Sailors don't wear CADPAT direction by CANFORGEN

[PuckChaser]

Would seem that supervisors who advise to disregard the directive are potentially standing themselves and their subordinates into danger.

By danger I'll assume you mean administrative or disciplinary danger. I hardly doubt subordinates are going to take any heat for this if the chain of command above them tells them to "wait out".

Being that I'm in a very purple unit, its going to start looking awfully silly around the lines. Especially when troops are having to bring in CADPAT everyday just incase they have to do some field training or crawl under a Bison. If you're posted to a unit that gets LDA, you should be wearing CADPAT. Although it would just serve to screw over the young OS, AB, and LS, if you're wearing NCD you're not in the field and should be drawing Casual LDA, IHMO.

 

[gwp]

Being that I'm in a very purple unit, its going to start looking awfully silly around the lines. Especially when troops are having to bring in CADPAT everyday just incase they have to do some field training or crawl under a Bison. If you're posted to a unit that gets LDA, you should be wearing CADPAT.

Does the last line of the directive cover the circumstance described?

"EXCEPTIONS TO THIS CANFORGEN ARE PERMITTED FOR VALID OPERATIONAL REASONS ONLY, INCL EMPL IN ACTUAL FIELD OPS, FIELD TRG ACTIVITIES OR OTHER APPROVED TRG SITUATIONS "

 

[combatbuddha]

.

I will reiterate that purples do not belong to the element, they belong to their BRANCH! I HIGHLY doubt that they'll EVER split up the BRANCHES into their individual elements again. It's pointless and we gain nothing from it, other then more ignorance from people in the same MOC who've never done anything their peers have.

The EME Branch has been a hard and fast member of the Army for a few years now. Our school even falls under the CTC CoC, and not CFSTG like the other schools in Borden. We are not purple, but still support the Army kit and equipment used by all elements and branches.

 

[meni0n]

Does the last line of the directive cover the circumstance described?

"EXCEPTIONS TO THIS CANFORGEN ARE PERMITTED FOR VALID OPERATIONAL REASONS ONLY, INCL EMPL IN ACTUAL FIELD OPS, FIELD TRG ACTIVITIES OR OTHER APPROVED TRG SITUATIONS "

No it doesn't, as being in garrison doesn't fit in any of those situations.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I see nothing wrong with them wanting to wear NCDs. What? Wrong uniform for the range\ vehicle\ outside\ \training\ etc?

Here's your coveralls.

 

[Sub_Guy]

If you're posted to a unit that gets LDA, you should be wearing CADPAT. Although it would just serve to screw over the young OS, AB, and LS, if you're wearing NCD you're not in the field and should be drawing Casual LDA, IHMO.

Interesting, so they could be sitting around not working in the field, but as long as they are wearing CADPAT they should collect LDA? 

When the Naval types are told they are going in the field they will be wearing CADPAT, but to deny them LDA because they are wearing NCD's is just plain stupid.

How about this, if you are not in the field, you shouldn't collect LDA, regardless what you are wearing.

I really don't see what the big deal is, seems to me that there are a few army types who can't handle being told what to do from someone in a Navy uniform.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

and I am going to have to point out the obvious here...seeing some (usually) out of shape guy in (frequently) wrinkled NCDs and poorly polished boots with a ball hat on is NOT going to "turn that around".

I have been around Halifax since 94 and there are some CADPAT wearing types wearing various coloured berets with various regimental cap badges that look pretty fat themselves. Its not just a naval problem. Just because you wear cadpat does not make you the poster boy for fitness.

 

[Loachman]

No it doesn't, as being in garrison doesn't fit in any of those situations.

"OTHER APPROVED TRG SITUATIONS", depending upon how tightly/loosely it's interpreted, and who can "approve", could cover a lot.

 

[PuckChaser]

I really don't see what the big deal is, seems to me that there are a few army types who can't handle being told what to do from someone in a Navy uniform.

If there was an actual decent reason for this NCD change, I would agree with it. However, it just seems like a far-fetched idea to try to fix recruiting. Instead of just making a blanket uniform change, why don't the pers making the big bucks sit down and actually figure out why they can't attract recruits?

 

[Pil]

I think I've solved the majority of problems people have on this thread:

P = Naval Ranks will have to be addressed by their rank, no more excuses if you get the rank wrong.
S = Try really hard to remember the naval rank. If you are in the navy and someone get's your rank wrong either ignore it, because no one actually makes a big deal of it. Or, if you feel you must, politely correct them. Don't take it personally.

P = But those sailors wear the same colour beret as me! It's an outrage.
S = The decison was made long ago and isn't going to reverse itself. It's probably worth moving on now. We all know you tankers just wanted to raise your LCF by copying Che Guevera and looking like the Croatian Military Police.

