ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]

[Andraste]

Hello,

Regarding your question, both programs MOTP and ROTP are officer production programs for those joining the military.  One produces a medical officer and the other produces an officer in another MOSID.  You can certainly avail yourself of ROTP in another officer MOSID however, you cannot join as a medical officer, do ROTP to gain your undergrad then transfer to MOTP.  So you have a couple of options:

1. Complete your undergrad on your own and apply to the CAF under MOTP.  Note you have to be accepted to an accredited medical school for this option and meet all the eligibility criteria for enrollment as an officer in the CAF.

2. Enroll in the CAF under ROTP in another officer MOSID and complete your degree at an accredited university (e.g., RMC) and all your training for your MOSID of choice.  After you have completed any obligatory service requirements for your undergrad then you can apply for the annual in-service medical officer production plan.  However this is a very competitive process and is open only to current serving members of the CAF and you must be accepted to an accredited medical school.  This option will mean a wait time of approximately 3 years after you are fully trained in your original officer MOSID.

With regards to the Reserve option.  You can apply under RESO to but you have to pay for your undergrad yourself (you can recoup some of the cost under ILP).  Again this will be in another officer MOSID and you would have to transfer to the Regular Force in that officer MOSID then apply as per option 2 above to the in-service medical plan.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Andraste

 

[jrblish]

Thank you for your quick response.

Just to clarify, if I go the RESO route and pay for the undergrad myself, will I have any additional wait time before I can apply for the in-service medical officer production plan? I am assuming I would still have to complete the training for the MOSID that I selected first. Furthermore, would I have to repeat the BMOQ if I already completed them in the first program or is this a completely different plan from the MOTP?

Merci,

Jaedin

 

[jrblish]

I spoke to a recruiter today and had the remainder of my questions answered. I think I will go with option 1 to have a better chance of being accepted for the payment plan as my main goal is to become a medical officer. However, I am still planning on joining the Health Services Reserve part-time while I complete my undergraduate degree to have some experience in both the medical and military fields.

Thank you for your assistance,

Jaedin

 

[OrganishChemiker]

Hi,

I searched the forums and could not find anything directly relevant and this is about the closest I can find.  Sorry if I've hijacked the thread.  I have applied for a few positions, including Signals Officer (direct entry), Pharmacy Officer (ROTP) and Medical Officer.  I don't have a pharmacy or medical degree and going to school again would be a big decision.  I love the idea of Signals Officer and am very good with computers, electronics and understand the basics of cryptography so it appeals the most to me.  I currently have a chemistry degree (BSc hons and a BA).  I see the RMC in Kingston offers an Ammunition Officer Certificate but I cannot find any job description for that.  I'd love to get the Ammunition Officer Certificate.  Does anyone have any insight into what someone with an Ammunition Officer Certificate might do with it while in the CAF?

 

[DAA]

I searched the forums and could not find anything directly relevant and this is about the closest I can find.  Sorry if I've hijacked the thread.  I have applied for a few positions, including Signals Officer (direct entry), Pharmacy Officer (ROTP) and Medical Officer.  I don't have a pharmacy or medical degree and going to school again would be a big decision.  I love the idea of Signals Officer and am very good with computers, electronics and understand the basics of cryptography so it appeals the most to me.  I currently have a chemistry degree (BSc hons and a BA).  I see the RMC in Kingston offers an Ammunition Officer Certificate but I cannot find any job description for that.  I'd love to get the Ammunition Officer Certificate.  Does anyone have any insight into what someone with an Ammunition Officer Certificate might do with it while in the CAF?

The Ammunition Technical Officer Specialty Qualification is a year long course, if not longer and I believe is available to qualified Logistics (Log O), Naval Combat System Engineer (NCS Eng), MARS, EME, AERE and Engr Officers.

This link is from 2010 but should give you the basic information on what an ATO would be responsible for.

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2013/dn-nd/D3-27-2010-eng.pdf

 

[OrganishChemiker]

Preamble: "tl;dr" (too long didn't read). I have a tendency to go on and on . . . Feel free to skip to my questions.  They're ordered from most to least important on the page. 

Thank you for your help.  I appreciate it.

It looks like Ammunition Officer Certificate is aimed mostly at people involved in ordinance disposal if I understand correctly. 

