Russia's Mistral class LHDs: updates

[McG]

Russia has already been training on the ship.  What are the chances that it does not already have electronic snooping devices hidden on board?

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

A lot more information would need to be known about these 2 particular vessels in the Mistral class. After all, these 2 in particular were built for the Russian Navy, not the Canadian Navy or any other NATO maritime force.

Are the crew accommodations able a fit for our multi-gender navy?
Are the electronics, cabling and related hardware NATO standard or Russian Standard.
What type of fuel is used for the main engines [what are the main engines>>> are they standard Mistral fit or something else/
Are the hangar spaces able to accommodate our helicopters or Russian helicopters- ie, have they been modified?
...and the list could go on and on.....

And besides all of that, the RCN is having problems crewing the diminishing fleet that it already has, let alone actually cutting steel for supply ships and the like.

In my opinion, forget about these cursed Franco-Russian ships, stay focused on the few ships in good working order that are currently being semi-upgraded in the fleet, and maybe let the dream live on in the half assed sort of way that things are currently happening, but settle on lower expectations of no more than 6 or 8 new, fairly useless "combatant" ships + 2 oilers that "may" materialize over the next 20 years. 

Not meaning to be a pessimist, just being realistic and pragmatic>>> this is Canada, unfortunately now rapidly becoming a "pretend" naval power.






   

The other side of that equation is "What is it worth to deny an increasingly aggressive Russia a pair of ice-hardened LPH's?  That applies directly to Canada's arctic sovereignty and also in a larger NATO context I the Black Sea, Mediterranean, Baltic, etc."

So refit costs or not, I think the question is bigger just looking at if they fit conveniently into our current structure in isolation.


M.

 

[CougarKing]

The ongoing Mistral saga is affecting France's other potential sales:

Defense News

Poland Says French-Russian Warship Deal Raises Issues for Missile Shield
Sep. 29, 2014 - 02:22PM  |  By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

WARSAW, POLAND — Poland on Monday said a possible French deal to supply Russia with warships was making it difficult for Warsaw to choose French suppliers for its planned missile shield.

“I can’t hide the fact that the Mistral (warship contract) is not helping us make positive decisions” about French missile shield suppliers, Polish Defence Minister Tomasz Siemoniak said in an interview published in the Rzeczpospolita daily.

France said earlier this month that it had suspended the delivery of two warships to Russia in a €1.2 billion ($1.6 billion) deal amid widespread criticism by NATO allies worried by Moscow’s role in the Ukraine crisis.

French President Francois Hollande then said he would decide in October whether or not to nix the lucrative deal.

“We are critical of this transaction. Nobody has ever hidden this fact from our French partners,” Siemoniak said.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

Regardless of what one's views are when it comes to France's stance on cancelling or pursuing the Mistral class LHDs' sale to Russia, wouldn't some of you agree that the protester's use of the model in the way pictured below is a waste of a perfectly good model ship? Not sure what scale it is, but I think its maker definitely put a lot of effort to make it look more than a simple "aircraft carrier" that most laymen would see these assault ships.

Picture source: Defense News

France Wrestles With Legal Issues Ahead of Mistral Decision
Oct. 5, 2014 - 02:17PM  |  By PIERRE TRAN

PARIS — France is expected to decide within the coming month whether to deliver a Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia, and the letter of the law looms large with officials examining the sale contract as they weigh the government’s options, legal and defense specialists said.

Key to those determinations is whether the force majeure clause allows France to suspend and cancel the controversial contract, which calls for a hand over of the warship at the end of October or early November.

But one thing has become clear: President François Hollande’s Sept. 6 statement on the eve of the NATO summit was widely misinterpreted as suspending the contract.

Hollande carefully avoided saying it was suspended, as that would have “called into question the contract,” Jean-Pierre Maulny, deputy director of think tank Institut des Relations Internationales et Stratégique. “It was a sensitive statement” aimed at keeping the contract intact and avoiding a claim for financial penalty, he said.

“It’s not in suspension,” a legal expert said. “The statement was pure politics.”

