Royal Canadian Air Force headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general

[Jarnhamar]

Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general

Staff edit: IAW Site Policy.

 

[MilEME09]

As cynical as it is, given the security situation in both possible locations for this "peacekeeping" operation, I wonder how the government will spin it when the first body comes back. Dozens of peacekeepers have been killed in the past few years. It's a fight against Islamic terrorist groups, this isn't peace keeping, its peace making.

 

[dimsum]

As cynical as it is, given the security situation in both possible locations for this "peacekeeping" operation, I wonder how the government will spin it when the first body comes back. Dozens of peacekeepers have been killed in the past few years. It's a fight against Islamic terrorist groups, this isn't peace keeping, its peace making.

Hopefully they won't sweep it under the rug, or relegate it to some back page in the news.  That being said, I think social media will aid in avoiding both.

 

[Altair]

As cynical as it is, given the security situation in both possible locations for this "peacekeeping" operation, I wonder how the government will spin it when the first body comes back. Dozens of peacekeepers have been killed in the past few years. It's a fight against Islamic terrorist groups, this isn't peace keeping, its peace making.

Hopefully they don't ban media from the repatriation ceremony.

On another note, who thought it would be the peacenik liberals sending the army into combat? I didn't support them for that but it's been a great bonus.

 

[dimsum]

Hopefully they don't ban media from the repatriation ceremony.

On another note, who thought it would be the peacenik liberals sending the army into combat? I didn't support them for that but it's been a great bonus.

Who said anything about combat?  No one has seen the ROE for this mission, and I'm willing to eat my hat if the ROE becomes the same as OP ATHENA in Afghanistan.  Peacekeeping and combat are two totally different things.

 

[Altair]

Who said anything about combat?  No one has seen the ROE for this mission, and I'm willing to eat my hat if the ROE becomes the same as OP ATHENA in Afghanistan.  Peacekeeping and combat are two totally different things.

Fair enough. I'm just going off the fact that Canada has been talking to France about how we would fit into one of their deployments in the region, and the french are not doing UN peacekeeping as much as they are peace making.

 

[Good2Golf]

Canadian "peacekeepers" will live and die by the ROE. 

Let's hope they don't get sold out by the Government thinking that Kumbaya-like ROE will help shine "Sunny Ways" onto more parts of this planet.  :-\

G2G

 

[Jarnhamar]

Do you think they got any advice from Romeo Dallaire on that idea?

None at all.

Hopefully they don't ban media from the repatriation ceremony.

I disagree. I really hope they do ban media from the repatriation ceremony (or continue to do so).  Those ceremonies are for the honoured dead and their families in uniform and out. Not cameras turning it into a social media spectacle or political ammunition for our shitty politicians to fling poo at each other.

Who said anything about combat? 

Exactly. It's all in the wording and how the government portrays it. Our soldiers sailors and airmen could be in TICs every day but it's not combat, because combat is aggressive and scary and Canada is a nation of peacekeepers  ;D

 

[Edward Campbell]

What France is doing in Africa has nothing much to do with keeping or making the peace or anything else except French perceptions of French interests. France does exactly what it wants, it asks no permission and it seeks no support ... it protects French interests as it and it alone perceives them.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... I really hope they do ban media from the repatriation ceremony (or continue to do so).  Those ceremonies are for the honoured dead and their families in uniform and out. Not cameras turning it into a social media spectacle or political ammunition for our shitty politicians to fling poo at each other ...

I agree this isn't a place for politics of ANY kind, overt or implied, and there's ZERO room for harrassing families in mourning. 

That said, if the military wants coverage of the good things it does, there's a case to be made for covering what's not good.  Also, it's Canada's military, so Canadians has some right (not the journalists) to bear witness to the ultimate sacrifice our troops can make, especially on behalf of Canadians.

Here's where I was on the issue ~10 years ago:

... As for the media's "right" to be there, yer damned if you do (media get to blow it up and hype the story), and yer damned if you don't (the media talk about "censorship", and go all papparazzo on the event). 

Personally, as long as it's respectful (that's what ground rules for attendance at events are for), I'm OK with media being there.  We complain if the media doesn't cover the military, so when they do, we have to live with the nasty as well as the good ...

 

[dimsum]

I agree this isn't a place for politics of ANY kind, overt or implied, and there's ZERO room for harrassing families in mourning. 

That said, if the military wants coverage of the good things it does, there's a case to be made for covering what's not good.  Also, it's Canada's military, so Canadians has some right (not the journalists) to bear witness to the ultimate sacrifice our troops can make, especially on behalf of Canadians.

Here's where I was on the issue ~10 years ago:

Agreed.  I think that media coverage of ramp ceremonies is a good "gut check" as to why we are doing what we do.  There may be some political footballing, but it will also make the public mourn with us and hopefully remember that we are there because of the government, which is elected by them.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Great post milnews.ca.

It's a really fine line between acknowledging and showing Canada the sacrifice it's soldiers (and their families) are making while remaining respectful and non-political.

It's a bit off topic but as you say 10 years ago I remember we learned a lesson really quick about what happens when the media broadcasted when we were gathering on the KAF airfield to send fallen soldiers home; specifically the Taliban would plan rocket attacks to coincide with the ceremonies to try and kill us while we're all gathered together.

