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Secret commandos accidentally detained at Tim Hortons

muffin

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Secret commandos accidentally detained at Tim Hortons

The Canadian Press

Date: Tuesday Feb. 15, 2011 5:30 PM ET

OTTAWA — Drop the donut and show me your hands.

A hankering for Tim Hortons after a hard day of training went horribly wrong for some of Canada's super-secret commandos, who wound up handcuffed and face down along a major highway.

The elite special-forces soldiers, travelling in a convoy of civilian vehicles, were pulled over in late 2009 along Highway 401 in southern Ontario after a panicked member of the public spotted the burly men at a coffee shop.

Ontario Provincial Police were called, though it's not clear whether it was because someone had spotted a weapon or some other reason.

Officers from the Brighton detachment, west of Belleville, Ont., followed the vehicles east along the highway, where they executed "a high-risk takedown," with weapons drawn.

The incident came to light through military records obtained by The Canadian Press under the Access to Information Act.

"The OPP responded with a high-risk takedown on the vehicle which left Tim Hortons," says a Defence Department report into the Nov. 27, 2009, incident.

"With weapons drawn the OPP ordered (censored) from the vehicles where they were searched, cuffed and laid on the ground beside the highway in plain view of passing motorists."

The documents provide a rare glimpse into the special forces, which include highly skilled JTF-2 operators.

Soldiers, who had been conducting a counter-terrorism exercise, were heavily armed and possessed high-tech surveillance gizmos to combat terrorists and criminals. They explained to provincial cops that they were members of the special forces.


More on link...
 
At least they were "secret commandos", so this at least makes some sense.

How many times have police been called on uniformed troops during BFTs, exercises, etc?

 
muffin said:
Soldiers, who had been conducting a counter-terrorism exercise, were heavily armed and possessed high-tech surveillance gizmos to combat terrorists and criminals.
Were they really "heavily armed" or is that media hype? As in, did someone carry an Eryx and a Stinger into Timmies or did a patron catch a glimpse of a belt holster with a Sig? (Hey, it could be the former; after all, the article says the customer was "panicked" because the men were "burly")

As for "high tech gizmos"....I hate it when the media shows no concept of OPSEC and gives away tactical details like that.  :mad: 
 
a Sig Op said:
At least they were "secret commandos", so this at least makes some sense.

How many times have police been called on uniformed troops during BFTs, exercises, etc?

Or when we are in DEU's firing the 105's and the cops show up because ppl heard loud booms.....

::)
 
Once a few years back an armed LEO (new guy- as if you couldnt tell) decided that he was pretty awesome in his plain clothes with gun. Took his coat off at a red light by getting out of the car- verrry Miami Vice and the car behind him spotted his piece.

Taken down at gun point. In another scenario I was on the other end of the gun while I was verified- my "police" patch had come off in the brush.

Its just the normal procedure. I would GUESS that someone saw a concealed piece.

This would almost just be a matter of minutes and handshakes. At least with me it would be. Hardly news.

 
NFLD Sapper said:
Or when we are in DEU's firing the 105's and the cops show up because ppl heard loud booms.....

::)
No one ever said the RNC was bright.
 
The RCMP pulled over one of our LAV III's on exercise in Sussex... what exactly they were thinking I have no idea  :warstory:
 
Stymiest said:
The RCMP pulled over one of our LAV III's on exercise in Sussex... what exactly they were thinking I have no idea  :warstory:

We had the same thing happen with a Coyote south of Ottawa.  I wonder what these guys thought we would be doing with a big green eight wheeled armoured vehicle with a 25 mm Chain Gun mounted and 7.62 mm Coax?  It was funny to hear that they approached the pers and veh with their hands on weapons?  It is not like we were gun nuts who had built this thing in our garage or anything.  Just shows how ignorant many Canadians are about the CF, if LEOs do things like this.
 
George Wallace said:
We had the same thing happen with a Coyote south of Ottawa.  I wonder what these guys thought we would be doing with a big green eight wheeled armoured vehicle with a 25 mm Chain Gun mounted and 7.62 mm Coax?  It was funny to hear that they approached the pers and veh with their hands on weapons?  It is not like we were gun nuts who had built this thing in our garage or anything.  Just shows how ignorant many Canadians are about the CF, if LEOs do things like this.

Yah no kidding, and the RCMP wonders why everyone thinks they are completely incompetent... we all had a good laugh about it afterwards

especially when thinking about what exactly they planned to do with their pistols and squad car against our million dollar IFV lol, I think what was even funnier was the fact that we had taken great precautions beforehand telling LEOs and the town of Sussex that we were doing an exercise. 
 
Stymiest said:
Yah no kidding, and the RCMP wonders why everyone thinks they are completely incompetent... we all had a good laugh about it afterwards

especially when thinking about what exactly they planned to do with their pistols and squad car against our million dollar IFV lol, I think what was even funnier was the fact that we had taken great precautions beforehand telling LEOs and the town of Sussex that we were doing an exercise.

They planned on risking their lives doing a traffic stop. Just like they are expected to do. I mean its not like we dont have thousand of nut "freemen" with various home made APC's and restored relics.

