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San Bernardino Shooting leaves 14 dead - 02 Dec 15

OldSolduer

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Jed said:
How long must North America endure this politically correct blindness of the current US administration? It is greatly doing damage to the US and the Western World. Surely the people in the US can stand up to his nonsense and not let your dear leader spool up before he finally gets ousted.

I think that will change. Once the current US President is gone I think a more rational, realistic President may take the helm.

I just hope it's not The Donald.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Hamish Seggie said:
I think that will change. Once the current US President is gone I think a more rational, realistic President may take the helm.

I just hope it's not The Donald.

You can't get more realistic than Donald! ;D
 

GAP

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Hamish Seggie said:
I think that will change. Once the current US President is gone I think a more rational, realistic President may take the helm.

I just hope it's not The Donald.

Everybody was saying the same things about that "Actor guy" Regan......
 

Altair

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There have been 355 mass shooting in America this year.

In all seriousness, why is everyone getting worked up about this one.
 

Jarnhamar

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Altair said:
There have been 355 mass shooting in America this year.

In all seriousness, why is everyone getting worked up about this one.
Someone shooting 4 people with a bb gun gets recorded  as a mass shooting.  This one was a bit more serious.

Also there's the whole extremist connection.
 

tomahawk6

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Malik got into this country due to an INS error.The visa system that allowed the 9-11 hijackers to get into the country has not been fixed.As it is now most people getting visas dont get the necessary background checks.Things wont get better bringing in 30,000 Syrian refugees with who knows how many sleeper agents among them.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Altair said:
In all seriousness, why is everyone getting worked up about this one.

Stop being a piece of shit............
 

Brad Sallows

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"This is a political choice that we make..."

...and the political choice always seems to be to run to the cupboard and dust off the agenda that calls for layering a bunch of limitations and inconveniences and obligations on people who do not shoot anyone and are not likely to - hunting for the keys under the lamp post rather than near where they were lost, because the light is better.
 

Altair

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Stop being a piece of crap............
I must say, I missed being the target of so much negative attention.

Back to the topic at hand, are you meaning to say that I am wrong, and that there isn't a mass shooting in America every day, a really big one every other month?
 

The Bread Guy

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recceguy said:
You can't get more realistic than Donald! ;D
Not so much on the rational side sometimes, though ....
 

mariomike

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Altair said:
Back to the topic at hand, are you meaning to say that I am wrong, and that there isn't a mass shooting in America every day, a really big one every other month?

I was not sure of the definition of "Mass Shooting", so I looked it up:

The characterization of an event as a mass shooting depends upon definition and definitions vary. The United States FBI defines mass shootings as the murder of four or more people with no cooling off period. According to CNN, a mass shooting is defined as having four or more fatalities, not including gang killings or slayings that involve the death of multiple family members. In "Behind the Bloodshed", a report by USAToday, a mass killing is defined as any incident in which four or more were killed and also includes family killings. Shooting Tracker however defines a mass shooting as four or more injured or killed.

There is debate as to when to characterize a mass shooting as terrorism. Some have argued that certain mass shootings should not be characterized as terrorism. A U.S. congressional research service report excluded, from a study, mass shootings in which terrorist ideology was a motivation.

Some have argued that the term mass shooting should include domestic violence killings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting#Definition

( References are at the bottom of the page. )
 

ModlrMike

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Altair said:
There have been 355 mass shooting in America this year.

There is some difference of opinion on that matter:

How Many Mass Shootings Are There, Really?

On Wednesday, a Washington Post article announced that “The San Bernardino shooting is the second mass shooting today and the 355th this year.” Vox, MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, this newspaper and others reported similar statistics. Grim details from the church in Charleston, a college classroom in Oregon and a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado are still fresh, but you could be forgiven for wondering how you missed more than 300 other such attacks in 2015.
 

PuckChaser

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355 shootings could easily be 355 bombings if you somehow got rid of guns, or 355 stabbings, or 355 beatings with a bat. The problem is the US is that human life has no value to people, and they're willing to take someone else's life for something as simple as an iPhone. We have a whole lot of guns in Canada, but very limited amount of mass shootings. The US needs to look at our culture and find out why we don't have the problems they do.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Not to mention the role of anti-depressant drugs. When you look at the Homicide rate for both the US and Canada it's nothing but good news, but that does not fit the narrative. If one was to dig deep into the stats, one would find that most of the problems and homicides are clustered in certain locales, which means if one was serious about solving root causes, you could identify the issues. but that would require hard work and kicking a few sacred cows in the junk, so they go back to blaming guns.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Altair said:
I must say, I missed being the target of so much negative attention.