I would hate to see ceremonies today become juicy targets for protestors and anyone else who wants media attention knowing that the media with their cameras will be covering the ceremonies in full force.


Back to the Africa mission I'm not sure where the government thinks we're getting all these soldiers but I'm glad to read this story. I've never been on a UN mission and much respect to everyone who has (understanding how shitty and painful they were) but this feels meaningful to me. 
Not knowing a deployment date means plenty of time to cry about black boots and green tacvests  ;D

 

[The Bread Guy]

It's a really fine line between acknowledging and showing Canada the sacrifice it's soldiers (and their families) are making while remaining respectful and non-political.

Zackly - and that's why it can be tough to tightrope walk along.

I would hate to see ceremonies today become juicy targets for protestors and anyone else who wants media attention knowing that the media with their cameras will be covering the ceremonies in full force.

+1000

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

What France is doing in Africa has nothing much to do with keeping or making the peace or anything else except French perceptions of French interests. France does exactly what it wants, it asks no permission and it seeks no support ... it protects French interests as it and it alone perceives them.

Pretty much bang on, French military operations in the Sahel are as much about maintaining French control of their mineral interests as they are about "Terrorism".  French electricity is 90% Nuclear Power based, most of that Uranium comes from Mauritania, Mali and Niger.  It's imperative the governments of those countries remain friendly with Paris, it's an energy security issue.

Ditto French Operations in the CAR.  That particular operation was born out of a power play made by the BRICS countries, particularly South Africa with backing from China.  They made a move in to French turf, a coup was staged and in a familiar scene French Colonial Marines seized the airport to "Evacuate Foreign Nationals"  ;D

 

[PuckChaser]

Likely why no one else in NATO has rushed to deploy combat troops to help the French...

 

[dapaterson]

Quick troops to tasks: 1x Bn HQ +1x Rifle coy to Latvia. Balance of 450 commitment is engr,  sigs, int & CSS. Same Bn provides rifle company to Ukraine.  For an African mission, we have 8 more Bns to choose from.  Leaving 7 not deployed.  That suggests a 2 year cycle.
And we still have 3x Armd units to build standby high readiness groups.

Challenging, but doable.

EDIT: fix typo in # of Armd units (fat fingers on phone syndrome)

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Likely why no one else in NATO has rushed to deploy combat troops to help the French...

The French don't need the help.  They've got enough forward deployed forces and pre-staged equipment to take on anyone in that region.  The help we provided in terms of airlift during SERVAL merely sped up the operation, the outcome would have remained the same.

France has an Airborne BG on 72 hrs NTM at all times.  A Reinforcing Bde is on 9 days NTM.  The 50 A400Ms the French Air Force has bought which are just starting to come online should reduce their need for strategic airlift.

The French even have some nice graphics illustrating the airlift capabilities of A400

When the French did SERVAL they flew soldiers in to Ivory Coast and TChad where the equipment was already staged, additional equipment was brought in to Abidjan by Mistrals from Toulon.  Troops drove a couple of thousand Kim's to Mali from both locations, this is why the French love wheeled vehicles so much.

 

[medicineman]

I honestly don't think PET Jr has learned much from his party predecessors from our experience in the 90's...the only way this is going to work is if the ROE are appropriate for the environment.  If they're anything like the thing I still have from Croatia that fan folds out to something that would have got me killed if I followed it to the T, we'll be burying a number of folks I'm afraid.  Many of you might remember those - "STOP.  STOP or I'll say STOP again.  If you don't STOP, I'll have to think about chambering a round after I've told you to STOP yet again...etc ad nauseum".

MM

 

[Kirkhill]

The French don't need the help.  They've got enough forward deployed forces and pre-staged equipment to take on anyone in that region.  The help we provided in terms of airlift during SERVAL merely sped up the operation, the outcome would have remained the same.

France has an Airborne BG on 72 hrs NTM at all times.  A Reinforcing Bde is on 9 days NTM.  The 50 A400Ms the French Air Force has bought which are just starting to come online should reduce their need for strategic airlift.

The French even have some nice graphics illustrating the airlift capabilities of A400

When the French did SERVAL they flew soldiers in to Ivory Coast and TChad where the equipment was already staged, additional equipment was brought in to Abidjan by Mistrals from Toulon.  Troops drove a couple of thousand Kim's to Mali from both locations, this is why the French love wheeled vehicles so much.

Excellent - The French can reinforce St-Pierre and Miquelon with an Airborne Battle Group in 72 hours and a Brigade Group (with 30 tonne vehicles) in 9 days.  At which point the Mistrales can start showing up with the rest of the Division...... Not that they ever would mind you.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Therefore Mali?  French ending non-US mission in CAR, have very few personnel with UN’s MINUSCA–so shouldn’t need Canadian Forces help there:

“France to end military operations in CAR in October”
http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-france-military-operation-car-central-african-republic-sangaris-end/

MINUSCA:
http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/missions/minusca/facts.shtml

French contribution (scroll down):
http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/contributors/2016/apr16_3.pdf

Mark
Ottawa