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Rick's Napkin Forces Challenge

FJAG

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I've got a solution but seem to be having problems putting up either jpeg or png file (for that matter even a pdf attachment). The files are not large. Anyone else with a problem? Obviously not you, Kirkhill.

:unsure: :cautious:

Edit: Okay - now I'm flummoxed. I can paste other images, just not the ones I made today.

:mad:

Got it!!! Had an apostrophe in the file name which Windows saved but Army.ca won't accept. Post to follow.

:D
 
Last edited:

Kirkhill

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Proceeding with more pics

Hornet Prosecutions.jpg
Air coverage by CF-188 Hornets operating from FOLs without Air to Air refueling and returning to originating base. Armed with either AIM-120D or Harpoons (fitted for not with).

Civilian appreciation from open source material. Proceed at your own peril.

The purpose is to show what the RCAF currently offers in terms of capabilities and coverage

 

Kirkhill

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However, real coverage is from the CP-140

My personal appreciation, again from open source material of the strike coverage supplied by the Auroras operating from Comox, Greenwood and the Iqaluit FOL. 2500 nm out and back, returning to originating field. Range can be extended by 120 nm if considering the range of the Harpoon. Again, like the CF-188, that is a possibility that is not exploited.


Aurora Prosecutions.jpg

The CF-188 replacement is important.

The CP-140 replacement is critical.

That would be particularly true in an internal security / ISR environment.

 

KevinB

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B was the easy one - I can transplant JSOC


One a serious note - it is taking some time - as I have to rebuild/rejig etc stuff and wash it enough, so that it is detailed enough to explain the what/why where, as well as not put anything that shouldn't be public out.


I started making an eleborate powerpoint slide brief - and then decided it was easier to write.


DEFCOM - Defence Command - Joint HQ Cell for all 6 Branches (1,000 pers)

TSA - Tactical Support Aviation: Rotary Wing, Fixed WIng Ground Support, UAV (2,000 pers)
MH-60
MH-47
AH-1
AH-6
MH-6
MQ-1D UAV



CSOC: Canadian Special Operations Command: Lots of neat stuff (4,000 pers)
DATF (Direct Action Task Force)
AFO: Advance Force Operations
HIG: Human Intelligence Group
SIG: Signals Intelligence Group
ISR: Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance
JCG: Joint Communications Group
MSG: Mobility Support Group
EMG: Emergency Medical Group
ASP: Airborne Support Package

CA: Canadian Army: Conventional Army Force (5,000 pers)
More to follow in break down.

RCAF: Royal Canadian AirForce: Fixed WIng Transport, Support and Air Defence Fighters) (1,000 pers)
C-17 x6
Ck-46 x4
E-767 x3
P-8 x 9
MC-130H x30
F-35 x 120

RCN: Royal Canadian Navy (5,000 pers)
LA Class SSN x 10
AOPS x 10
Zumwalt x 5
Fast Combat Support Ship x3

RTC: Recruiting and Training Command (1,000 pers)

SPC: Support Command (2,000 pers).


I'll give a detailed breakdown on further posts.
 

FJAG

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All righty then!

The biggest issue that I have with the Woke Party is its arcane fetish with relying only on Reg F elements when you could provide soooo much more capability for sooooo much less cost with reservists as part of the force. Downsizing to 15,000 full-time positions leaves a ton of equipment sitting in storage or, heaven forbid it gets disposed of again.

My approach to this was not to take things away but to start from the bottom up to see what capability is needed and then see if it already exists and allocate it to the need. Where it doesn't exist then acquire it. That was followed by a long process of paring back capabilities to fall within the limitations. The acquisition process was greatly eased by the Woke Party's offer to buy new kit. I used that but stayed with existing kit if it was good enough. I have not gone down to the level of determining what type of rifle the number two rifleman in the third section of the fourth platoon will carry but concentrated on gross numbers in battalion size organizations only mentioning larger more significant kit.

For 15,000 folks, the CDS is a MGen and the commanders of the Army, Navy and Air Force are Brigadiers. End of discussion.