Back to the topic at hand, are you meaning to say that I am wrong, and that there isn't a mass shooting in America every day, a really big one every other month?

Look, you made an insensitive, asinine statement. Instead of owning it and leaving it be, you've just made yourself look all the stupider by trying to justify it. To the point of the initial statement no longer being relevant anymore.

So just stop. People are really tired of your postings.

---Staff---
 

daftandbarmy

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PuckChaser said:
355 shootings could easily be 355 bombings if you somehow got rid of guns, or 355 stabbings, or 355 beatings with a bat. The problem is the US is that human life has no value to people, and they're willing to take someone else's life for something as simple as an iPhone. We have a whole lot of guns in Canada, but very limited amount of mass shootings. The US needs to look at our culture and find out why we don't have the problems they do.

Wrong.  ::)
 

Altair

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recceguy said:
Look, you made an insensitive, asinine statement. Instead of owning it and leaving it be, you've just made yourself look all the stupider by trying to justify it. To the point of the initial statement no longer being relevant anymore.

So just stop. People are really tired of your postings.

---Staff---
I've made that comment on many different sites, here is the only place that people get their knickers in a knot.

That said, if people are in fact so tired hearing different opinions and viewpoints I'll leave this topic be. No biggie.
 

a_majoor

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The rule needs to be "heads up, eyes open and report suspicious activities". Political Correctness just got 14 people killed:

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/12/07/friends-family-worried-about-san-bernardino-terrorists-but-said-nothing/

Friends, family worried about San Bernardino terrorists, but said nothing
posted at 9:21 am on December 7, 2015 by Taylor Millard

Family and friends of the San Bernardino attackers were worried they were becoming radicalized, but didn’t say anything. One of Tashfeen Malik’s family members in Pakistan told The Los Angeles Times there was concern when she started posting things on Facebook which seemed extremist.


The family member, in Malik’s hometown of Karor Lal Esan who asked to not be identified, said Malik’s postings on Facebook were a source of concern for her family.

“After a couple of years in college, she started becoming religious. She started taking part in religious activities and also started asking women in the family and the locality to become good Muslims. She started taking part in religious activities of women in the area,” the family member told The Times.

“She used to talk to somebody in Arabic at night on the Internet. None of our family members in Pakistan know Arabic, so we do not know what she used to discuss,” the family member said. The family speaks Urdu and a dialect of Punjabi known as Saraiki.

It isn’t just Malik’s family which had concerns. Syed Farook’s father told the Italian newspaper La Stampa, his son’s philosophy lined up with ISIS’. The interview is translated from Italian and cleaned up a bit.


Never were speaking of terrorism, Isis?

“Sure. And who does not talk about today? He said he shared the ideology of Al Baghdadi to create an Islamic state, and it was fixed with Israel. ”

Some say that to radicalize his son was his wife.

“Maybe, I do not know…I only know that (s)he was born in Pakistan and lived in Saudi Arabia, but I never spoke. He did not want to see her in-laws. I told my son that it destroyed our family, but he did not care. “

Farook’s dad makes an even more interesting comments regarding how “religious” his son had gotten, saying he was called “an unbeliever” because of a fight over the historical figure of Jesus. He also said if he were home, he may have been able to keep his son from becoming radicalized. These comments are pretty similar to ones made by the family of Paris attacker, Salah Abdeslam. Mohammed Asdeslam told RTBF TV last month his brothers became more focused on his faith. BBC News has a translated transcript.


Journalist: And you say that you didn’t see anything coming, that you never had any suspicion. A slight change six months ago, as you told me.

Mr Abdeslam: Yes, a slight change, indeed. But this change wasn’t worrying, not for me, nor for my family. When your brother begins to pray, it’s not necessarily a radicalisation. When your brother tells you he’s stopped drinking, it’s not a radical change. These are people who, for us, just wanted to calm down and show more respect in their practice of religion.

