Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread

[X-mo-1979]

We had to fill out a survey last year while deployed about the changing criteria.The consensus with all my guys was that  anyone dying in a service accident etc should receive it as well.However they also were asking about service related injuries.Which we said no to as all we could picture is someone walking around with a wound stripe who broke a fibula playing ball hockey in KAF.We all agreed it would take away from the injured personnel whom got that way due to enemy action.

 

[vonGarvin]

I am not suggesting a direct corallation to handing out medals based on the old Nazi system by the way.

The German honours and awards system as seen in the Second World War wasn't so much a "Nazi" system as it was a German system.  As an example to contrast, in our system, there are certain medals one can earn based on the event.  So, "Smokey" Smith fends off a German platoon single-handedly and earns the highest honour: the VC. If it were "Rauchich" Schmidt of the Wehrmacht fending off an Allied platoon single-handedly, the medal he would earn would depend on whether or not it were his first honour.  If so, he would get the Iron Cross, second class.  Next honour would be the first class, then on to the Knight's Cross, and so forth.

 

[mariomike]

The consensus with all my guys was that  anyone dying in a service accident etc should receive it as well.

Will it also include fatal heart attacks and cerebrovascular accident ( strokes )? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I wonder if "service related" will mean the same thing as "line of duty". If so, it may have a very broad definition.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Will it also include fatal heart attacks and cerebrovascular accident ( strokes )? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I wonder if "service related" will mean the same thing as "line of duty". If so, it may have a very broad definition.

The simple answer is yes (with a "maybe" depending on where and when it happens).

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=SM

Eligible cases include but are not limited to:

. . .

death related to service, including:
during training or operations, following a vehicle accident, plane crash, shipwreck, parachute or diving accident, loss at sea, an accidental discharge of weapons, an ammunition handling accident, a fire or explosion, fatal fall, heart attack or as a result of a heat stroke, physical exhaustion or stress during mandated training;
accidental death when travelling on duty;
death as a result of metal disorders that are, based on the review by a qualified mental health care practitioner, directly attributable to military service.

 

[mariomike]

Thank you. I had not read that link. It is specific and answered my question!
( I should have done a more thorough search before asking! )

Peter Worthington:
"There are reasons to be wary of new Sacrifice Medal, which imbues virtue on those who are wounded"
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/peter_worthington/2009/01/14/8016636-sun.html

 

[Loachman]

So where does this end?

A death in a military vehicle accident in, say, Meaford now equates to a death resulting from an IED strike in theatre.

This botched medal has now essentially become a Memorial Cross duplicate, except surviving family members get, collectively, three Memorial Crosses but only one Sacrifice Medal. Somebody is going to protest the "fairness" of that, soon, no doubt, and argue for three Sacrifice Medals too.

And if a death is a death is a death, regardless of location or circumstance other than it simply be attrbutable to miltary service, how long until somebody successfully argues that an injury is an injury is an injury, regardless of location or circumstance?

The wound stripe was so much simpler, better understood, less controversial, and more indicative of its wearer's experience. We are all used to seeing medals, but the first wound stripe that I saw on a serving member's uniform caused something akin to mild shock. It stood out, like no medal could.

All that this has done is cause bitterness and ill will while trashing a significant and meaningful Canadian tradition, and I suspect that many will silently question its meaning when they see people wearing it. Remember all of those Purple Heart jokes on MASH?

 

[Rheostatic]

The DH&R page has been updated:

The Medal was first announced on 29 August 2008 but some issues quickly became apparent, especially with regards to the ineligibility of accidental deaths. The Minister of National Defence asked the Chief of the Defence staff to conduct a review of the existing criteria and make recommendations to the appropriate government committee. The inaugural presentation ceremony, initially planned for 12 November 2008, was postponed until the conclusion of the review. The review resulted in a broadening of the posthumous criteria of the Medal to cover all service-related deaths rather that only those which were the direct result of hostile action. This change brought the posthumous aspect of the Medal in line with the newly amended criteria for the Memorial Cross, Memorial Scroll, Memorial Bar and for inclusion in the 7th Book of Remembrance. The other aspects of the Medal, including the criteria for wounded (which remained linked to hostile action and therefore to the old Wound Stripe which it replaced), the start date and the design of the Medal remained unchanged.

 

[mariomike]

From yesterday's Sun.
Peter Worthington:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/peter_worthington/2009/10/23/11497346-sun.html

 

[X-mo-1979]

The wound stripe was so much simpler, better understood, less controversial, and more indicative of its wearer's experience. We are all used to seeing medals, but the first wound stripe that I saw on a serving member's uniform caused something akin to mild shock. It stood out, like no medal could.

Couldnt agree more.

All that this has done is cause bitterness and ill will while trashing a significant and meaningful Canadian tradition, and I suspect that many will silently question its meaning when they see people wearing it. Remember all of those Purple Heart jokes on MASH?

And it already has.there are a few questionable wearers kicking around...and ton's of people bitter that the person got anything for it.Breaking a leg oversea's does not indicate a would stripe/metal in most of our eyes...yet there is a one walking around..his officer musta been able to write beautiful poetry I guess.And here he is looking the same as a guy who took rounds during a TIC.

Wait for it.Man "Dive's" for cover in KAF and sprains ankle.Sacrifice metal.

 

[catalyst]

Or...........

Timmies Worker burns hand while pouring coffee during rocket attack

(insert civilian cleaner if you wish)

I agree with Loachman. I have only seen a wound stripe once and it was a lot more striking than the wearer's medals.

