Sea Pay Navy - Needs to be changed

[Michael OLeary]

205.35 – SEA DUTY ALLOWANCE

205.35 – SEA DUTY ALLOWANCE

  1. (Definition) In this instruction, “eligible service” means any period during which the officer or non-commissioned member was:

        1. posted to a submarine that was not in refit or a ship;
        2. serving in a sea-going position designated by the Minister for the purpose of this instruction;
        3. posted to the Joint Task Force 2 in a sea-going position designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff for the purpose of CBI 205.385 - Joint Task Force 2 Allowance; or
        4. posted to a position designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff for the purpose of CBI 205.385 and was serving in a sea-going position.

  2. (Eligibility) Subject to paragraph (3), an officer or non-commissioned member posted to a ship, other than a submarine, or serving in a sea-going position designated by the Minister for the purpose of this instruction, is entitled to Sea Duty Allowance at the appropriate monthly rate set out in the Table to this instruction for the member’s accumulated eligible service, unless the member is in receipt of Joint Task Force 2 Allowance under CBI 205.385.

  3. (Limitation) An officer or non-commissioned member who is posted to a Fleet Diving Unit, a ship or a tender that is attached to the Fleet Diving Unit is not entitled to Sea Duty Allowance.

Table to CBI 205.35
YEARS OF ACCUMULATED ELIGIBLE SERVICE MONTHLY RATE
less than 5 years $285
5 years or more $406
9 years or more $526
12 years or more $636
15 years or more $677
18 years or more $719

(TB No 833048, effective 1 Apr 06)

 

[Michael OLeary]

And for comparison:

205.39 – FIELD OPERATIONS ALLOWANCE

205.39 – FIELD OPERATIONS ALLOWANCE

  1. (Definition) In this instruction, “field operation” means an operation ordered by the Chief of the Defence Staff or a field exercise or training exercise carried out under the authority of National Defence Headquarters or an officer commanding a command, formation, base or unit, in which an officer or non-commissioned member is required to live under field conditions for a period of not less than 24 consecutive hours, but does not include a survey operation.

  2. (Eligibility) Subject to paragraph (3), an officer or non-commissioned member is entitled, when on duty on a field operation away from the permanent facilities normally occupied at the member ’s base or other unit or element, to:

        1. $18.46 for each complete 24-hour period of that duty; and
            (TB No 833048, effective 1 Apr 06)
        2. $18.46 for any remaining period of that duty that is of six or more hours duration.
            (TB No 833048, effective 1 Apr 06)

  3. (Limitations) An officer or non-commissioned member:

        1. is not entitled to Field Operations Allowance when the member is entitled to Joint Task Force 2 Allowance under CBI 205.385 or on adventure training;
        2. is not entitled to Field Operations Allowance when the member is in receipt of Post Differential Allowance under the Military Foreign Service Regulations; or
        3. who is on temporary duty and entitled to Field Operation Allowance, is not entitled to incidentals under paragraph (5) of CBI 209.30 - Travelling Expenses – Conditions and Entitlement while in receipt of Field Operation Allowance.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Well that seems fair.  At least it seems the consensus amongst most Navy pers is that they think the army should get something.

 

[kratz]

To make a proper comparison to the FOA daily rate of $18.46 to anyone eligable for itvice SDA:

SDA is divisiable by 30 days after the first month of egability, so:

Those with less than 5 years SDA = $9.50 daily
Those with more than 5 years SDA = $13.53 daily
Those with more than 9 years SDA = $17.53 daily
Those with more than 12 years SDA = $21.20 daily.

To earn a raise in SDA a member must be in a sea billet for the respective number of days (more than 5 years = 60 months or 1825 days)
A Pte(R) earns their $18.46 each day they are in the field.

The differences between SDA and FOA have been reviewed and looked at in the past. They are under review again.

 

[aesop081]

Well that seems fair.  At least it seems the consensus amongst most Navy pers is that they think the army should get something.

Absolutely....in fact it is about time that personel in field units get some form of environmental allowance.  When i was still army, i often went to the filed with short notice just like today, some days i go to work not expecting to fly and i end up doing so.  Its only fair and i welcome full-time FOA for my army bretheren.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Some call it making your FOA go further others like me called it cheap.  I wonder where (if it comes) the new allowance will come from, will the centre pay it or will it come out of the unit budget?

As is for SDA, AIRCRA, SARA, DIVA or any other continuous environmental allowance, the centre would absorb the cost. This in turn would free up funds for units as currently "Casual FOA" is paid from local funds.

The short of it is that the Budget 2007 intent is to re designate FOA as a continuous allowance following the same principles of others such as SDA or AIRCRA. This means there would be time incentives for those with various amount of years posted within field units.

This in turn would mean that when  it would be officially announced a calculation of time within field units would have to be completed for every person; thus some serious time delay in determining the appropriate levels for all pers. The only other option I could see would be announcing that previous time does not count prior to (insert date) and that the clock starts now.

In its simplest terms, Continuous FOA would be administered no differently then is SDA or AIRCRA. Without official confirmation or direction, those are the only "assumptions" which can be deemed plausible with the following 2 options:
1- Clock starts now, all pers start with the basic level; or
2- A calculation for all pers of time spent (read posted) in field positions.

