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Royal Canadian Air Force headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general

Kirkhill

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I suggest, that we as Canadians, stick our heads above the parapet and take a look around.  The world is getting to be a very messy place and by this time next year is at risk of being a very different place.

One reason that PM May is holding off on Brexit, I believe, one reason among many, is to see the outcome of the US elections.  She has until the end of March 2017 to "unilaterally" withdraw from the EU by triggering Article 50.

The old sureties from WW2 are no longer as firm as they were and China, Russia and the US are once more playing on a more level playing field.  Unfortunately it is at a diminished level on which even more players can play  New alliances are likely to be necessary - and new obligations.  I believe it is one of those rare periods of history when the world will force itself on Canada.
 
J

jollyjacktar

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Is LGen (Ret'd) good enough military experience? He commanded the army, so he probably has some concept of PSO, conventional, or asymmetric operations. Also, he was the COS for Sector south in Yugo and a DCO in Croatia and served in A-Stan....

In fact, he is likely a far better source of knowledge and is likely conducting a lot of the behind the scenes advising on these matters with the new government. Minister Sajjan's experience is good, but he wouldn't have been exposed to nearly as much on the strategic side of the military due to his tactical level position.

He's one man, amongst not too many men and women in the present HoC that have military experience in ratio to the whole.  The point I was making if you would like to review it, was that the numbers of MP's with said experience is a pittance when set against what there was in the past.  I am sure this select group will have a variance between the skill sets/exposure they gained as well, as do us all.
 

Edward Campbell

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Colin P said:
This is the third government I have worked for, I am not seeing anything different than the previous Liberal one from the inside, other than Chreatian keeping his shirt on. The Liberal Party has not changed much, despite a few shining stars in Cabinet.


Lemme see, now: John Diefenbaker and Lester Pearson alternated being PM when I first joined; then I served while Pierre Trudeau and (briefly) Joe Clark were in power (those were the real "decadesof darkness;" then it was John Turner, Brian Mulroney and Kim Campbell ~ yes, Turner and Campbell actually were PMs; then it was Jean Chrétien and what I would call a "decade of dimness" (I retired while JC was PM); Paul Martin and Stephen Harper followed and both wanted to do something but the "military machine" was, especially in its "brain" and "central nervous system" too old, and creaky and rusted out and seized up; now we have Justin Trudeau. So I served under eight PMs (four PC and 4 Liberal) and I've watched three more (one CPC and two Liberals) (total of 11 prime minister) and I think I can say, honestly, that each did pretty much what Canadians wanted, tempered, in most cases, by what more powerful allied political leaders demanded, too. I don't think governments, per se, are pro or anti-military ~ some leaders PET and JC, were, but their desires are tempered by their cabinet, the PM is "primes inter pares" which means he's still somewhat restrained by our system. Canadians don't want war ~ who does? and they don't like military adventurism and they would much, much rather see their taxes either lowered or spent on social programmes than see defence spending increased.
 

Bird_Gunner45

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jollyjacktar said:
He's one man, amongst not too many men and women in the present HoC that have military experience in ratio to the whole.  The point I was making if you would like to review it, was that the numbers of MP's with said experience is a pittance when set against what there was in the past.  I am sure this select group will have a variance between the skill sets/exposure they gained as well, as do us all.

You're right, but they were also the veterans of WWII. Less another large scale war on that magnitude, having a former commander in parliament is about as good as you're getting.
 

Brad Sallows

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>Once again, former Commander of the Canadian Army... I'd say pretty knowledgable

I referred to "more Liberals", not "one Liberal".
 

OldSolduer

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The CAF and Canadians and JT best be careful what they wish for. It may come true.


 

The Bread Guy

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A few more tea leaves to read ...

* -- Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda
 

Edward Campbell

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milnews.ca said:
A few more tea leaves to read ...

* -- Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda


The links suggests we might join these guys (and gals) ...

2014122220385357364.jpg


... who are already taking casualties.
 

