Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

[Colin Parkinson]

Since I had my reserve service sorted out for the pension stuff, it should in theory be a simple matter to advise our compensation clerks of the determination made by the pension type. No doubt the compensation types won't accept stuff done by the pension types and I will have to resubmit everything again.

 

[bridges]

Also this is a bit different because the PS will be excluding any Class A time, and Class B/C time < 180 days (unless contiguous with another pd of svc).

 

[Northern Ranger]

On my MPRR is say PFTPS (previous full time paid service) 331 days.  I have this for my YTEP year (yes I was one).  My question is do other members have numbers there but its because they did ten 30 day contracts?  If thats the case I don't know what to provide, will have to check my docs maybe for the pension buy back.

Fishing trip number two planned.

 

[dapaterson]

CANFORGEN just released on this topic.

CANFORGEN 129/12 HRCIV 008/12 291741Z JUN 12
RECOGNITION OF PRIOR SERVICE IN THE CANADIAN FORCES FOR VACATIO
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. DIRECTIVE ON TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT

B. RELEVANT COLLECTIVE AGREEMENTS

C. FEDERAL BUDGET 2012



FOLLOWING AN ANNOUNCEMENT IN BUDGET 2012, PRIOR SERVICE WITH THE CANADIAN FORCES WILL BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT IN THE CALCULATION OF VACATION LEAVE CREDITS FOR EMPLOYEES IN THE CORE PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION


EFFECTIVE APRIL 1, 2012, THE DIRECTIVE ON TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT HAS BEEN AMENDED TO ALLOW FOR RECOGNITION OF ANY FORMER SERVICE IN THE CANADIAN FORCES FOR A CONTINUOUS PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS OR MORE, EITHER AS A MEMBER OF THE REGULAR FORCE OR OF THE RESERVE FORCE WHILE ON CLASS B OR C SERVICE. THE CHANGE IS FORWARD-LOOKING AND THERE SHALL BE NO RECALCULATION OF ENTITLEMENTS FOR VACATION YEARS BEFORE APRIL 1, 2012


ELIGIBLE EMPLOYEES ARE TO PROVIDE THEIR COMPENSATION UNIT WITHIN THEIR CIVILIAN HUMAN RESOURCES SERVICE CENTRE WITH PROOF OF RELEVANT CF SERVICE


ELIGIBLE EMPLOYEES WILL BE CREDITED WITH THE APPROPRIATE VACATION LEAVE CREDITS AS PER THE PROVISIONS OF THEIR RELEVANT COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT OR TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT RECEIPT OF SEVERANCE FROM THE CANADIAN FORCES HAS NO IMPACT ON THIS ANNOUNCEMENT


THESE PROVISIONS HAVE AN IMMEDIATE APPLICATION TO FORMER CF MEMBERS WHOSE RELEVANT COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT IS IN FORCE AND WILL APPLY UPON SIGNATURE OF NEW COLLECTIVE AGREEMENTS TO FORMER CF MEMBERS WHOSE AGREEMENT IS CURRENTLY BEING NEGOTIATED


THIS MESSAGE MUST BE DISTRIBUTED TO ALL DND EMPLOYEES AND MILITARY AND CIVILIAN MANAGERS, INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE NO ACCESS OR LIMITED ACCESS TO THE DWAN TO ENSURE THAT ALL EMPLOYEES ARE AWARE OF THIS PROVISION


DETAILS SURROUNDING THE ADMINISTRATION OF THIS PROVISION ARE AVAILABLE ON THE ADM(HR-CIV) INTRANET SITE UNDER THE LEAVE SECTION AT THE FOLLOWING LINK: HTTP://HR.OTTAWA-HULL.MIL.CA/HRCIV/DGLRC/DLRPP/EN/HOME(UNDERSCORE)E. ASP(INTERROGATION SIGN)REFERENCE(EQUAL SIGN)110510035(NUMBER SIGN)15. ALL QUESTIONS ARE TO BE ADDRESSED THROUGH YOUR CIVILIAN HUMAN RESOURCES SERVICE CENTRE

 

[Occam]

DETAILS SURROUNDING THE ADMINISTRATION OF THIS PROVISION ARE AVAILABLE ON THE ADM(HR-CIV) INTRANET SITE UNDER THE LEAVE SECTION AT THE FOLLOWING LINK: HTTP://HR.OTTAWA-HULL.MIL.CA/HRCIV/DGLRC/DLRPP/EN/HOME(UNDERSCORE)E. ASP(INTERROGATION SIGN)REFERENCE(EQUAL SIGN)110510035(NUMBER SIGN)15.

YAYYYY(EXCLAMATION MARK)(EXCLAMATION MARK)(EXCLAMATION MARK)(EXCLAMATION MARK)

 

[GAP]

Does this work in reverse?