Detailed comments follow the image:

zzzzzRicks Napkin Force.png

RCN

  • remains bicoastal with a fleet commanded by a Captain on each.
  • CSC's are people hogs and have been regretfully reduced to 6 total to allow for crews for 12 x heavily armed but lightly manned corvettes to replace the MCDVs. Range is an issue but they will operate with an AOR to extend range. I kind of like the Sa'ar class for its range and weapons. I see these things operating in little TFs with a frigate, a couple of corvettes, a sub and an AOR. I'd be sorely tempted to get a second AOR on each coast if I could squeeze out a few hundred more PYs.
  • Arctic ops are a major concern, accordingly existing subs are replaced with Virginia class SSNs (seems money is no object) for both endurance and armament; 2 x AOPS are released for two new heavy and heavily armed ice breakers/AORs; the remaining 4 x AOPS get a major weapon upgrade.
  • Maritime aircraft reduced to two squadrons but helicopters remain about the same: 28 x CH148. Aurora will be replaced with 14 x P-8 Poseidon. 12 Wing remains with the RCAF but under Opcon the RCN.
RCAF
  • Squadron numbers drastically reduced but key aircraft capability maintained wherever possible.
  • CF188 to be replaced by 60 F-35. I'd get 30 more if I had the people.
  • 3 x Transport squadrons retained with existing aircraft (if they were still building C-17 I'd get some but am not ready for A400s.
  • 22 Wing surveillance capabilities upgraded with 4 x RQ-4 Global Hawks located in Winnipeg because we need the range. Strike capability enhanced with 6 x MQ-9A Reapers which will have several northern forward deployment sites selected and prepared.
  • 1 Wing remains with the RCAF but is under Opcon to the Army. 25 CH146 to be armed and to eventually be transitioned to a new attack helicopter. All other CH146 to be replaced by a new utility helicopter/vertical lift aircraft. 427 Sqn part of 1 Wing but Opcon SOF Regt.
CA
  • New ISR Regt to combine all comms, EW, cyber, military intelligence, and IA functions. I'd like this one to be bigger but ... Woke Party.
  • one airborne regiment with two airborne battalions and an artillery regiment. Note that the regiment is fully mechanized with LAV 6.0s together with 12 x Archer 155mm (because it takes 10 guys to run an M777 but only three on an Archer). Airborne artillery capability retained by way of weapon locker room 16 x 120mm mortars. Also has STA capability. Essentially the regiment has the equipment and is trained to go airborne, airmobile, light, arctic, amphibious, mountain or mech (This is your father's Swiss Army knife Airborne Regt)
  • a general support regiment to augment whatever TF is deployed with AD, drone recce/strike weapons and engineer support.
CFHQ
  • For a 15,000 pers force I did not need or want a 3,000 pers HQ so I put the SOF Regt as part of the CFHQ. In addition I allocated 1,000 BTL/ATL position to allow for force regeneration/training without impeding manning levels (I've already made them ridiculously tight). That leaves 850 PYs for all the rest of the HQ functions which as far as I'm concerned should be enough.
  • Note that JTF2 and the SOF Bn are also fully mechanized and can be employed in that role if necessary giving the CAF a three battalion capability. In fact we'll have so many spare LAVs and TLAVs to pass around that we'll be able to put almost everything in the Army and SOF under armour if needed.
General Comments
  • There are no schools. In an organization this small that's a luxury. Whatever training is done is done by way of the BTL/ATL and with a small depot platoon within each regiment with as much trg farmed out to the civilian sector as is possible.
  • Similarly much of the management such as HR and finance can also be farmed out to outfits like Ceridian supervised/managed by the Pers Mgmt Regt HQ.
  • CSS across the board is a function of the Procurement, Sustainment, Infrastructure Regt HQs and the various CSS bns/sqdns that exist within each regt/wing/fleet. As much of the static side of the system should again be farmed out to civilian agencies/corporations.
  • There is a small chart on the right that gives an approximation of what the manning levels of various units and formations are. It's lean.
  • Locations. I'm a bit torn by this but based on the domestic threat and the arctic threat I think one needs to split the CA a bit so:
    • RCN - HQ in Ottawa - maintain their Halifax and Esquimalt bases with 14 Wing split to the two main coastal bases.
    • RCAF - HQ in Ottawa - 22 Wing North Bay but 433 Sqn in Winnipeg with fwd deploy bases in Alaska, Whitehorse, Yellowknife, Churchill and in a place in Labrador TBD. 4 Wing in Cold Lake with an airfield maintained in Bagotville. 8 Wing in Trenton, 1 Wing in Kingston and Petawawa.
    • CA - HQ in Ottawa - 1 ISR Regt in Petawawa. 2 Airborne Regt (-) in Valcartier with one battlegroup sized TF in Edmonton. 3 GS Regt split between Gagetown/Shilo. 4 Log Regt centered in Montreal but with composite companies at major bases.
    • CFHQ - Ottawa. SOF Regt in Petawawa. CJOC and the CA have the responsibility for linking with national and provincial security agencies to develop military assistance response plans.
  • There's a tendency to draw inwards and concentrate when a force is this small, however, I'm holding on to every piece of real estate and infrastructure that I can while I work on convincing the Woke Party that we desperately need 20,000 reservists, a bunch of rocket launchers and a few more ships (I might give up a few of the more decrepit armouries unless they're already being used by that cockamamie civil defence force.
Advice to the Woke Party
  • You cannot do a security budget based on holistic planning because there is no income to measure expenses against. Security budgets are a form of insurance policy based on a risk analysis. This force restructure will see a very major drop in annual expenditures principally because of personnel and O&M reductions but will immediately thereafter restart the spiral of personnel and equipment and O&M cost inflation. I haven't worried about the capital budget because apparently the Woke Party doesn't care.
  • Full-time salaries are never as good as part-time salaries especially when much of the force employment model is contingency based.
  • While the force structure built will provide a system of training and career progression, it is very thin on having enough stable silos within which doctrine development and skill and capability retention can take place. There is a point where the force is large enough to sustain its basic skill levels but is too small to develop beyond those basics. This structure is at that point and one would have a very, very difficult time ever expanding this force in the future to be able to get back to expeditionary deployments or even participate in an alliance. The RCN is perhaps best postured for that and to an extent the RCAF. The CA is screwed big time (A Res F would help - hint, hint)
  • We are parking a lot of CA gear (We could easily equip a good sized Res F from what we're parking - hint, hint). We also have the infrastructure.
So that's it. Have at it.