When someone calls a complaint we have to investigate. No matter how stupid it is- or we get in trouble. No matter how "incompetent" "everyone" thinks we are.
 
Container said:
They planned on risking their lives doing a traffic stop. Just like they are expected to do. I mean its not like we dont have thousand of nut "freemen" with various home made APC's and restored relics.

When someone calls a complaint we have to investigate. No matter how stupid it is- or we get in trouble. No matter how "incompetent" "everyone" thinks we are.

So, you're saying that you would drive up behind a Coyote/LAV/whatever, that has Canada plates, with guys dressed as military popping through the hatches, and pull them over, instead of radioing back and saying that it is obviously a military vehicle with Canada plates and that there's no need to investigate further?

That's why we mock LEOs like this.  Because there's no ability to think and decide on the fly.  Until stories like this go away, expect the mocking to continue.
 
Yes. Im telling you that THEY HAVE to pull over the vehicle in order to be able to assure people that call in hysterics that there is no war exploding on the highway.

I once spent a whople night investigating "gun shots" when I could see fireworks going off because the "person" who called assured me that she knew the difference between gun shots and fireworks. I knew better but I still got to ask really dumb questions to people who thought I was "incompetent".

So they pull over the vehicle. Their hands hover because who knows, maybe this is a wingnut (probably not) but they play it safe(r). They wont send out ERT to pull over a vehicle. So me and my 9mm get to go.

Quite frankly, Strike, your "mocking" when the cops leave shows more about you than the cop who pulled over the big green machine. Maybe if you guys had inquired while stopped you would have gotten the explanation you need.

EDIT- Of course I would readily accept good natured "mocking" by the guys at the roadside.

Stories like this cant go away because Canadians require us to ask foolish questions.
 
Strike said:
So, you're saying that you would drive up behind a Coyote/LAV/whatever, that has Canada plates, with guys dressed as military popping through the hatches, and pull them over, instead of radioing back and saying that it is obviously a military vehicle with Canada plates and that there's no need to investigate further?

[glow=red,2,300]That's why we mock LEOs like this.  Because there's no ability to think and decide on the fly.  Until stories like this go away, expect the mocking to continue.[/glow]

I find that very disrespectful and I am surprised it came from you Strike. Members of the military are not the only ones who must follow orders they realize do not make sense, but do so as it is their job.
 
I say good on the coppers for going TOWARD the guy with the gun, regardless of how stupid the reason.  At least it's a more "high speed" part of their job than reloading batteries into photo radar cameras.
 
George Wallace said:
We had the same thing happen with a Coyote south of Ottawa.

I was pulled over on the Queensway (417) in Ottawa by Ottawa Police while crew comanding a Grizzly many years ago.  When I popped out and said "Can I help you, officer?"  he said "what is this thing"  So, I told him and he asked "can I get a quick tour?"  So, I obliged him while three more cruisers containing similarly curious police offiers pulled up.  Handshakes all around between them and my crew followed by an "escort" through the Queensway traffic towards Petawawa.
 
Haggis said:
I was pulled over on the Queensway (417) in Ottawa by Ottawa Police while crew comanding a Grizzly many years ago.  When I popped out and said "Can I help you, officer?"  he said "what is this thing"  So, I told him and he asked "can I get a quick tour?"  So, I obliged him while three more cruisers containing similarly curious police offiers pulled up.  Handshakes all around between them and my crew followed by an "escort" through the Queensway traffic towards Petawawa.

Did they make you an offer on it?:
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/cityplus/story.html?id=ca31677a-189f-489e-a547-0e745d18cb90
 
Maybe I should have added a smiley and added "mocking on this site."

Sorry if I offended anyone.  That's what I get for posting things in haste between classes.  ;)

As an aside, whenever a convoy or travel like this is planned, the PA cell for the associated unit should be keeping local authorities in the loop so we don't waste the LEOs' time.
 
Rehash of old news.  I'd rather LE follow-up on a concern (generally, no matter where it came from...habitual "criers of wolf" excepted), than the opposite occur.  If all's above board and everyone is cool about the process to verify that it is, the result would be a confirmation of who is who, and all would carry on afterwards - no harm, no foul.  Until some folks have gone on a few ride-alongs to understand the stress of the unknown for LEOs on patrol, questions as to LEO conduct in such situations shouldn't doubt the concern for safety of citizens and fellow officers.  Nor should the members need to take offence to the officers conducting the take-down - nothing personal that I would see there...until confirmed, the LEOs can't confirm the situation.

I would be interested to know, however, (as the article didn't mention it) if the police ran the vehicle's plate prior to effecting the detention portion of the high-risk take down?  The article says the members were hand-cuffed during the process - not sure if they really were, but the results of running the plate would definitely provide information that would potentially influence how the LEO I/C might conduct the take-down within established SOPs.

Having done more than a few ride-alongs with OPP and RCMP, I would never be in the slightest offended if I ever found myself temporarily kissing pavement for whatever reason...there's a frack-load more stress on the officer than there ever would be on the detainee, IMO.

Regards
G2G
 
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