This shows a disconnect between more moderate Muslims and the extremists like Salah Abdeslam, Tashfeen Malik, and Syed Farook. It appears some moderates see the pathway to extremism as just becoming “more religious” instead of actually being extremism. One person suggested to me it was rebellion because teens and people in their 20’s crave order. Another suggested Muslim terrorists just tried to hide their tendencies from family and friends until the time is right. He compared it to murderers whose families and friends sit there saying they had no idea what was actually going on. My friend has a point, but it might not 100% be the case. If Farook’s dad and Abdeslam’s brother saw it as being more religious, then maybe it’s time moderates started paying attention more and being willing to speak out. It isn’t just issuing CAIR-like statements saying, “This isn’t what Islam represents,” it’s actually taking part in trying to change things and behavior. It means moderate Muslims are going to have to stop being fearful of blowback from the radicals. If Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jacobus Arminius, Ulrich Zwingli, and Jan Hus were willing to risk (and some lost) their lives to point out problems with the Medieval Catholic Church, then moderate Muslims have to be willing to do the same thing. The good thing is there are Muslims doing this. Islamic Institute of Boston Imam Talal Eid wants to do a march in D.C. telling ISIS to “Go to Hell,” because Muslims can’t be quiet any more. Kansas City Muslims protested against ISIS on Saturday saying ISIS makes them look bad. Corie Stephens at Rare wrote last month how there are over 6K Muslim Americans who are in the Army fighting against terrorists.


While we cannot deny that radical Islam is a threat, we must also recognize that it’s just as problematic to the Muslim community as it is to westerners. ISIS doesn’t spare its countrymen. They’re a radicalized group that sees the vast majority of Muslims as infidels…

She’s got a good point. Remember, the Left likes to portray every mass shooter as proof those NRA-loving conservatives and libertarians are just a bad day away from pulling a gun and going on a killing spree. But we know that’s not the truth. We know probably 95-97% of the people who own guns (excluding gang-members and mass shooters) are law-abiding, peaceful people. The same goes for pro-life people who protests outside clinics. They aren’t fire-breathing dragons looking to grab weapons and kill abortion docs. They just want abortion to stop. The Right cannot paint the same broad brush with Muslims that the Left does with gun lovers and pro-lifers.

The only way this is going to work is if Christians/atheists/Odin or Thor worshipers/Hindus/etc are willing to reach out to Muslims and accept them. This mean Christians who disagree with political figures and pastors who spew anti-Muslim comments have to say they disagree. It doesn’t mean agreeing with Muslims on issues, especially on who should have the Holy Land. It doesn’t mean having to accept them into your home every week (or month). It doesn’t even mean sitting there and refusing to say, “Islamic extremism” like the President seems hesitant to do. It does mean being willing to talk to Muslims and not recoil in fear or anger whenever people see one. I’ll be the first to admit, it’s a little creepy seeing a woman in a full burka. But it doesn’t mean more Westernized Muslims shouldn’t be accepted and praised for who they are. It might even convince them to start turning over family members who seem more radicalized and might be planning something. It might even turn some Muslims who are on the fence about radicalization into more moderate ones. Nothing can change what’s happened in the past regarding Islamic radicals, but labeling all Muslims as “just a terrorist waiting to happen” won’t do anything to solve a very complex problem.
 

tomahawk6

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I'm with Trump on the issue of concealed carry for self defense.If one or two people had been armed it might have been very different.Sort of like a robber trying to stick up a cop bar,it doesnt end well for the bad guys.

Anyway Farooq senior is now on the watch list accroding to ABC news.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/america-photo-shows-terror-couple-entering-us/story?id=35615829


Caught up in the investigation’s widening net as well is the Farook’s 66-year-old father, also named Syed Farook, who has been placed on a federal terrorist watch list, according to an official with direct knowledge of the case. The official told ABC News authorities are investigating the elder Farook’s multiple trips to his native Pakistan, including lengthy trips this year and last year.

“The FBI has identified him [the younger Farook] as a known terrorist,” the official said. “He’s dead. But he is now known as a terrorist. His father is an immediate family member who spent extended periods of time in Pakistan. He’s watch listed.”

A former senior counter-terrorism official said that family members of identified terrorists are often added to the Terrorist Identifier Datamart Environment (TIDE) as a precaution during the course of an investigation.

The official close to the case said that the elder Farook came to the U.S. in 1972 and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1999.
 

Jarnhamar

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Altair said:
I've made that comment on many different sites
How wonderful.
That said, if people are in fact so tired hearing different opinions and viewpoints I'll leave this topic be. No biggie.
Thanks for understanding.

PuckChaser said:
355 shootings

I've read that the "355" mass shootings in 2015 was first posted on reddit and other mainstream news agencies just ran with it.
 
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