- Reaction score
DAP: take the ressources from 2 Wing?
dapaterson said:While the military enjoys playing the "woe is me" game, there is more than adequate blame to go to the military and not to PWGSC, Treasury Board, or anyone else. Inevitably, trying to game the system results in delays. Then the APS rolls around, new people come in with new ideas on how to game the system, further delays are realized... and the grownups (inside and outside DND) have even less trust in the products rolled out.
dapaterson said:Again, it requires a continued commitment of resources to do so. Don't say "we can stop things", say precisely what you will stop. Notice that with the purchase of tail #5 there was no mention of an increase in YFR for the fleet; that's why the lifecycle costs are so low. Much of the extra flyign being done this year is in support of operations, and therefore that YFR, and related increase in maintenance costs, is funded separately. There is no more money in the baseline to bring on more CC177s and fly them.
dapaterson said:Variable costs include the number of flight crews, training for that number of crews on a replacement basis, O&M to support those additional personnel, fuel, maintenance and overhaul for the fleets... again, what are you going to stop doing to fund this. And don't engage in the perpetual armchair quarterback of "we'll find it somewhere" - I want you to say precisely what you will stop doing to fund this. Of course, to do so you need to do a detailed assessment of what you want to do - how many flight hours you're planning etc. That is, come up with a real plan. Which, again, is what the grownups insist upon - not a whining five year old's plea of "But it's shiny and I want it!"
ringo said:Boeing has 5 unsold C-17, will Oz take 2 more, 2 for RNZAF ?, IMHO Canada should buy all 5 but I would be happy with just 1 more aircraft.
Boeing: Five C-17As Still for Sale
MELBOURNE, Australia — Boeing said it still had five C-17A Globemaster transports for sale following confirmation that the Royal Australian Air Force would take another two.
Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced April 10 the purchase of the two strategic airlifters at RAAF Base Amberley, southwest of Brisbane. The two aircraft will bring the total number of C-17s in Australian ownership to eight.
Kirkhill said:The Aussies and the Brits manage it and while there is some partisan sniping round the edges there seems to be a general agreement on the centre of mass.
That results in the uniformed personnel having more confidence in long term planning and more confidence that they will likely be employed in manners in keeping with their capabilities.
Kirkhill said:As for pilots - add in "retired" Reserve pilots to the mix with an allotment of annual hours to those that bradley247 is suggesting.
Kirkhill said:I do want to take issue with the constant rejoinder I sense when anything other than "the plan" is proposed of "where are you going to find the money and what are you going to give up". To be honest I am starting to resent it as I find it an excuse to dodge free and open debate about capabilities and requirements and how business might be done.
Kirkhill said:To be clear, the RCAF and the RCN operate every day. Most of the Army, apparently, doesn't.
Kirkhill said:I also want to note that, prior to 2007 and the engagement in Afghanistan, this site was a lot more open and engaged than it has been since then.
Kirkhill said:With that I would spend my money where it benefits me most immediately and directly. As a government looking out at its inventory of tools I would be asking which tools to I use every day and which have the least utility. Based on those criteria I suggest these would be my priority funding requirements.
Kirkhill said:To be quite honest I find Twin Otters and Globemasters, and even CF188s and 35s more utilitarian than tanks and artillery. Likewise for the navy's ships and submarines. Tanks and artillery were awfully quiet from 1952 to 2006.
Kirkhill said:I would redefine the Canadian Army (Regular Force) as an air transportable force of marine light infantry equipped with such support gear as could be lifted by medium (5 tonne) helicopters.
Kirkhill said:The Medium/Heavy Force I would lump together with the Reserves and the CADTC. The primary role of the CADTC would be to train the Reserves as a uniformed disciplined force
Kirkhill said:equipped with small arms, cell phones, pick up trucks and transportation gear like Bv206s, RHIBs and Mexeflottes/Pontoons that could be called out on short notice for domestic response when their local community was at risk and daily life was interrupted. They would also train to work with the light forces of the Regular Force in those types of situations.
Kirkhill said:The third role of the Reserves would be to man the machines of the heavy force in conjunction with the strong cadre of Regular Force personnel available to supply small detachments of Heavy Equipment to support the deployed Light Forces. The Reserves would supply the mass of personnel available for long term commitments. And for mass mobilization.
Loachman said:Green Grass Syndrome. I seriously doubt that either of them - or most others - would see their governments as any better than ours, or have any more confidence in them. The British Armed Forces are certainly suffering from ever-reducing capabilities with no fewer expectations placed upon them.