If a PS employee with say....10 years in, joins the CF, is their vacation time increased?

 

[dapaterson]

Does this work in reverse?


If a PS employee with say....10 years in, joins the CF, is their vacation time increased?

No.

 

[Remius]

And the response I got today was....


Good day,

We acknowledge the Treasury Board Release dated June 20, 2012 regarding:  Government Moves to Recognize Previous Military Service of Public Servants

Thank you for your enquiry.  However, before we can move forward with the application of this entitlement, the Civilian Compensation Community still requires further confirmation from Treasury Board.  This confirmation, which we expect in the nearest future, comes via a Compensation Directive and provides all aspects on the application of this entitlement. Also, within this Directive, it will contain the specifics on what exactly (what specific document{s}) will be required to provide proof of service with the Canadian Forces in order for you to benefit from this measure.

In the meantime, we ask for your patience and understanding in this regard and once Civilian Compensation Services has received this explicit information, we will then be able to fully respond to your enquiry.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please submit a new enquiry or if you do not have access to the DIN, we can also be reached by telephone at 613-971-0499 or toll free at 1-855-450-7669. Thank you and have a nice day!

 

[dapaterson]

And the response I got today was....


Good day,

We acknowledge the Treasury Board Release dated June 20, 2012 regarding:  Government Moves to Recognize Previous Military Service of Public Servants

Thank you for your enquiry.  However, before we can move forward with the application of this entitlement, the Civilian Compensation Community still requires further confirmation from Treasury Board.  This confirmation, which we expect in the nearest future, comes via a Compensation Directive and provides all aspects on the application of this entitlement. Also, within this Directive, it will contain the specifics on what exactly (what specific document{s}) will be required to provide proof of service with the Canadian Forces in order for you to benefit from this measure.

In the meantime, we ask for your patience and understanding in this regard and once Civilian Compensation Services has received this explicit information, we will then be able to fully respond to your enquiry.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please submit a new enquiry or if you do not have access to the DIN, we can also be reached by telephone at 613-971-0499 or toll free at 1-855-450-7669. Thank you and have a nice day!

That's a cut and paste email that they send out (my friends and I have seen it several times).

Odd that they'd release a CANFORGEN and then plead ignorance of the topic...

 

[Remius]

Yup.  I even quoted the CANFORGEN/HRCIV.

I wasn't going to inquire until it came out.

Sigh.

 

[Bigmac]

I am a Compensation Advisor with the Public Service. Before that, I served in the CF for 26 years. Believe me I want this actioned as quickly as possible too.

The issue is that all compensation departments need a clear and detailed directive from NHQ Compensation on how to apply the CF service toward PS leave credits. We also need to know what proof of military service is required. Does a copy of a MPRR suffice or do we need more official paperwork?

I tried to push the issue with my manager and even showed her a copy of my MPRR and service ID. The answer I got was the same as yours. We have to wait until NHQ Compensation gives us a directive. We all know how to hurry up and wait so please be patient. The directive will be coming soon I hope.

 

[dapaterson]

I tried to push the issue with my manager and even showed her a copy of my MPRR and service ID. The answer I got was the same as yours. We have to wait until NHQ Compensation gives us a directive. We all know how to hurry up and wait so please be patient. The directive will be coming soon I hope.

NDHQ compensation has many, many well-paid individuals whose job is to be on top of things.  That this was announced at the end of March, yet we're over three months later and being told that they still haven't sorted it out suggests that they are not meeting their performance goals - and one hopes that everyone, from ADM(HR-Civ) down, who is in receipt of performance pay is being suitably penalized for this ongoing failure.

 

[Canuck4ever]

I am a Compensation Advisor with the Public Service. Before that, I served in the CF for 26 years. Believe me I want this actioned as quickly as possible too.

The issue is that all compensation departments need a clear and detailed directive from NHQ Compensation on how to apply the CF service toward PS leave credits. We also need to know what proof of military service is required. Does a copy of a MPRR suffice or do we need more official paperwork?

I find it somewhat disconcerting that the current proof required are obscure documents that are typically not retained by CF members
• service as a contributor under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act;
• service that has been elected as pensionable service under sub-subparagraph 6.(1)(b)(iii)(C) of the Public Service Superannuation Act; or
• service as Reserve Force Class B or C for which (a) and (b) do not apply, that can be validated to the satisfaction of the Employer.

In my case, I retired from CF in 2006 with 28 years and the Superannuation document they mention goes from 1978 to 2006 (luckily I found mine).  From 2006 to 2011, I worked as Class B (330 days per year) but those years are not reflected on the Superannuation document nor will they ever be as I was collecting my CF pension.  The only three documents I have that prove my 32 years are the new Certificate of Service that states 32 Years Service (Jun 1978-April 2011), the NDI 75 card and copies of the yearly SOU that I signed every year as a class B.  I'm hoping that my Certificate of Service will bring me to the 30 days leave without a fight as my Superannuation doc covers me for 28 years of CF service and will serve as validation to the satisfaction of my Employer.

