gets there, and it needs a rear ramp for the deployment of SAR techs, etc etc" - why can't Bombardier JUST PRODUCE WHAT IS BEING LOOKED FOR.

Government gives Bombardier direction on what they require.  Bombardier designs a good product.  Boom - sales.

Bombardier does build good aircraft.  I don't understand why we need to look far and wide for SAR planes when we have a world class aircraft manufacturer right here - and in Quebec no less!  We shouldn't have to find an excuse to give Bombardier money, they should build what we need & therefore earn it.

A little bit of leadership & initiative would do more than a bailout will
 

Ostrozac

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Bombardier took a major step away from military aviation in 2003, when they sold their Military Aviation Services component to SPAR Aerospace. It was a deliberate decision on their part, they saw their real future was in commercial aviation. Hence why their ongoing rivalry with Embraer is so important to the company -- they are the Pepsi/Coke of medium sized commercial aircraft manufacturers.

Bombardier is probably correct in their assumption that warplanes are not a good fit for them. Even if they were to get a contract to make, for example, a patrol/strike aircraft, Canada is a small market, and our export restrictions make it difficult to then try to sell those same aircraft to other countries that would use them in their intended role (to find and destroy targets). So they'd have a few boom years of building an aircraft for Canada, then would have to close the assembly line as all the countries that might be looking for an aircraft find other vendors that aren't going to raise a stink about human rights.
 

Kirkhill

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CBH99 said:
I'm finding the older I get, the more my brain is subconsciously forcing me to stop caring so much about a variety of things - for caring seems to equal frustration & bewilderment.

Why can't the government & Bombardier not get it together to make it a more functional, relevant business?  It has so many things going for it, yet it seems to fail at the very things they are supposed to be good at.  But the government could do a lot to be helpful, besides bailing them out of their own mismanagement.


For example...SAR aircraft & MPA.

Two types of aircraft the CF will presumably always use.  Nothing new here, nothing magical.  Neither of this type of aircraft is a new concept in the slightest.

Why can't the government/CF not just say "We need an aircraft that does A, B, C" - and then have Bombardier create a product that does exactly what the government needs.  Boom, sales.  Self sufficiency.  If the product is good, it may gather interest from other countries, and now you have profitability.

If the government says "we need a SAR aircraft that can fly fast to get to an area, but also fly slow once it gets there, and it needs a rear ramp for the deployment of SAR techs, etc etc" - why can't Bombardier JUST PRODUCE WHAT IS BEING LOOKED FOR.

Government gives Bombardier direction on what they require.  Bombardier designs a good product.  Boom - sales.

Bombardier does build good aircraft.  I don't understand why we need to look far and wide for SAR planes when we have a world class aircraft manufacturer right here - and in Quebec no less!  We shouldn't have to find an excuse to give Bombardier money, they should build what we need & therefore earn it.

A little bit of leadership & initiative would do more than a bailout will

I think Bombardier would also make a potentially decent "centre of excellence" for Canadian large UAVs.  If they could figure out how to contract with Northrop Grumman or General Atomics.
 

Loachman

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Chris Pook said:
I think Bombardier would also make a potentially decent "centre of excellence" for Canadian large UAVs.

Why?

Is the market big enough?

Chris Pook said:
If they could figure out how to contract with Northrop Grumman or General Atomics.

Do we need another company that can provide less for more?

We have a boot industry in Canada, too. How's that working out for the CF?

Getting Bombardier off of welfare would be a good thing. They'd be forced to sharpen their game and become truly competitive.
 

Kirkhill

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Loachman said:
Why?

Is the market big enough?

Do we need another company that can provide less for more?

We have a boot industry in Canada, too. How's that working out for the CF?

Getting Bombardier off of welfare would be a good thing. They'd be forced to sharpen their game and become truly competitive.

No disagreements on any of the above.  Just trying to work within my skewed and cynical perception of the Canadian reality.
 

MarkOttawa

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That Saab ISR aircraft with Bombardier Global 6000 airframe moving ahead--UAE has signed for three:

Saab touts GlobalEye as future E-3A replacement for NATO
http://www.janes.com/article/78152/saab-touts-globaleye-as-future-e-3a-replacement-for-nato

PICTURES: Saab's GlobalEye makes flight debut
...
getasset.aspx

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pictures-saabs-globaleye-makes-flight-debut-446775/

Mark
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suffolkowner

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/challenger-vip-jet-fleet-1.4636818

not sure if this is the right spot for this but does it make sense to buy used instead of upgrading the whole fleet?
 

CBH99

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I'm guessing it was suggested this way more due to optics than anything else. 


The media, for some odd reason, always makes a huge deal about the Challenger fleet...because you know, as a G7 country, our political leaders & cabinet ministers should obviously be sitting beside Bob on Westjet  ::)

I wish someone in government, regardless of political party, would simply tell the media "We are a G7 country, and we have political commitments around the world.  As such, the senior echelon of government leaders need to be able to travel securely, sometimes on extremely short notice, and sometimes the details of such must be kept confidential."

And that's it.  Shut it down once & for all. 
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Yes, we are a G7 country and sometimes, its important to look and act like one.

So I'll go one better: The VIP fleet is the showcase of Canadian know how - lets go big: Get four new Bombardier Global 7000. They are Bombardier's flagship business jet , brand new, and they are built in Ontario. Win-Win-Win.
 

dimsum

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
So I'll go one better: The VIP fleet is the showcase of Canadian know how - lets go big: Get four new Bombardier Global 7000. They are Bombardier's flagship business jet , brand new, and they are built in Ontario. Win-Win-Win.

Not good enough - they aren't built in Quebec.  :whistle:
 

CBH99

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They aren't manufactured in Quebec?  Good to know.  I didn't know Bombardier manufactured aircraft outside of Quebec.
 
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