By the way, I found a link to one of the videos listed in that PDF (Two Buddies and a Bomb, I believe).  It was okay.  Two teenagers almost blew their hands off with a home-made pipe bomb.  They noticed gunpowder leaking out of one end of the pipe bomb.  So what do they do?  They hit the end of the pipe bomb with a rock to close it!  Of course, hitting metal with a rock is probably what caused the spark that set the pipe bomb off.  How stupid!  They are so lucky that only their hands sustained major damage and a plastic surgeon was able to fix their hands.

If accepted to the CAF, it looks like maybe my best option would be to apply as an "Interest Only" student and take the chemistry courses part time.  Getting the Ammunition Officer Certificate isn't necessarily my goal and it seems like it may not make much sense if I became a Signals Officer, in terms of advancing my career.
. 
Part of why I got interested in chemistry is because I found explosives interesting, so these courses really appeal to me.  I'm just interested in these courses because I love chemistry and explosives are one of the things I find fascinating.

The courses listed under Ammunition Officer Certificate look very interesting.  I would love to go and even just sit in on some of these courses but my guess is that I wouldn't be allowed.

<a href="http://www.rmcc-cmrc.ca/en/registrars-office/undergraduate-chemistry-chemical-engineering-programmes#aoc">Ammunition Officer Certificate course requirements</a>

<a href="http://www.rmcc-cmrc.ca/en/registrars-office/undergraduate-chemistry-chemical-engineering-courses#cceccf371">Course descriptions starting with CCE371</a>

I am interested in specialty training for Signals Officers.  I know that the NCMs are the ones who have the technical skills and know much more than the officer about the specific technical issues.  I think it is important for an officer to have a good idea of what the people you are working with do and their specific skills.

This leaves me with a few questions:

1) Do you have or know where I could find any information about the specialty training available to Signals Officers?
I searched and found a list of specialties:
<a href="https://army.ca/forums/threads/103901/post-1101000.html#msg1101000">Specialty Specifications</a>

I cannot find any information on what is involved in getting these specifications.  Can you point me to any resources?

2) Could you give me an idea of the NCMs that would usually work with a Signals Officer? 
I'm curious about who might work with a junior Signals Officer (e.g. 2LT, LT and Captain) in a small unit (platoon?).  Some of the jobs seem obvious: I'd guess an Army Communication and Information Systems Specialists.would work in signals, but do you know what NCMs would typically make up a signals platoon? 
I want to review the NCM jobs and options for specialty training because I think it is important for an officer to have a thorough understanding of what his NCMs need to do and the skills they have.

2a) If you could clarify a bit about structure and terminology relevant to signals, that would be helpful but is not essential.

3) When I search Google for "Ammunition Officer" and "Canadian Armed Forces" the only relevant pages seem to be the RMC page where I found out about the Ammunition Officer Certificate (the first link above).  I can't find any job titled "Ammunition Officer."  If I understand you correctly, the Ammunition Technical Officer is a kind of specialty designation, available to CAF members with specific jobs like Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Officers?

 

[Ludoc]

Disclosure: I am a Signals NCM, not a Sig O. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.

1) Do you have or know where I could find any information about the specialty training available to Signals Officers?
I searched and found a list of specialties:
<a href="https://army.ca/forums/threads/103901/post-1101000.html#msg1101000">Specialty Specifications</a>

I cannot find any information on what is involved in getting these specifications.  Can you point me to any resources?

Generally you get these specialties if you need them. If you are assigned the job of unit Crypto Custodian you get your crypto course. If you are posted to 21EW you get trained in electronic warfare. If you are required to move armoured vehicles you recieve your AVAMs. There are too many specialties to train everyone in everything. Additionally, there are just not enough spots on courses to train pers in specializations they may never use.

2) Could you give me an idea of the NCMs that would usually work with a Signals Officer? 
I'm curious about who might work with a junior Signals Officer (e.g. 2LT, LT and Captain) in a small unit (platoon?).  Some of the jobs seem obvious: I'd guess an Army Communication and Information Systems Specialists.would work in signals, but do you know what NCMs would typically make up a signals platoon?

2a) If you could clarify a bit about structure and terminology relevant to signals, that would be helpful but is not essential.