I would recommend that better type of documentation is required (one potentially that retired members still have).  My 2 cents

PS:  Let's get it done!

 

[bridges]

Furthermore, there's a bit of a contradiction in their own "Notice to employees":

b) service as a contributor under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act;
c) service that has been elected as pensionable service under sub-subparagraph 6.(1)(b)(iii)(C) of the Public Service Superannuation Act; or
d) service as Reserve Force Class B or C for which (b) and (c) do not apply, that can be validated to the satisfaction of the Employer.

I have many, many pds of Class B >180 days - I've since elected to count them under CFSA, so they don't fall under (d) above.  But I can't submit my service as a CFSA contributor in (b), because that also includes pds of <180 days, and Class A time, neither of which counts towards PS vacation entitlements.  So how to submit this time, I wonder-?

It seems that the part saying "...employees may submit their proof of service at any time..." is a bit premature.

 

[Remius]

I am a Compensation Advisor with the Public Service. Before that, I served in the CF for 26 years. Believe me I want this actioned as quickly as possible too.

The issue is that all compensation departments need a clear and detailed directive from NHQ Compensation on how to apply the CF service toward PS leave credits. We also need to know what proof of military service is required. Does a copy of a MPRR suffice or do we need more official paperwork?

I tried to push the issue with my manager and even showed her a copy of my MPRR and service ID. The answer I got was the same as yours. We have to wait until NHQ Compensation gives us a directive. We all know how to hurry up and wait so please be patient. The directive will be coming soon I hope.

The problem is that the CANFORGEN/HRCIV is somewhat misleading us into thinking that they are ready.

 

[bridges]

The problem is that the CANFORGEN/HRCIV is somewhat misleading us into thinking that they are ready.

EXACTLY.  The docs that the CANFORGEN links to say things like it's every member's responsibility to self-identify, and members can submit their docs at any time.  Maybe true, but premature.

What the CFG should have said is "Don't submit anything until such-and-such instruction comes out from HR-Civ Compensation."

 

[bridges]

The HR information notice is now up as well - but it reflects nothing new.  I'm wondering if this is the "specific instruction" they were referring to. 

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hr-rh/in-ai/2012/0620-eng.asp

 

[Canuck4ever]

The HR information notice is now up as well - but it reflects nothing new.  I'm wondering if this is the "specific instruction" they were referring to. 

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hr-rh/in-ai/2012/0620-eng.asp

This is the same information Public Safety Canada issued to its members over a week ago.  Works great if you still have copy of documentation.  Additionally, document only covers end of Reg Force service and does not cover time spent from end of Reg Force to end of Class B >180 days (i.e. double dippers) - in my case 4 years which would put me over 30 day threshold.

 

[dapaterson]

The newest version of the standard DND HR-Civ email reply to requests:

Good day,

If you are a former member of the Canadian Forces with a continuous service period of six months or more, either as a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force while on Class B or C service, you must provide record of service to your compensation unit within your service centre with proof of relevant CF service.  It is your responsibility to self identify and to provide a record of your service with the Canadian Forces.

As example, proof of service such as:

a)  Any official document from the Forces that indicate your record of service such as a copy of the Request for certificate of service (DND 2380)

Former CF members may request a copy of the record of service by contacting the Directorate Military Career Administration (DMCA).

Directorate Military Career Administration (DMCA)
Tel: 1(866) 240-6726
Tel NCR: 613-995-0953
E-mail: +DMCA 4 RELEASE@CMP DMCA@Ottawa-Hull (Outlook at work)
E-mail from home: dgmc-release-dgcm-liberation@forces.gc.ca

Your request must indicate the type of service ie. regular and/or reserve service. It is important that you provide DMCA with the following information:

Name: John Dow
Service Number: F11 222 333
CFSA Pension Number (Optional): 0012233

b)  Service as a contributor under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act;
c)  Service that has been elected as pensionable service under sub-subparagraph 6.(1)(b)(iii)(c) of the Public Service Superannuation Act; or
d)  Service as Reserve Force Class B or C for which (b) and (c) do not apply, that can be validated to the satisfaction of the Employer.

Note: Exact dates and service type must be provided. Therefore, the record of service card is not considered an official document (NDI 75).

For more information, please visit the ADM HR-Civ website at http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/hrciv/dglrc/dlrpp/en/home_e.asp?reference=110510035#15.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please submit a new enquiry or if you do not have access to the DIN, we can also be reached by telephone at 613-971-0499 or toll free at 1-855-450-7669. Thank you and have a nice day!

 

[Canuck4ever]

Tks - Dapat  ;-)