All in all, until determinations are completed and promulgated we can only speculate using existing, and comparable, entitlements to determine  eligibility as that would be the mainframe utilized.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Its only fair and i welcome full-time FOA for my army bretheren.

+1, Long time coming, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Sub_Guy]

However although not entitled to full time SUBA he is entitled to Casual SUBA (CBI 205.375) while doing his duty watches on a submarine. That being said he would be in receipt of allowances while undergoing training disqualying his statement that he is not being compensated while on a submarine.

Depends on what phase of the submarine training he is on.  During Basic Submarine Course (my course) we didn't stand duty watches, after the course you were attach posted back to either Mog 4/5 training billets for duty watches which you were double banked for a couple. Out west we were getting subspa and submarine allowance I don't know what they were getting out east. 

Trust me guys, submarine duty watches are great compared to the surface, besides its totally different when you volunteer to become a submariner, the last thing I heard when I was down there was moaning and bitching among trainees about allowances.  We were happy to be down there.

On the sub there are 3 messes, when you are duty there are 3 people....... (unless that changed) so each dude/dudette gets their own mess, there is not any fighting about what to watch on tv (or what to play on the xbox) and if you are watching a good show and it carries on into your watch, just head up  to control and finish watching it there.   

 

[Private Parts]

Those with less than 5 years SDA = $9.50 daily

Keep in mind these numbers are before taxes.  I got posted ashore not too long ago, expecting a sizeable drop with the loss of SDA.  It turned out to be $80/pay after taxes - or $5.33 daily.

 

[NavyShooter]

In truth guys, (and gals) I'd rather see them do away with sea pay entirely, and instead increase our base salary.

Why may you ask?

Because, as far as I understand, Sea Pay has no effect on my pension....only my Base Salary. 

So, if I'm getting an extra $500+ a month for my 9 years sea pay, that money does NOT factor into my pension calculations.  Meaning that my pensionable earnings are in fact $6000 a year LESS than what they would appear to be...

So, let's say my income from last year was $70,000, 40% of that is $28,000.  In fact, my pensionable amount is only $64,000, for $25,600, a reduction of $2400....

I'd rather have that $6000 as part of my base pay, so that it's factored into my pension.  That's $200 a month less (or more)....that's a full case of 9mm ammo each month!  (I shoot IPSC sometimes as well as service rifle, so equating it a chunck of my annual ammo budget is a good idea.)

NavyShooter

 

[PO2FinClk]

Valid point, but remember that enviromental allowances are designed to offset the lieu of employement and the "hardships" associated to it, thus not composite to your pensionable earnings.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Any update on fulltime army pay?

 

[PO2FinClk]

Last I heard, and saw through email traffic, was the following:

It would be called Field Environment Allowance (FEA) and as of Sep 07, they were dafting and confirming the lists of positions which would be entitled to receive it. The entitlement would be based on the expectation that whomever would be in that position would be expected to be in the field for at least 60 days in a year to receive FEA. In essence the same, if not very similar, methodology used for SDA or AIRCRA.

That's all I have seen on it so won't even attempt speculate about a timeline as it could be very soon or very far.

 

[navymich]

... they were dafting ...

Those fin types always are a bit daft. 

 

[vonGarvin]

Last I heard, and saw through email traffic, was the following:

It would be called Field Environment Allowance (FEA) and as of Sep 07, they were dafting and confirming the lists of positions which would be entitled to receive it. The entitlement would be based on the expectation that whomever would be in that position would be expected to be in the field for at least 60 days in a year to receive FEA. In essence the same, if not very similar, methodology used for SDA or AIRCRA.

From what I heard about this through the water cooler traffic (take this as pure speculation), is that some units classify as field units.  EG: Reg Force infantry battalions, armoured regiments and so forth.  The schools are NOT part of the FEA (CON) element: FOA (as we know it) will be FEA (CAS) as in "casual".  If, however, a person fills a position in which he/she is deployed 60 days/annum, then they would qualify for FEA (CON) as in "continuous".  This has NOT yet been approved.  In fact, NOTHING has been approved, so don't buy those plasma TV's just yet!

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Hopefully the gov't lasts long enough for this to be implemented.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Darn, too much of hurry to type to spell check!

What Mortarman states is also in line with the email traffic I have seen and simply reinforces the methodology used to be quite like the other Environmental Allowances. And yes nothing has been approved, it is still being "dafted"

 

[jollyjacktar]

Slightly off topic, but I am hearing whispers of a possible pay in the near future.  Something in the line of 3.8 percent as this it what the civil service have been rumored to have negotiated.  Has anyone heard anything else?

 

[PO2FinClk]

Slightly off topic, but I am hearing whispers of a possible pay in the near future.  Something in the line of 3.8 percent as this it what the civil service have been rumored to have negotiated.  Has anyone heard anything else?

Ah yes, the most irritating and annoying rumour which makes its rounds every darn year.
Try this thread: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/58972.0.html

Has the bargaining concluded? Don't believe anything until you see it

 

[jollyjacktar]

PO2, thank you for the link.  I should have done a better search before flapping my gate, apologies for the hijack.