There are a number of places you can be posted. These places have different career paths. I can only talk about how the Brigades work. As a new Sig O you stand about a 50% of being posted to a Brigade. Once there, you will become the head of a Signals Troop (what we call platoons) at the Brigade HQ responsible for between 25-60 pers.

After that you will move on to be the Sig O of an out unit (Infantry/Armoured/Engineer/Service Battalion/etc.). There you will be the unit's advisor on Signal matters while being in charge of 15-30 Signals personel and sometimes a couple non-Sigs.

That is pretty general, and every unit is different, while constantly evolving. So things will look very different depending on where you go how long it takes for you to get in and become trained.

 

[OrganishChemiker]

That's the information I was looking for and I'll keep in mind that the makeup of units is not static.  Very interesting and exciting. Needless to say, it sounds very demanding.  Thanks!

 

[OrganishChemiker]

My apologies for the double post but I logged out and realized that I had a follow-up question:

Once assigned to a unit, would it be typical for a Sig O to stay there for the duration of their term of service?  Or would a Sig O be transfered if they were needed elsewhere?

 

[Ludoc]

No, Sig Os are transferred frequently, exposing them to a wide range job responsibilities and command styles.

The Army places a lot of value on people having a wide knowledge base. That way, if a Sig O becomes a unit commander they will have experienced most of the jobs below them and seen how other units organize/function.

 

[Jester_TG]

Hello,

I just finished the Ammunition Technical Officer course a couple weeks ago.

So, what you found on the RMCC website is the courses we take on MOD 1 of the course. It starts with a semester at RMCC where we take the courses you found.  We break for X-Mas leave then show up for MOD 2 at CFB Borden for 6.5 months learning the practical side of ammunition and ammunition management in the CAF (includes conventional munitions disposal - basic qualification).

I do not believe you will be able to do that certificate without being on the ATO Course.

That said, a few trades have left the ATO Course. The current feeder trades are: Logistics Officer (all 3 elements), Naval Combat Systems Engineer, Engineering Officer (Cmbt Eng O), and  Aerospace Engineer (AERE). RCEME has just left this year in favour of the advanced ammo engineering masters program at RMCC. Since most of them go off to work at DAEME anyways.

This all said....if you want to be a Sig O.....you will not be an ATO.

Let me know if you have anymore specific questions.

Mike

 

[Aaron97]

Hello,

I am currently in the Primary Reserves right now as an NCM (Pte) and am starting my first year of post-secondary this fall. My plan is to apply for the ROTP program at a local university hopefully by my second or third year of studies. In terms of wanting to do so, should I ask my chain of command OR would I be aloud to go to a recruiting office to ask (even though I am already a CF member). The reason I didn't go for ROTP right out of high school is my grades were okay, but definitely not at the competitive level which I will be striving for now. In addition, I wanted to finish being in the cadet program and have a light taste of the CF before I sign any lengthy contract  (Reg Force)

The reason I am hesitant to go to my chain about discussing ROTP (before speaking to a Recruiting centre) is I had just sworn in in January and therefore am just a Private. The reason I would like to do ROTP is though I enjoy being part of the reserves, in the end, it is a part-time job in terms of income (unless on Class B or C) and there are a few Officer careers that I am very interested in pursuing in the long run.

The current Plan I have right now is:
Fall Semester:
3 relevant courses and BMQ

Spring Semester
3 relevant courses and BMQ and BMQ-L

Summer 2017
DP 1

Fall 2017
4-5 courses

Hopefully apply by the end of Fall 2017 or the beginning of Spring 2018.

In anybody's opinion, did I ruin my shot at ROTP by already enlisting into the CF reserves or not applying for ROTP right out of highschool?

 

[PuckChaser]

In anybody's opinion, did I ruin my shot at ROTP by already enlisting into the CF reserves or not applying for ROTP right out of highschool?

Maybe not ruined, but you absolutely wasted your Reserve unit's time.

You will also not have DP3 in Summer 2017, that's your Sgt's course. You will maybe have DP1.

 

[runormal]

Maybe not ruined, but you absolutely wasted your Reserve unit's time.