🍻
 

daftandbarmy

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Meanwhile, in Joy Killer land:


RIP SSE: What the COVID-19 Pandemic Means for Defence Funding​


Introduction​

“… as the world economy slumps and debt piles up, guns may lose out to butter”
The Economist
, April 26, 2020

The pattern is straightforward and has been so for a generation. The economy goes into a recession. The federal deficit balloons due to a corresponding drop in revenue and a short-run increase in government spending to deal with the slump. The economic recovery takes hold. Ottawa begins to bring its finances back into order through cuts to departmental spending. The defence department takes a big hit through this process.

This is the likely fate awaiting Strong, Secure, Engaged – the Trudeau government’s defence white paper – and its associated funding.


 

KevinB

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CSOC: Canadian Special Operations Command: Lots of neat stuff (4,000 pers).
CFB Petawawa, BGen
HQ 200 personnel (not including attachments from subordinate structures)

This is the main force for identifying, and dismantling the various separatist forces - as well of foreign actors that would support them.
Some interaction with local and Federal LEA - however due to the unknown ability of the Separatists to penetrate those, most operations are conducted first with information passage later.



DATF (Direct Action Task Force)
3 Squadrons of Assaulters; each with 2 40 pers Troops - total 300 pers (inc Staff and LO)
1 Troop from each OP Sqn is on IRU with monthly rotations.
A Sqn - Training CFB Petawawa
B Sqn - Montreal
C Sqn - Calgary



AFO: Advance Force Operations
3 Squadrons of Operators; each with 2 40 pers Troops - total 300 pers (Inc staff and LO)

D Sqn - Counter Revolutionary Warfare - troops deployed to AB/SK, and Que. as well as LO work with Fed Int and LEA.

