"Security on military bases to be reviewed by all-party Commons committee"

[MilEME09]

When the Economy goes down, recruiting goes up, seeing the biggest intake i've ever seen this year in Calgary. The issue is, the things we have talked about to increase security costs a lot, and the question is, is the government, and by extension the Canadian people willing to pay for increased security on military facilities?

 

[George Wallace]

I visited Gagetown a couple of years ago as a retiree.  I was surprised the gated entry was gone, but thought it logical.  If someone wants to cause havoc on a military base they can go through the woods, dress in a uniform or go for too soft targets just outside.  What I did notice was cameras were everywhere.  Those--if monitored--can provide a basis for mobile patrols to intercept anyone suspicious anywhere, such as that old geezer bicycling around and looking in strange places.  If bases need more security, surveillance and a quick response will be more effective.  The gate check is cosmetic but not effective security.

[

I see two things wrong here: 

First, the majority of people do not bother with the woods to access the Base, but the main roads.  Only the lightly armed, serious threats, likely in small numbers, would contemplate the woods.  A large car bomb or other large contingent would likely enter through the Main Gate in vehicles.

Security cameras may sound good, but think of the persons monitoring them in a nice warm, dry environment and they tendency not to want to leave that nice warm, dry environment until the end of their shift; not to mention the length of their response time should they respond to an event on the other side of the Base.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Manned with what people? I don't have enough personnel to accomplish my mandate, let alone fill all the CFTPO's that come from Div. If you have extra soldiers, sailors, airmen (I don't care what colour the DEU) send them my way and I'll employ them.

You need 2 people per gate there at all times.  With a 12 hour rotation, that's 4 people per gate per day.  Don't tell me you can't find 4 to 10 pers a day on a base.  Supplement with patrol MPs during the morning rush.

Another option is to use PAT.  Instead of having them wait at Borden or Gagetown, attach post them to a base until their course starts to do guard duties at various installations.

Give them solid ROEs and you are set.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You need 2 people per gate there at all times.  With a 12 hour rotation, that's 4 people per gate per day.  Don't tell me you can't find 4 to 10 pers a day on a base.  Supplement with patrol MPs during the morning rush.

I would say no.  Units, at least mine, have a hell of a time at times finding 2 people to man the duty desk 24 hours a day often enough. Lots of last minute changes as members are tasked away or go on course or weren't told they're on duty.  We already send NCOs and NCMs to base duty detail every day on top of working our own duty desk.

Biggest point of contention for me is that for actual security we need trained members who are current and confident with the job and not grabbing Sgt whoever from 1 dental unit to throw her on base security because the MCpl slated had an appointment and the last time she worked security was 7 months ago.

Another option is to use PAT.  Instead of having them wait at Borden or Gagetown, attach post them to a base until their course starts to do guard duties at various installations.

I would go with this. Put a PAT platoon or two's worth of soldiers on base security. It's gainfully employing them a hell of a lot more than having them play XBox or candy crush all day.  We could also put our Warrior platoon members on security.


And honestly at the end of the day putting people on security doesn't matter if someone can walk 100 feet to the right and walk right on to base. I've seen people drive on the grass to circumvent closed, unmanned "gates".

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I've seen people drive on the grass to circumvent closed, unmanned "gates".

I don't know which base or station that would be Jarnhamar. But clearly, putting a gated road without a fence going all round the base or station is pretty stupid. However, just make sure that it was not because there was going to be phased in construction.

My wife works at the Space Agency. It used to be a building in the middle of a huge open field in St-Hubert, near the airport. The only security was a front desk manned by commissionaires. After the attack on parliament hill, when the conservatives decided to increase security at all government buildings, they first installed big cement blocks to create chicanes in front of the main door to stop car or truck crashing attacks, and to put a gate and guard house at the main road entrance. That left the whole field all around fully open to drive on. But that was only because of budgets: the gate came first and this summer, the fence is going up.

 

[Swingline1984]

You need 2 people per gate there at all times.  With a 12 hour rotation, that's 4 people per gate per day.  Don't tell me you can't find 4 to 10 pers a day on a base.  Supplement with patrol MPs during the morning rush.

Another option is to use PAT.  Instead of having them wait at Borden or Gagetown, attach post them to a base until their course starts to do guard duties at various installations.

Give them solid ROEs and you are set.

(***deleted unnecessary rant - shouldn't post before coffee kicks in)

I say keep the Commissionaires...half those old buggers could out run my troops.

 

[Journeyman]

Yes, security can  be expensive.  But (returning to my personal bête noire), look at all the money we're mindlessly pissing away on badges and uniforms; more than enough money could be made available.

The problem with security is it's inconvenient.  People would have to remember ID, leave for work earlier, think before posting various security weaknesses on internet fora, actively maintain situational awareness.....

Lazy will eventually trump security, until the next inevitable crisis.

 

[Zoomie]

Man-power 101 in the CAF:

In order for a position (whether it be a desk, gate, etc) to be manned 100%, 24/7 - you require 5 pers for every position.  This does not take into account sickness, leave, courses, medical appointments etc.  An extra 1 or 2 members is required as backfill.  If you want to put 2 pers at each gate and man it 100% you would need 10 bodies per gate(minimum).  That's the math folks, approved by the CF leave manual and the chain of command.

Commissionaires work for Base Ops - they follow policy dictated to them - they do not power of arrest, detention or anything.  They have power of telephone calls.  A credible BASF/WASF in support of the BSF/WSF (aka MPs) is a surge capability only - a capability that will hamstring another section of the base when exercised.

 

[RedcapCrusader]

Man-power 101 in the CAF:

In order for a position (whether it be a desk, gate, etc) to be manned 100%, 24/7 - you require 5 pers for every position.  This does not take into account sickness, leave, courses, medical appointments etc.  An extra 1 or 2 members is required as backfill.  If you want to put 2 pers at each gate and man it 100% you would need 10 bodies per gate(minimum).  That's the math folks, approved by the CF leave manual and the chain of command.

Commissionaires work for Base Ops - they follow policy dictated to them - they do not power of arrest, detention or anything.  They have power of telephone calls.  A credible BASF/WASF in support of the BSF/WSF (aka MPs) is a surge capability only - a capability that will hamstring another section of the base when exercised.

I know budgets are tight, however there's a number of Res MP Platoons with members itching for a tasking, even if it is just to get paid (especially in AB right now). We have enough law and Use of Force Training that we won't pop the first guy that acts sketchy, with our primary duty being Field MPU/Force Protection; we also have the aggression and now-how to engage a threat.

There are ways to do it, but as everyone has already stated, it all comes down to money.

Without money, nothing happens.

Hopefully this review will have a good outcome, with enough pressure, there could be some funds relocated from useless waste into the Security Fund.

 

[QV]

Commissionaires work for Base Ops - they follow policy dictated to them - they do not power of arrest, detention or anything.  They have power of telephone calls.  A credible BASF/WASF in support of the BSF/WSF (aka MPs) is a surge capability only - a capability that will hamstring another section of the base when exercised.

DCAAR grant pretty reasonable powers for guards assigned to the base.  The biggest problem, in my experience, is the general attitude about security by CAF members.  Journeyman's comment about lazy and inconvenience is bang on.  If we could just get everyone to diligently follow the NDSODs rather than constantly look for loop holes to get around security requirements we would be much further ahead at zero cost.