I mean it isn't a guarantee that the member will even get in to ROTP. When I joined, both units that I seriously inquired with didn't have a problem with me when I said "I'm really interested, but I'd also looking to re-apply to ROTP." Plus the members personal situation could change, and they may no longer take the ROTP offer even if they get it.

As a recruiter I'd be more pissed if someone VR'ed during basic or any follow up course. Or the people who manage to be in for 3 years but never had the time for DP 1 and eventually release.

Re: Aaron not sure why you would schedule your semester like that, no guarantee you will even get on your respective courses. Plus if you cant balance 1/2 weekends a month for basic , you'll be screwed when your qualified because you'll be "expected" to work that much once your qualified. I'd take 5 courses and drop one if you have a problem/bomb a midterm. That way you can remain a full time student (which is to your advantage). From a price 3 courses part time is typically comparable to being full a time student.

Furthermore I'd apply to ROTP this year. All your doing is taking courses that may not transfer to RMC which from a practical perspective you are wasting time / money.

As for whether you ruined your chances, that's a whenever you apply question. There are more spots for off the street candidates but there are also more applicants.

 

[mcglone63]

Hi everyone,

I apologize if this has been covered already, but I've searched and dug through every thread I could and couldn't find a solid answer to my question.

I just recently had my enrolment ceremony, and will be having my final two years at UBC subsidized. My occupation is Armour Officer (and, as I understand it, all Combat Arms occupations are pretty much open for any type of Bachelor Degree as far as requirements go), but I received my offer in the middle of August. The program I listed on my application (and what I was accepted for at UBC) is now completely full. Prior to receiving my offer, I was planning on attending UBC on a part-time basis because it was all I could afford while working full-time.

Basically, I have two questions. First, will there be any issue with me changing my major in order to complete my BA on time? Second, if I were to require an additional semester (or year) in order to complete my degree (now that many of my courses are full), would that work? I would obviously need to add on more obligatory service, and I assume I would have to pay for the additional period at school myself; what is the protocol for this type of situation?

Again, sorry if these questions have been asked and hashed over many times, I just haven't been able to locate information relevant to this specific situation. I also have not yet been contacted by, or been given the contact info for my ULO (which seems strange to me).

Thanks!

 

[clownfool]

mcglone,

I am the BCIT student that swore in with you last Wednesday. You should have been given a form when you left the CFRC titled "PROTECTED A" at the top. look at the bottom of the page, at row 6.B. There should be a phone number with the name of the ULO.

Hope this helps.

 

[mcglone63]

mcglone,

I am the BCIT student that swore in with you last Wednesday. You should have been given a form when you left the CFRC titled "PROTECTED A" at the top. look at the bottom of the page, at row 6.B. There should be a phone number with the name of the ULO.

Hope this helps.

Awesome! I was wondering if you were on here. I never got that form, I'll just have to head back in there on Monday and get it I suppose. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[ballz]

Hi everyone,

I apologize if this has been covered already, but I've searched and dug through every thread I could and couldn't find a solid answer to my question.

I just recently had my enrolment ceremony, and will be having my final two years at UBC subsidized. My occupation is Armour Officer (and, as I understand it, all Combat Arms occupations are pretty much open for any type of Bachelor Degree as far as requirements go), but I received my offer in the middle of August. The program I listed on my application (and what I was accepted for at UBC) is now completely full. Prior to receiving my offer, I was planning on attending UBC on a part-time basis because it was all I could afford while working full-time.

Basically, I have two questions. First, will there be any issue with me changing my major in order to complete my BA on time? Second, if I were to require an additional semester (or year) in order to complete my degree (now that many of my courses are full), would that work? I would obviously need to add on more obligatory service, and I assume I would have to pay for the additional period at school myself; what is the protocol for this type of situation?

Again, sorry if these questions have been asked and hashed over many times, I just haven't been able to locate information relevant to this specific situation. I also have not yet been contacted by, or been given the contact info for my ULO (which seems strange to me).

Thanks!

Once you get in contact with your ULO, ask for the contact info for your Subsidized Education Manager (SEM) who works out of Borden. Your ULO is there to manage your day-to-day administrative needs (leave passes, going on course in the summer, claims for school, etc) but they do not have anything to do with what you are about to go through.

