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Saddam in his Underoos!

Gramps

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This just cant be a good thing. I don't think that this would make the job of any troops in Iraq or Afghanistan any easier. With the Newsweek article about the Q'uran abuse in Guantanamo Bay many people in the Arab/Muslim world are already upset I think this one could just make things worse. Instead of posting the article here is the link to the CBC story.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/05/20/saddampics0520.html
 
Aaahh..the British Press, one step above the National Enquirer and the Auto Trader.
What will they publish next?
The pope in fishnets?
 
The same photo was also published on the fron page of the New York Post. The Pope in Fisnets eh? Now that would be news worthy. Cheers
 
Che said:
Aaahh..the British Press, one step above the National Enquirer and the Auto Trader.
...

Compared to, say, The New York Times and Newsweek the British tabloids are paragons of journalistic virtue: they usually have their facts right â “ sensational and in poor taste, to be sure, but, by and large, right.  It is the effect of a free market â “ and few markets are as free or as cutthroat as the UK newspaper market â “ that competition tends to breed quality.  The gutter press is alive and well, mainly, in the USA and Canada where The New York Times, Toronto Star, Fox and our own CBC have scant respect for the truth and routinely propagandize when reporting fails to sell enough soap. 
 
Not with the Sun. It is akin to the National Enquirer and is a shabby source at best. But I do agree somewhat on many of the North American media outlets especially CNN where ratings and numbers out weigh the facts.
 
Stop picking on THE SUN.........

they have the page 3 girl    ;D
 
I would never pick on the Page 3 girls just the content of the reporting.
 
I must admit that I haven't availed myself of the pleasures of the Sun since Samantha Fox graced page 3, and she's old enough to be a grandmother to some army.ca members.

If memory serves the Sun was our primary source of sports news and harmless scandal â “ it had pride of place in countless officers' mess ante rooms, right beside the Times, the Telegraph and ancient copies of Country Life because it was full of things people actually wanted to know â “ Rangers 2, Celtic Nil, etc.

But: also, if memory serves, the Sun gets sued on a regular basis and rarely coughs up money â “ despite being a salacious rag, etc.  Its facts are usually just that: facts.  This is in stark contrast to The New York Times, Newsweek and the like.
 
Okay. I have seen that we have gone a bit off topic. My original intent was to stir up a discussion on what people thought about the photos being printed and the articles in general however, I would also like to see peoples' opinions about the media in general too. Meaning the effect that this could possibly have on those serving in these hot spots as we speak. Cheers.
 
The jsutification for publishing these pics were that Saddam gave no mercy to those he punished or incarcerated. Does that mean allied forces in Iraq should have the same disregard for civillian life that al-zarqawi has?. IMHO these pics make the trial and judicial process look like a big joke.Maybee they should publish stories of those hurt by Saddam instead but I guess that wouldn't sell as many copies.
 
SHELLDRAKE. I think you make some very good points and I even agree with you (I know sometimes I can be a bit obnoxious in getting my opinion across but here I do agree 100%). I do think though if there were some of the atrocities committed by Saddam and his whole administration that it could sell many copies but on the same token I don't think that the general population wants to hear or accept it. On the point of the judicial process, well there e are many examples of this that also include the "detainees" in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba but I guess that is a slightly different topic. Forgive me if I rant I have had a few belts of Glenmorangie and am not totally coherent right now. Cheers.
 


Well it sure shows which way the cookie crumbles,a certain large Arab T.V. Network wouldn't show those
pictures because they were in poor taste, but Burnt American Body Parts hanging from bridges, Be-headings and other Atrocities seem to be
perfectly acceptable for the Arab World.

However, whether for profit or souvenirs, these idiots with cameras are just as dangerous as the insurgents.
At least their the enemy.

 
FastEddy said:
However, whether for profit or souvenirs, these idiots with cameras are just as dangerous as the insurgents.

In a 4GW conflict, this is 100% on the money.  What did more damage to the US effort in Iraq, the constant casualties or Abu Ghraib?  Same with Vietnam, was it daily casualty lists, or was it Tet, the Pyhrric victory.

War of Perception indeed....
 
rant

I'm afraid I have a bit of a narrow view of the media.

The function of any journal: be it Foreign Affairs or The Economist or The Sun or mass media like the CBC or CNN is to propagate its proprietor's views while earning enough revenue to qualify as something other than idiosyncratic folly.

'Journals' â “ broadly, including print, electronic, broadcasting and narrowcasting â “ have two forms: information or entertainment - most often, some combination of both.

The primary function of journalists is to fill up the white spaces not sold to advertisers with something which will attract customers: sports, sex, scandal, murder and mayhem work best, given the nature of mankind.  This applies, equally, to public broadcasters and the most respected private journals â “ all are propagandizing, some with a fair degree of balance but, in most cases, including e.g. the CBC, with a one sided message.  Sometimes (e.g. The Economist and, to its credit, TORSTAR) the editorial board is up-front in announcing its biases, in other cases, The New York Times and our own CBC the editorial boards take pains to try to hide their biases â “ they lie to their audiences in the firm, well founded hope that the audience â “ being largely informed by TV, is to ill informed to notice.