E Sqn - Russian Development Group - troops rotating on a NOC role through Russia etc.
Prep to sabotage, assassinate, and replay Russian operations from inside their borders.

F Sqn - Training and Support.
Vancouver

HIG: Human Intelligence Group
4 Squadrons focus on Human Source Collection 80 pers / SQN 400 pers total (inc staff and LO)

G Sqn Quebec City - focus on Quebece Separatist issues

H Sqn Edmonton - focus on Alberta Separatist Issues

I Sqn Vancouver - Overseas AOR

J Sqn Vancouver - Training, Support and Language School

SIG: Signals Intelligence Group
Ottawa - with deployable cells to support ops as needed (300 pers)

ISR: Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance
3 Deployable Groups and 1 Training Group - 500 pers
Some civilian fixed and rotary wing assets for low visibility observation, as well as radar, and UAV

JCG: Joint Communications Group
4 deployable groups and 1 training group - 500 personnel

MSG: Mobility Support Group
Overt and Covert Mobility Support - 500 personnel
4 Ground Support Teams
4 Marine Support Teams

EMG: Emergency Medical Group
4 Deployable Surgical Teams - and 1 Training Group - 500 personnel

ASP: Airborne Support Package
500 Pers under a COL -
18x MH-60G PaveHawk
12x MH-47F
18x A/MH-6 Little Bird
Nondescript Civilian AC as well.
 

KevinB

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and now for the Air Force

RCAF: Royal Canadian AirForce: Fixed WIng Transport, Support and Air Defence Fighters) (1,000 pers)

C-17 x6.
3@ CFB Trenton and 3 OPCOM to CSOC 1 @ Calgary 1 @ Montreal 1@ CFB Petawawa (new airfield required)
Ck-46 x4 @ CFB Trenton 1 on 5min NTM 1 on 30min NTM
E-767 x3 @ CFB Trenton 1 up 24/7
P-8 x 9 3@ Vancouver 3@ Victoria 3@Summerside PEI
MC-130H x30 10 @ CFB Trenton (15 OPCOM to CSOC: 5 @ each of Calgary, Montreal, Petawawa) and 5 @ NorthBay (Training)

F-35 x 120 (Sqns at Victoria, Cold Lake, MooseJaw, NorthBay, Baggotville, Gander)
 

KevinB

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TSA - Tactical Support Aviation: Rotary Wing, Fixed WIng Ground Support, UAV (2,000 pers)
BGen: 200 staff

100x MH-60G 8 Sqn (1each at CFB Vancouver, Edmonton, Shilo, NorthBay, Trenton, Montreal, Quebec City, Gagetown)
50x MH-47F 4 Sqn (1ea @CFB Shilo, CFB Gagetown, CFB NorthBay, Vancouver) 2 airframe for training at CFB NorthBay
50x AH-1. same as 47's
12x AH-6. Training Sqn at CFB NorthBay
12x. MH-6. Training x4 others as Liaison/Support AC to LIB's
150x. MQ-1D UAV Dispersed Support Teams
 

Halifax Tar

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I would basically fold the Army completely. ( We really don't need a full time Army in Canada)

All Army equipment if it cant be utilized will be sold or scrapped.

Set up remote missile battery's on the coasts for air and sea approach defense.

I would basically fold everything into the RCN.

Giving 1 command stream the control of everything that floats and fly's.

RCN

I would have three surface action groups, 2 in Esq and 1 in Hfx.

Surface Action Group:
1 x Mistral (For AAD and ASW)
1 x AOR
6 x CSCs
3 x AOPs

Sub surface action groups:

5 x SSNs on each coast. Rotating deployments into the polar region.

RCNAS

100 F35s

25 x East Coast

25 x west coast

50 x Central - North

LRP Remains in situ with new Aircraft. (P8s ?)

C17s and Hurcs continue on but with more of an emphasis in material movement than people as we wont be expeditionary anymore.