P = There is no reason for people to collect Field Pay just because they are serving in a field unit. They don't do field work!
S = Neither do the Ops, Canteen Queens, Kit shop guys, Perma duty Sgts, QMSI and a billion other people in my unit, but they still get the pay. At the end of the day one, someone who probably works just as hard as you do (I know, hard to beleive, but there are others who work just as hard as you) get's a little extra cash to buy the baby some diapers, familiy some food OR give a portion of their field pay to families of the fallen or troops in need.

P = The sailors are a bunch of fat asses.
S = True. So's the rest of the military.

P = This isn't going to help recruiting at all.
S = Nope. But some high up sailors were feeling bad about their job because "No one recognized them for their hard work. "(because like you, they think they're the hardest working people). Then they complained enough and someone disguised it as a recruiting initative. Lesson learned = complaining works.


Sorry, back on topic. Just wanted to get in on the dick stepping over an innocuous issue.

 

[NCRCrow]

Outstanding post..PIL here is all my posting points!!!

The wearing of NCD's may have something to do with the senior services 100 year centennial celebration. Last time we had to wear our DEU's as our dress of the day. Hope this does not happen!

and don't lump us Navy guys as fat asses! I did OP ATHENA Roto O and boy oh boy some of you Army folk should have said no to dessert!

nice post PIL!

 

[Pil]

and don't lump us Navy guys as fat asses! I did OP ATHENA Roto O and boy oh boy some of you Army folk should have said no to dessert!

Hey dude, I wasn't ragging on ya! I've managed to gather a large belly while keeping my legs and arms skinny. I'm the worst kind of fat, skinny fat. But my wife still manages to lie and say she'd rather have my soft mid section to Jason Stathams hard abs any day.

 

[PMedMoe]

How about this, if you are not in the field, you shouldn't collect LDA, regardless what you are wearing.

By that reasoning, sea pay shouldn't be collected unless one is actually at sea, not just posted to a ship.

 

[meni0n]

"OTHER APPROVED TRG SITUATIONS", depending upon how tightly/loosely it's interpreted, and who can "approve", could cover a lot.

Sitting around the lines is not a training situation and I don`t see how it can be justified as one.

 

[Loachman]

Sitting around the lines is not a training situation

Which is probably why it says "TRG SITUATIONS" rather than "sitting around the lines".

 

[Fishbone Jones]

P = But those sailors wear the same colour beret as me! It's an outrage.
S = The decison was made long ago and isn't going to reverse itself. It's probably worth moving on now. We all know you tankers just wanted to raise your LCF by copying Che Guevera and looking like the Croatian Military Police.

You should really know what you're talking about before you start running your gate.

 

[Pil]

You should really know what you're talking about before you start running your gate.

: Just one mans light hearted opinion. No need to sulk.

Have a good night.

 

[sm1lodon]

I think at the end of the day it's just going to exclude people and make them not feel like part of the team.

Here you've had people acting like and dressing like everyone else they work with (assuming it's mixed company), and now all of a sudden you'll have the oddball standing out like a sore thumb.

I don't think it has anything to do with being proud of your trade more than it does being part of a team.  I'm about as hardcore proud of being in the Army as one can be, but if I for whatever reason were on a sub I would be more than happy to wear the sub's dress of the day.

There is plenty of time to show your affiliation on formal days like parades and mess dinners...why break up the team like this?

I disagree. It doesn't break up a team to allow people from whatever branch of the service in which they enlisted to proudly wear the uniform that readily visibly identifies them as such. If you are in a team environment, everyone is going to know what branch everyone is from anyway, if they work together on a day-to-day basis, so sailors actually looking like sailors and army guys looking like army guys isn't going to hurt ANYTHING, least of all, morale. Being proud to be army doesn't automatically mean you think everyone you work with who is not wearing a full Afghanistan combat loadout is somehow genetically, somatically, and congenitally inferior.

I always thought it looked kind of ridiculous to see a sailor in a non-land-combat situation walking around in army combat dress. What for?

I have to agree that adding visibility to the navy personnel isn't going to do anything to impede recruiting, either, in my opinion. Like I heard someone say once "Canadian navy? What navy?" Our navy will profit, I think, from increased visibility.

 

[tree hugger]

I know there are plenty of sailor types here at Pet, however I have yet to see a set of NCD's walking about.

 

[CallOfDuty]

I have to agree that adding visibility to the navy personnel isn't going to do anything to impede recruiting, either, in my opinion. Like I heard someone say once "Canadian navy? What navy?" Our navy will profit, I think, from increased visibility.

    Funny thing about the navy's visibility.  When I had my naval uniform on and riding the bus back and forth to work, I would have people ask me what kind of outfit I had on.  When I would tell them Navy...they would ask if I meant coast guard?  Or is the navy part of those grey boats that are in the harbour?
  This is in HALIFAX!!!!!!!!