(...SNIPPED)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Fresh coat of paint and it will be good as new!

 

[CougarKing]

Russia really wants the 2 Mistrals...that it's even willing to go to court for them.

Moscow Times

Russia Threatens to Sue France If Mistral Warship Isn't Delivered
The Moscow Times

Oct. 24 2014 13:32 Last edited 13:33

Russia will take France to court if Paris cancels the delivery of the first of two Mistral-class warships due to be handed over to the Russian Navy within the next two weeks, a top Kremlin official said Friday.
France has been under huge pressure from its allies to nix the sale of the ships over Russia's actions in Ukraine, but if Paris reneges on the 1.2 billion euro ($1.5 billion) deal, "there will be a court appeal and a demand for compensation for breach of contract, as is done throughout the civilized world," President Vladimir Putin's chief of staff Sergei Ivanov was quoted as saying by the RIA Novosti news agency.
The ball is entirely in Paris' court, he added.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

Seems we'll have to wait longer for Hollande's final decision:

Defense News

Mistral Decision Coming Next Month
Oct. 28, 2014 - 08:44PM  |  By PIERRE TRAN

PARIS — French President François Hollande will decide in November whether France will go ahead with a delivery of the Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia, Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said on Tuesday.

Sources have said previously that a decision was expected in either late October or early November.

“In early September, the president said that if the political conditions did not change, he could not imagine authorizing a delivery,” Le Drian told journalists at the Euronaval trade show.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It certainly highlights the difficulties and potential pitfalls of buying foreign.

 

[CougarKing]

The clock is ticking till the deadline; let' see what happens on Nov. 14.

Defense News

Russia Says France Due To Hand Over First Warship Nov. 14
Oct. 29, 2014 - 02:52PM  |  By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

  MOSCOW — Russia said Wednesday that France is still due to complete the controversial handover of a warship next month, despite pressure for the deal to be scrapped over Moscow’s role in the Ukraine crisis.

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said the country’s state-run arms dealer had received an invitation to attend a ceremony on Nov. 14 for the handing over of the first of two Mistral helicopter carriers, Russian news agencies reported.

“From the point of view of the technical fulfillment of the contract, everything is going to plan,” Rogozin said.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

Still no decision yet, even if it's almost the Nov.14 deadline as of this poting...

France: Still No Date For Warship Delivery To Russia
Nov. 12, 2014 
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

(...EDITED)

"No delivery date can be fixed at this stage. The president of the Republic has said that a definitive decision will come at the right moment, taking into account all the responsibilities that come with this decision, which is not a simple decision."

- Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian

The first of two mammoth Mistral-class assault ships was supposed to be delivered on Friday according to the original deal signed in 2011.

France faces a difficult choice. Ditching the contract will cost it billions of dollars and threatens jobs. But going ahead would incur NATO's wrath and heighten fears in Poland and the Baltic states, which are concerned that Russia's recent aggression may soon turn in their direction.


Defense News

 

[CougarKing]

A definite suspension this time?

Defense News

France Suspends Mistral Warship Delivery to Russia
Nov. 25, 2014 - 09:49AM  |  By PIERRE TRAN

PARIS — French President François Hollande has placed a hold on the delivery of the first Mistral helicopter carrier to Russia in view of the deadly conflict in east Ukraine, the president’s office said on Tuesday.

“The president of the republic considers the present situation in east Ukraine still does not allow the delivery of the first [projection and command ship],” the Elysée president’s office said in a statement. “He has decided that it is appropriate to suspend, until further notice, the examination of the request for export authorization for the first [projection and command ship] to the Russian Federation.”

(...SNIPPED)

 

[MilEME09]

I think it would be a clearer signal of what France plans to do if it sends those 600 Russian sailors home. Though if i were them I wouldn't be minding the vacation in southern france right now.

 

[CougarKing]

2 belated updates from last month; apparently this French shipyard's union are on Putin's side.