Loachman said:From where do these Reserve Pilots come, and where do they live and work? Trenton is a long commute from where most Reserve-eligible Pilots live. That was a major factor in the decline in the number of Reserve Pilots at 400 Squadron when we moved from Downsview to Borden, and it affected the techs and other support pers as well. 438 Squadron went through the other two transformations that occurred simultaneously (loss of Kiowa and infliction of Griffon and a restructure from a Wing with an HQ, two flying and one support Squadrons) but did not move from St-Hubert. The distance between Toronto and Borden is a lot less than the distance between Toronto and Trenton, or Montreal and Trenton. I presume that you have simply forgotten to factor Reservists into the tech and other support function requirements, but the same principles apply: Reserve units without sufficient suitable populations are doomed to failure.
Loachman said:Resent away. It is annoying to all, but, unfortunately, it is reality.
Loachman said:A large number of the PYs that were reassigned to 450 Squadron came out of other parts of 1 Wing, and another large number came from the Army and elsewhere. Until a government decides to expand the CF, and is willing to put the required resources into that expansion, we are stuck with the numbers and budgets that we have.
Loachman said:More of that Green Grass.
I view the R**F as the most dysfunctional of the lot. Others' perspectives may differ widely.
In truth, I suspect that if such dysfunctionality was an olympic event, the three levels of the podium would all be the same.
Loachman said:Morale was generally higher then, and people more enthusiastic. Real things were happening, new kit was appearing, money was available, and there was purpose. Then DODII happened, just like DODI after the Cold War evaporated. We're back to no-after-market kit regardless of empty shelves at Base Supply and toque police again.
Loachman said:If I did that, I'd have no fire extinguishers or smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in my house, and I could save a bundle on insurance premia.
Loachman said:The CF does not exist to provide a stable function from day-to-day. It exists to deter and/or handle major violent outbursts, with a secondary role of dealing with unintentional disasters. Failure to man, equip, and train for those is about as complete a failure as one can imagine.
Loachman said:You never went to Germany, then.
Loachman said:That was the focus of our military efforts for over four decades.
Loachman said:See "deter and/or handle major violent outbursts" again.
Loachman said:And we had three Squadrons of CF18s there during the last few years of that, and twelve Squadrons of Sabres/CF100s/CF104s before that.
Loachman said:Of what utility is "marine light infantry", air transportable or not (any light infantry would be air transportable)? Massive beach assaults are rather passe these days. What would distinguish "marine light infantry" from any other variety of light infantry"?
Loachman said:CA Doctrine and Training Centre. Why? That is more the role for Combat Training Centre. And to what degree would whatever organization carry this out?
Loachman said:Cellphones are hardly a suitable means of mass tactical communication. One-to-one, yes, maybe, but trying to run a large and dispersed group dealing with an adverse situation? And what if the cellphone infrastructure has been inundated or damaged by whatever triggered the response?
Loachman said:This is the role of the Provinces and Territories anyway. Combat-equipped and combat-trained forces, Regular and Reserve, can always augment Provincial capabilities, but will rightfully remain a last resort. Organizations structured, equipped, and trained for domestic relief can do nothing else. Military forces exist for worst-case situations.
Loachman said:The ability to do that requires much more of an investment from government and Reservists than either are willing or able to commit. You could do this with a small number of people - this works reasonably well for the Air Militia - but "mass", "long term", "commitment", and technically-complex equipment or roles are incompatible with the concept of part-time service, and it costs more than one might think.
captloadie said:And where would we get the crews to fly the aircraft? And the space to put them? And the funding to keep them going?
Last vestige of Boeing workforce signs off on final C-17 made in Long Beach
By Karen Robes Meeks, Long Beach Press Telegram
Posted: 11/28/15, 3:13 PM PST | Updated: 10 hrs ago
In September 2013, Boeing officials announced that the company did not have enough foreign orders to justify keeping the plant open. The announcement came a week after Boeing delivered its 223rd — and final — C-17 to the U.S. Air Force.
The closure affects 2,200 workers in Long Beach, many of whom have retired or transferred to other jobs within Boeing.
At the time of the closure announcement, 13 C-17s had no committed orders. Today, all but one of the C-17s have been sold to foreign customers. Four of the five aircraft that have yet to be delivered are intended for Qatar, said Nan Bouchard, vice president and C-17 program manager.