Journeyman

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milnews.ca said:
I doubt the DefMin will commit on Monday.....
If I was the gambling type, I'd wager that any  announcement will be the sole purview of the Prime Minister....most likely at his September UN meeting photo op.

Interestingly, given the comment by E.R. Campbell above, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang's state visit to Canada -- the first since 2010 -- will occur during the week before the expected UN announcement.


:pop:  <---- me, on the edge of my seat.    /not so much
 

The Bread Guy

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Journeyman said:
If I was the gambling type, I'd wager that any  announcement will be the sole purview of the Prime Minister....most likely at his September UN meeting photo op.

Interestingly, given the comment by E.R. Campbell above, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang's state visit to Canada -- the first since 2010 -- will occur during the week before the expected UN announcement.


:pop:  <---- me, on the edge of my seat.    /not so much
More grist for the mill, indeed.
 

Kirkhill

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Meanwhile in the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/09/chinas-relationship-with-uk-at-risk-over-hinkley-point-delay-war/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/11/nuclear-espionage-charge-for-china-firm-with-one-third-stake-in-hinkley-point

Hinckley Point is a proposed nuclear power plant in the UK being built by a French company - EDF - with Chinese backing.  It was approved by David Cameron and George Osborne over the objections of Theresa May.  At the time she was the Home Secretary and responsible for MI5.

After she became Prime Minister EDF tried to back her into a corner by organizing a grand project launch ceremony - The French and the Chinese were already booked. 

Prime Minister May - called a halt to the project and imposed an indefinite delay on it.  The French and the Chinese were not amused.

Now back to your discussions about CANZUK agreements (Canada - Australia - New Zealand  - United Kingdom) and our Prime Minister's appreciation for the way the Chinese Government is capable of managing its citizenry.

Journeyman will need an extra bucket of popcorn - and a couple of flats of beer for this one.
 

medicineman

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Funny speaking of the Chinese in UN terms...I walked into my UMS in Haiti when on OP HALO and found about 30 Chinese dudes in there on a tour.  "What's this I ask?"  Guy looks at me with a straight face and says "They're Chinese National Police and they're here to train the HNP about riot control."  I just shook my head and walked out...when you consider that many of the militaries represented in MINUSTAH were a who's who of South American human rights violators, I shouldn't have been surprised.  Thankfully the HNP would have had a hard time redoing Tiananmen Square with taptaps.

MM
 

The Bread Guy

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Another interesting element to throw into the mix -- this from a few days ago, from African media, shared under the Fair Use provisions of the Copyright Act:
Somalia: Ethiopia And Canada to Restore Peace in the Country

Ethiopia and Canada will see increase in their exchanges in the fields of peacekeeping and security, according to Canadian Minister of Defense, Harjit Singh Sajjan.

The Minister (Friday) met and discussed with Prime Minister Hailemariam Dessalegn in Addis Ababa.

"It is a great opportunity for Canada and Ethiopia to build this relationship. We have had a long tradition of working together as militaries from Korea to many different UN missions we have conducted," the Canadian Minister told journalists following his meeting with Hailemariam.

Minister Sajjan appreciated Ethiopia's endeavors and the so far contribution in peacekeeping missions in the Horn of Africa and beyond.

"It [Ethiopia] is already showing a leadership role," he said, adding Canada values Ethiopia's contribution in trying to bring stability to Somalia and the South Sudan.

He said Canada is interested to cooperate with Ethiopian in areas of peacekeeping and security, with further interest to enhance cooperation in other fields such as trade and investment.
 

larry Strong

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Apparently in for a long time........shared under the Fair Use provisions of the Copyright Act: 

Canada's military plan for Africa will be for a 'long duration,' says Sajjan


OTTAWA -- Defense Minister Harjit Sajjan says he will soon announce a plan to send Canadian troops on a long-term mission to Africa.

Sajjan says while no decisions have been made yet on numbers, timing or location, Canada's contribution to a United Nations mission will involve more than the military and go beyond what would be considered a traditional peacekeeping role.