France launches second Mistral-class vessel
[naval-technology] - 21 November 2014

Sevastopol is one of two vessels built as part of a $1.5bn deal signed by France and Russia in June 2011, Sputnik news agency reported.
The first carrier, Vladivostok, is expected to join the Russian Navy by the end of this year, followed by Sevastopol next year.

Deliveries were suspended in October, following criticism from the UK and US regarding Moscow's reported involvement in the Ukrainian crisis.

‘Outraged’ French union urges Hollande to honor Mistral deal, 2,500 jobs at stake

The union expressed “shock and outrage,” Le Figaro reports, after Paris postponed the delivery on the Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia due to pressure from the US and EU, which imposed several waves of sanctions against Moscow after Crimea joined Russia over the Ukraine crisis.

President Francois Hollande’s decision has put 2,500 workers at risk of redundancy, which is absolutely unacceptable, Workers’ Force representatives told Le Figaro newspaper.

[rt.com]

An aerial view shows the Mistral-class helicopter carrier Sevastopol at the STX Les Chantiers de l'Atlantique shipyard site in Saint-Nazaire, western France, September 22, 2014. (Reuters/Stephane Mahe)
-

Photo from RIA Novosti

other source: unian.info

 

[CougarKing]

An ultimatum from Moscow?

Russia to France: Give Us the Mistrals or a Refund

By: Sam LaGrone
Published: December 8, 2014

Mistral-class helicopter carrier Vladivostok via Reuters

Russia has given the French government a choice, either deliver the two promised Mistral-class amphibious warships to the Russian Navy or refund the purchase price of the $1.53 billion program, a Russian foreign policy official told reporters on Monday.

“Both options will suit us — either the ships or the money. The money spent must be recovered,” Kremlin foreign policy aide Yuri Ushakov told reporters on Monday, following a quickly organized Saturday meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and French President François Hollande in the Moscow airport.

Delivery of the two custom built variants of the 21,000-ton French Mistral amphibious warships to Russia has been stalled by the Hollande government since September over concerns of the ongoing fighting between Russian backed separatists and the Ukrainian government.

Hollande said the delivery of the two ships would be tied to the implementation of the so-called Minsk Protocol — a September ceasefire agreement between separatists, Russia and Ukraine.


USNI News

 

[MilEME09]

Well the refund option means they need to sell the ships to someone else

 

[CougarKing]

It's looking more and more like Moscow won't be getting the first Mistral...

Defense News

Shipbuilder: Russian Mistral Sailors To Leave France
Dec. 17, 2014 - 04:31PM  |  By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

PARIS — About 400 Russian sailors are returning home, French shipbuilder DCNS said Wednesday, as Paris weighs whether to deliver the Mistral-class warship to Russia amid the Ukraine crisis.

“I can confirm that the Russian sailors will return (to Russia) before the end of year,” said a DCNS spokesman.

The spokesman did not give a date of departure and could not say whether they would return for more training on the high-tech vessel

(...SNIPPED)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well the refund option means they need to sell the ships to someone else

:cdnsalute: HMCS Vladivostok  :cdnsalute:

or HMCS Borden or HMCS General Elmsley's  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Siberian_Expeditionary_Force

 

[Privateer]

:cdnsalute: HMCS Vladivostok  :cdnsalute:

or HMCS Borden or HMCS General Elmsley's  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Siberian_Expeditionary_Force

Too recent for the current government.  They'd probably prefer HMCS Balaclava, or HMCS Stevastopol, which have the added benefit of having a Crimean context.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

One of the wonderful things with these two babies, is that an important part of the "Russianizing" mods made to the original design was to make the hull ice-strenghtened and add whole-ship extra insulation and heating for Arctic operation. We would only have to "upgrade" the electrical, replace the basic sets of radars (since the actual military comms and radars + other military electronics were to be added once in Russia) and replace all the tags on the equipment to French/English instead of cyrillic.

 

[Danjanou]

Too recent for the current government.  They'd probably prefer HMCS Balaclava, or HMCS Stevastopol, which have the added benefit of having a Crimean context.

HMCS Alexander Roberts Dunn VC  8)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Roberts_Dunn