SOF:
100 - 200 pers
Very small, highly equipped with dedicated air lift and all the toys they want and need. Only used for in and out missions. Both domestic and
foreign, if asked for.
 

Good2Golf

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Actually, roll the existing navy into the Coast Guard. Then we wouldn’t forget the maritime/airborne SAR that was dripped
In haste. 😉
 

KevinB

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RCN: Royal Canadian Navy (5,000 pers)
Vice Admiral - HQ Ottawa (200 pers for staff and LO positions)

LA Class SSN x 10 (3 West Coast, 3 East Coast, 3 Arctic, 1 training/spare) aprox 1,600 SubSurface personnel inc trainers, and trainees.
AOPS x 10 (3 West Coast, 3 East Coast, 3 Arctic, 1 training/spare) @ aprox 1000 personnel inc trainers, and trainees
Zumwalt x 5 (2 West Coast, 2 East Coast and 1 training/spare -@147/ship+28 for MH and UAV dets for 175/shop and an aprox 1000 personnel inc trainers, and trainees.
each w/ 2xSH-60 MH Det's -choice of the Zum simply due to low signature high speed and firepower as a SCC
Fast Combat Support Ship x3 2 West Coats and 1 East Coast @ 240/ship aprox 1000 personnel inc trainers, and trainees

Also because I don't have much of a clue as to actual maintenance and support needed for such - I suspected the remaining pers wouldn't be close to enough - but I have a Joint Support Command to assist at Joint Base Ports - plus apparently Woke can hire contractors ;)
 

Halifax Tar

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SAR should be divested to the coast guard.

And I'm cool that too. But I'm not sure our coast guard has the interest in armed vessels.
 

KevinB

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Ah the Canadian Army - wonder why I left it for last ;)
CA HQ: COL (100 Staff)
I budgeted 5k for personnel.

6 LI Bn's @ 800 each
CFBs Victoria, Edmonton, Shilo, NorthBay, Valcartier, Gagetown
*LIB's also rotate Security Force personnel to support C&S Operations with CSOC - and personnel for RCAF and RCN Local Defence Tasks.
** All LIB pers jump qualified - and Arctic equipped
2 Armoured Cav/Recce Reg't (@400 each) w/ LAV variants
CFB Shilo
1 x Arty Reg't M777 2x8 gun Bty (300 pers)

1x BV206 Mobility Reg't (2 Inf BN worth) -@400 pers
NorthBay

Trg Cadre - CFB Gagetown 200 pers.
 

Good2Golf

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SAR should be divested to the coast guard.

And I'm cool that too. But I'm not sure our coast guard has the interest in armed vessels.
ArmyRick’s marching orders didn’t include the CCG’s feelings. Pragmatically, a coastal (primarily constabulary) focus with some ability to marry up to a SNMG or the like would suffice.
 

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Interesting thread. Even more interesting is that nobody has used, or mentioned CFB Comox in their ideas.
It was implicit in a number of options that had two VP/LRP Sqns remaining. Most options seem to consider whatever 407 would become as a 14 Wg Det. I’m sure it’s not hurt feelings…just like in DRAP when some folks lost their Wing overnight. The Government wasn’t making it personal…just pragmatic. I suspect housing prices around Crown Isle would take a hit though….
 

KevinB

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Interesting thread. Even more interesting is that nobody has used, or mentioned CFB Comox in their ideas.
I can never keep up with which bases are still operational in BC - so I used Vic and Van for anything around there ;)
 

foresterab

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Random take...and no idea if this is functional or not.