Sajjan made the comment in a teleconference marking the end of a five-country, fact-finding mission to Africa.


The minister visited Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda before making his final stop in the Democratic Republic of the Congo during the eight-day trip.

He was accompanied by former Supreme Court of Canada justice Louise Arbour, who is also a former UN high commissioner for human rights, and retired lieutenant-general Romeo Dallaire, who once commanded a UN peacekeeping force in Rwanda.

Defence and Global Affairs department officials have been assessing the possibility of Canada joining UN peacekeeping operations in Mali or the Central African Republic.


Cheers
Larry

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-s-military-plan-for-africa-will-be-for-a-long-duration-says-sajjan-1.3029508
 

McG

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The Globe and Mail has given its thoughts on the subject:
Globe editorial: The Liberals promised peacekeeping, but it’s not 1957 any more
The Globe and Mail
14 Aug 2016

As he makes a whirlwind trip through half a dozen African countries, Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan is speaking honestly about a term beloved of many Canadians, particularly Liberal voters: peacekeeping.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s election platform promised: “We will renew Canada’s commitment to peacekeeping operations.”

Problem: The peacekeeping that Baby Boomers grew up with, and that some Canadians still mythologize, no longer exists. As invented by Lester Pearson, it involved troops standing on an international border or ceasefire line, placed between two states that wanted to prevent incidents that might restart a war.

But traditional peacekeeping is a business that died a long time ago. There’s a great demand for it in Canadian domestic politics, but nowhere else. Mr. Sajjan acknowledged this recently, saying that the “terminology of ‘peacekeeping’ is not valid at this time.”

The word “peace” is still part of the Liberal government’s emerging policy, but it means something very different. The prevailing phrase is “peace support operations.” Those operations may include combat. And “peace support” does not necessarily imply that there is an existing state of peace in the country or region in question.

Indeed, one of the “peace supports” in this evolving doctrine will be “more forceful military action required to establish peaceful conditions,” as some of its advocates put it. Call it peace imposition. Call it war.

The ironic upshot may well turn out to be that the Trudeau government, having campaigned in 2015 on what sounded like traditional Pearsonian peacekeeping, will end up having a more muscular foreign policy than anything the ostensibly hardline Harper government ever aspired to.

Some of the African countries Canada is considering sending “peacekeepers” to are dangerous places. It is telling that the Canadian Forces’ experience with so-called “peace operations” in Afghanistan is seen as helpful. Our troops in Afghanistan were not peacekeeping. They fought a war, and one more deadly than any Canadians had faced since the Korean War.

The Liberal spin-doctors want something they can brand “peacekeeping.” The government should be very careful about using and misusing that label, lest it end up deceiving the public, and itself.
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/the-liberals-promised-peacekeeping-but-its-not-1957-any-more/article31393784/

If it was the minister's intent to shift the vernacular of the public conversation, then it would seem he is meeting his goals.  This is good.  "Peace support" has been the language of Canadian military doctrine for at least 20 years now.  If the Canadian media and public bring themselves to start speaking on the topic in the same language that the military is speaking, then they are that much closer to sharing our understanding of the topic.

 

MARS

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The Comments Sections are best avoided, but occasionally you come across a little gem:

Canada and Lester B Pearson did not 'invent' peacekeeping. That is a Canadian Liberal myth that the media is pleased to propagate. In a Ruxted Group report http://ruxted.ca/archives/12-Peace-Making,-not-Peacekeeping-is-the-order-of-the-day.html provides the real history - Peacekeeping was invented in 1948 by Ralph Bunche (US) and Brain Urguhart (UK). Peacekeeping (blue berets and binoculars), has been replaced with Peace Support operations (body armour and bullets).

Go Ruxted!!
 

MarkOttawa

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And the UNEF peacekeeping force for Sinai in 1956 was not just a brilliant idea of Mike Pearson's--see second para here (with some personal background):

Canadian Suez Policy was not About the Middle East
http://www.cdfai.org.previewmysite.com/the3dsblog/?p=105

Mark Collins
 
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