The short answer is I don't think there will be any problem with you switching a programs (as long as it's still suitable for your trade Armoured Officer), and probably not a whole ton of administration for that either.

However, for extending your period of schooling, there will be a myriad of factors considered. You said you are only signed up to do 2 years of university under ROTP correct? That *should* make this doable, as it leaves you some wiggle room (you can have up to 4x years paid for), and you probably won't have to pay for the extra year of school yourself, you will just have to agree to extra obligatory service.

You're going to need to start getting your ducks in a row. Your SEM is going to need to see documentation of why you can't complete the program in the 2 years as planned, and he's going to need to see a plan (line by line, course by course, semester by semester) of how you intend to complete the new program in 2.5 years or 3 years. He's also going to want to see options for summer sessions, because they would most likely prefer that you do a semester in the summer instead of doing military training, and just delay your military training.

*should* as in... "will probably make this doable," not "it will most definitely be a piece of cake."

 

[mcglone63]

Once you get in contact with your ULO, ask for the contact info for your Subsidized Education Manager (SEM) who works out of Borden. Your ULO is there to manage your day-to-day administrative needs (leave passes, going on course in the summer, claims for school, etc) but they do not have anything to do with what you are about to go through.

The short answer is I don't think there will be any problem with you switching a programs (as long as it's still suitable for your trade Armoured Officer), and probably not a whole ton of administration for that either.

However, for extending your period of schooling, there will be a myriad of factors considered. You said you are only signed up to do 2 years of university under ROTP correct? That *should* make this doable, as it leaves you some wiggle room (you can have up to 4x years paid for), and you probably won't have to pay for the extra year of school yourself, you will just have to agree to extra obligatory service.

You're going to need to start getting your ducks in a row. Your SEM is going to need to see documentation of why you can't complete the program in the 2 years as planned, and he's going to need to see a plan (line by line, course by course, semester by semester) of how you intend to complete the new program in 2.5 years or 3 years. He's also going to want to see options for summer sessions, because they would most likely prefer that you do a semester in the summer instead of doing military training, and just delay your military training.

*should* as in... "will probably make this doable," not "it will most definitely be a piece of cake."

This is very helpful information! Thanks a ton! Good to hear the change of major "shouldn't" be a huge deal, as the recruiter I spoke to on enrolment day seemed to think it would cause all kinds of problems.

With this new program, I don't foresee having any issues finishing in the 2 years that I've already been approved for, I would only need extra time if they required me to stay in my original program because all of the courses have already filled up... or if some of my transfer credits from my other post-secondary institution didn't go through for some reason.

Once I get in touch with my ULO, I will definitely contact my SEM and get all of this started as soon as I can. Past couple weeks have been pretty crazy getting flights / courses / enrolment in order but I'm looking forward to getting the semester started.

 

[DAA]

I am currently in the Primary Reserves right now as an NCM (Pte) and am starting my first year of post-secondary this fall. My plan is to apply for the ROTP program at a local university hopefully by my second or third year of studies. In terms of wanting to do so, should I ask my chain of command OR would I be aloud to go to a recruiting office to ask (even though I am already a CF member). The reason I didn't go for ROTP right out of high school is my grades were okay, but definitely not at the competitive level which I will be striving for now. In addition, I wanted to finish being in the cadet program and have a light taste of the CF before I sign any lengthy contract  (Reg Force)

The reason I am hesitant to go to my chain about discussing ROTP (before speaking to a Recruiting centre) is I had just sworn in in January and therefore am just a Private. The reason I would like to do ROTP is though I enjoy being part of the reserves, in the end, it is a part-time job in terms of income (unless on Class B or C) and there are a few Officer careers that I am very interested in pursuing in the long run.

In anybody's opinion, did I ruin my shot at ROTP by already enlisting into the CF reserves or not applying for ROTP right out of highschool?

As an "active" serving NCM member of the PRes and if you wish to apply for ROTP, it is now considered to be a Component Transfer (ie; Res F to Reg F).  As a result, you won't be applying through your local Recruiting Detachment but rather online through the DMCPG 5-2 CT Portal, which you can do at your own leisure and through a DWAN Computer.  Your ROTP Application will be managed by DMCPG 5-2, who will provide you with the details and requirements after you have applied.

Your local Recruiting Detachment can't help you.