We know that most Canadians (like most Americans and Brits and Germans and, now, Arabs, Indians and Chinese, too) get most of their information from television â “ which, I guess, explains a lot.

Although we like to blame it, the mass news media usually follows social trends; they (the trends) are led from elsewhere â “ an educated elite and the entertainment industry.  I think that Samuel Goldwyn, Louis B. Meyer and Lowell Thomas had a far greater influence on American (and Canadian) social and political values than did C.L. Sulzberger or Peter C. Newman.  So, too, did the people who financed their enterprises.

I am harping on this, a bit, because of, inter alia a piece in today's Globe and Mail at: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050521.wsaddam0521/BNStory/International/ (You don't need a subscription to read it so I will not copy it all.)

Two things stand out:

1.
Ziad al-Khasawneh, a member of Mr. Hussein's defence team, said he planned to sue The Sun for publishing the photos, alleging that they were "an insult to humanity, Arabs and the Iraqi people."

I don't know about humanity but, it seems to me, that the proprietor of both The Sun and the New York Post (Rupert Murdoch) hired publishers who shared his global social and political views.  I believe he is content that his newspapers are displaying contempt for Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi people and the Arabs.  That may not be good 4th generation warfare, etc, but it is his right: freedom of the press belongs to those who own one.

2.
"People the world over, whether they detest Saddam Hussein or not, will see this as yet another abuse of a prisoner in U.S. custody and that cannot bode well for the United States," said Mary Ellen O'Connell, an expert on the law of war at Ohio State University.

She said that publishing the photos was "irresponsible" because the Geneva Conventions makes it clear that PoWs should not be shown in a demeaning fashion. "I think that obligation extends to everyone in society, including journalists," she said in an interview from Columbus, Ohio. "I think humiliation is a form of abuse of prisoners."

This line: "I think that obligation extends to everyone in society, including journalists," is arrant nonsense.  Prof. O'Connell's appalling lack of scholarship explains why we end up doing dumb things as Victor Davis Hanson explains in the article a-majoor posted at: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22129/post-217925.html#msg217925

We, in the modern, secular, civilized, englightened, liberal West may, mostly will and always should shrug our shoulders and laugh when e.g The Sun goes over the top, again, and celebrates sex, scandal and human degradation â “ all that's left to fill up the white spaces now that Lady Di's lovers are out of the spotlight.  The fact that other people, in other, dark, illiberal, medieval theocracies will take all this seriously merely illustrates that they are unable cope with the modern world â “ the one into which they were born.  That inability spells their doom.  It may be a violent, bloody doom but there is no hope for them.

/rant

 
Hopefully they find the dipshit (apparently military nonetheless) who took/found these photos and then sold them off to the Sun (dumb motherfucker), and hand him over to a squad of Marines with axehandles who proceed to take him out behind the woodshed.

As for how this "inflames the Arab street", well if they're gonna get a case of the ass over these photos, then they're far more stupid, ignorant, and mediveal than even I gave them credit for.
 
"Well it sure shows which way the cookie crumbles,a certain large Arab T.V. Network wouldn't show those
pictures because they were in poor taste, but Burnt American Body Parts hanging from bridges, Be-headings and other Atrocities seem to be
perfectly acceptable for the Arab World."

I seem to remember seeing those burnt bodies on CBC and on BBC not just Al Jazeera. You are correct that they don't show the photos but they do have a couple of articles on it. Here is one of them.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/65D62F57-F6C0-44ED-B815-D25A1933781F.htm


 
Gramps said:
"Well it sure shows which way the cookie crumbles,a certain large Arab T.V. Network wouldn't show those
pictures because they were in poor taste, but Burnt American Body Parts hanging from bridges, Be-headings and other Atrocities seem to be
perfectly acceptable for the Arab World."

I seem to remember seeing those burnt bodies on CBC and on BBC not just Al Jazeera. You are correct that they don't show the photos but they do have a couple of articles on it. Here is one of them.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/65D62F57-F6C0-44ED-B815-D25A1933781F.htm

I think you have missed the point. And by the way I would imagine the reason we showed the images, was to illustrate and enforce the savagery of the insurgents.

As for Al Jazeera's English article, its almost word for word of the Western copy, it doesn't seem to indicate  
or represent the Arab take on the incident.

I guess maybe some people might feel that Al Jazeera might be the New Voice of Truth & Freedom, I only
wonder for who?.
 
"I think you have missed the point. And by the way I would imagine the reason we showed the images, was to illustrate and enforce the savagery of the insurgents."

No I got your point. Are you sure the images were shown to show savegry or to get people to watch their broadcast? I think its a little bit of each. And who is to say that Al Jazeera didnt show them for the same reasons?
 
Edward Campbell said:
The fact that other people, in other, dark, illiberal, medieval theocracies will take all this seriously merely illustrates that they are unable cope with the modern world â “ the one into which they were born.   That inability spells their doom.   It may be a violent, bloody doom but there is no hope for them.

Or it may be that they place things like honour (anger of having a fellow Arab, as despicable as he may be, mocked by Westerners who took him into captivity) over the humour of guessing what colour Princess Di's panties were - imagine that.

You are right though, there is a definite discord between our worldview and that of others.   Whose is decadent remains to be seen....

Cheers,
Infanteer
 
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