RCAF - 4,000 personnel
  1. Primary fixed wing airframe is the C-130. While I'd like heavier lift I'm choosing a single air frame that can be used for multiple task (SAR, transport, civilian aid, patrol...I know it's not a CC-140 but it's a presence), operate on a variety of airstrips and integrate with US Forces if needed. Minimum of 30 airframes to form 4x6 plane squadrons plus extra airframes to allow for contracted out maintenance/overhaul via either Abbotsford, BC (sorry...can't remember company name) or US.
  2. Secondary fleet is heavy lift helicopters. Not sure if it's best to have Chinooks as the airframe but would want a minimum of 12 that are tasked primarily with troop lift and small equipment transport. Think of slinging a D4 dozer over a rock fall created by sabotage to clear roadways and/or site securement. Looking for at least 20 birds here for again 2x6 ship squadrons with remainder in service/maintenance replacement.
  3. UAV. This a major change and will become the replacement for much of the current strike aircraft. Multiple high loiter time UAV with limited strike capacity will be used to augment satellite/C-130 patrols for maritime use and to provide intelligence for detection. Incorporated into this will be any existing satellites owned by Canadian Forces but will be based upon many drones that can in turn be controlled by a central site command.

RCN - 4,000 personnel
  1. Existing frigates and submarines are turfed as not meeting new mission profile. Likewise supply ships. I hate giving up supply but in the absence of foreign mission profiles this becomes tough to support.
  2. Primary fleet will be a small gunboat style ship (I think of WW2 minesweeper size) with ability to support RHIB level support boats and emphasis upon limited missile protection and heavy on sonar/radar. Modern automation to limit crew requirements these vessels are a combination inshore patrol unit and able to search/scan for insertion teams via radar/sonar. Must be small enough to also enter the Great Lakes (if required) but looking at closer to 25 vessels splits between Esqualimut (4), Prince Rupert(4), Tuktoyaktuk(3), Inuvik(3), Churchill(3), St. Johns(4), Halifax(4). Multiple ships assigned to each base to allow for rotation of crews/vessels and frankly to ensure that single boat loss is not a full fleet or capacity loss. Artic vessels shift location as needed depending upon ice conditions.
  3. Secondary missions based upon communications relay/UAV battery replacement/offshore mapping especially for river deltas to ensure insertion is made more difficult.
Army - 4,000 personnel
  1. Limited capacity for conventional units so this becomes a heavy emphasis upon special forces. JTF2 is expanded to include two battalions (750 each) which are operationally structured upon small units. Training in urban support for civilian agencies (RCMP et. al.) and further by mountain/sea/artic teams so that each has a standby platoon? unit available to parachute/transport to area of emergency upon either local state of emergency civil aid request and/or Russian insertion report.
  2. 500 men - Signals and AI intelligence function. This is a greater, more threat specific role than that covered by CSIS but includes not just the use of radio/cell interceptions but also operational security and cyberwarfare. Small motivated teams in server rooms can do terrible things to many different parts of the world and is an under ratted threat.
  3. Two engineer teams (800 total) who are based upon IED disposal, explosive use (for emergency clearance of disaster areas/terrorist attacks), and heavy equipment. This is the group who will create the new airfield/helibase needed for an attack at X location if the main airport is not available.
  4. Medical support teams - 300 total these are enough to man one DART team in a hostile environment and allows for one replacement crew. Training is above that of a military field medic.
  5. Security teams - 900 total split between base defense roles and police powers. Designed to provide the civilian/military interface when dealing with a terrorist situation and provide a formal structure on how to address prisoner management within an insurgent/invasion team.
Command - 1000
  1. Focus is upon two key aspects. 1) Intelligence upon what is going on as a military threat and 2) coordination with civilian agencies. Unfortunately this means that most staff will be stuck in Ottawa with heavy presence in both Quebec City and Edmonton but unavoidable. Heavy use of exchange positions with US Forces via modified NORAD agreement (which I assume has also been rewritten) to ensure capacity and field situation is updated daily.
  2. Command promotion is based upon not just efficient use of assets for gathering intelligence but also upon proven performance in field/liaison role with inter-agency missions. For trained specialists who wish to remain in the current level at a field unit promotion will be recognized as subject matter experts at the cost of trade of chasing future rank.
 

ArmyRick

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Love the brain storming going on. I just finished a 9 hour day cutting dead cows into smaller pieces and then my farming.

I see some awesome paradigm shifting and boxes being thrown right out (let alone think outside the box).

Gonna comment more in a few days. I am also going to participate and No, I do not have a pre-loaded scenario to launch.
 
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