 

[RHFC_piper]

Couldnt agree more.And it already has.there are a few questionable wearers kicking around...and ton's of people bitter that the person got anything for it.Breaking a leg oversea's does not indicate a would stripe/metal in most of our eyes...yet there is a one walking around..his officer musta been able to write beautiful poetry I guess.And here he is looking the same as a guy who took rounds during a TIC.

Wait for it.Man "Dive's" for cover in KAF and sprains ankle.Sacrifice metal.

It's a slippery slope on which we're dancing;  I (and 38 others) was eating breakfast and got hit by friendly fire, not a TIC, yet I wear a wound stripe... only qualifying as I was eating breakfast less than a kilometer from a Taliban strong point, during a major operation.  Point being; as much as I dislike the idea of what people are turning the sacrifice medal into, I can understand why it's becoming such an issue.  The current criteria aren't as cut and dry as they may seem, but the fact that they're "old" and firmly in place makes them seem more venerated.  Now that an opertunity has come to rewrite the criteria, I'm really not that surprised that so many new ones have been added... everyone wants equal representation. 
But, I do agree that the additional criteria are diminishing the 'award', but no more than the stigma attached to wearing a medal that basically indicates that you were either unlucky or incompetant; which is the common reflection on the Purple Heart. It seems like adding insult to injury, almost literally, moving what was once a mere stripe up to a large gong, which, whether optional or not, will be noticed when missing.  A stripe can disappear from a sleave more discreatly than a gong from a rack.
But I digress; if I don't accept it, my GCS might get lonely.

I agree with Loachman. I have only seen a wound stripe once and it was a lot more striking than the wearer's medals.

Some of those wearing the wound stripe may on have one medal...

But I agree; it does become much more striking... especially when you cannot be sure of how many times that one medal has been awarded.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Let's face it.The medal is turning into a joke.Many good buddies came home with that medal,and all for just reasons.there was one little turd who got written up when he broke his leg....as he was rushing to get back in his vehicle.Not from fire...but due to the geographical area and precieved threat.Not to mention their OC seemed to think they were war heros,and pumped it into their heads.We now have a large group of people who are convinced that their tour was the last and only tour in Astan...and that was about 2-3 years ago.A well decorated group of soldiers.

DEATH OR WOUNDS AS A DIRECT RESULT OF FRIENDLY FIRE AIMED AT A HOSTILE FORCE  OR WHAT IS OR WAS THOUGHT TO BE A HOSTILE FORCE

Thats the reason you got it.

Now how that can be misconstrued.(This is just for entertainment value)

Clerk smoking on those high up ISO stairs in KAF.Local national walks out with a mop on his shoulder and stops to look at the Clerk smoking (commenting on her sluttyness in his head as her hair blows in the wind).Clerk glances over and see LN with RPG on his shoulder and jumps off staircase.Breaks leg.

She thought it was a threat.
Sacrifice medal

 

[PMedMoe]

(commenting on her sluttyness in his head as her hair blows in the wind).

Tell us how you really feel, why don't ya?  :

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Let's keep the discussion meaningful folks. Enough of the hypotheticals and hyperboyle.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Dean22]

I would say that the bullet that hit him was fairly hostile, even if only to himself.

Why can't we class this differently and solve the issue?

Instead of classifying it by who your attacker was why don't we classify it by if the action was hostile.

Would someone get the medal if they were clearing friendly mines (of another military) and they died?

If military x sees the Canadian Forces and thinks they are Taliban and begins to engage them is that not a hostile force? They are shooting at you so I don't see it as very friendly .

(This reminds me of the accidental US bomb drops on Canadian soldiers we had a while ago. Did anyone check to see if they received the award?)

But, I would agree this discussion is very hard to do especially with the name of the medal.

The medal's name at the very least should be changed from sacrifice because I believe in my mind that any CF member overseas is making a sacrifice of their well being for the CF, their people and their country.

 

[Steel Badger]

Lane Warning!

 

[kratz]

I would prefer to retain the Wound Stripe IMO.

[off topic]
This discussion and some others brings up one comment that I have not seen. 10-15 years ago, it was uncommon to see a member with two rows of medals in their entire career. During that time, I often heard members complain how hard it was to earn recognition. Now there are operations and opportunities, some of the accepted rules are being changed. Is that so bad?[/end]

While I support the wound stripe, it does not mean I question the need for a medal.

 

[HItorMiss]

I have made my feelings very clear on this medal.

So when I am finally "Awarded" it and must take down my wound stripe I will not be putting it up. Seeing that it is an award and thus must be worn I will gladly accept continual jackings and or charges for being out of dress to protest this travesty and mockery.

I tried to refuse the award (and take down my stripe) as well but was ordered  to receive it so I am left with no other way to show my disgust.

 

[forgotten]

Looks like the Govt. has made its decision and its sticking to its guns to issue the medal from October 7, 2001 on and anyone prior to that date will NOT get issued the new medal..I do have my wound stripe and I am content with that..The kids that made the sacrifice in "GHAN" do deserve the medal time for us ol farts to move aside and not delay the issue of this medal.    http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Department-Of-National-Defence-1061704.html :yellow:

 

[bick]

First 46 to be awarded 9 Nov 09.

www.marketwire.com%2Fpress-release%2FGovernor-General-Of-Canada-1070926.html&h=1c821d05f20a0b5c469b1ee6f02f75f1