Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

[Canuck4ever]

To make this clear - I was a Class B reservist (330 days max) with JTFA.  My understanding is that current formula only applies to FORMER members of CF (Class, A, B, C or Reg).  If you currently serve as a reservist (6 months continuous or more) and you've been working for the prov of NS - you only get leave as per NS regulations.  If you were to get a job with public service, your time in the Reserve would NOT count for public service leave purposes even if you had years in since you are currently a member of CF and NOT a FORMER member

Example class A, going to Class C for Afghanistan and then back to Class A to work at schoolboard.  In total 3 years full-time service.  Those three years would not count if you got a job in public service unless you retired from military (FORMER member).

I am not an expertor a lawyer, but from what I read, current implementation only impacts FORMER members of CF (which is good news for some of us and a step in right direction).  No such thing as double leave credits  ;-) 

 

[Rheostatic]

The presentation you're referencing has been posted; note it does not provide the text of the new policy or how it will be implemented.

 

[bridges]

@Canuck4ever, I get it now - sorry for the misunderstanding. 

My impression is that it would apply to former service - i.e., service completed before you joined the PS - and whether you're still in the CF or not will be irrelevant. 

Otherwise, if someone is in the Reg F or F/T Res F & switches to Class A in order to take a PS job, they'd be starting from square 1 with PS vacation time - that would be a major disincentive to continued service, and would seem to be against the spirit of the initiative in the first place.

However, as has been mentioned many times, all we're getting so far is "briefing" language, not the actual nitty-gritty of the regulations.  That won't come until after C-38 is passed by Parliament. 

 

[Occam]

I think DAP pointed out a little while ago that none of this hinges upon the budget being passed, it's simply regulations that need to be changed.  And, of course, the language will either be written into new collective agreements, or into MOUs for those unions who already have current collective agreements.

 

[bridges]

I think DAP pointed out a little while ago that none of this hinges upon the budget being passed, it's simply regulations that need to be changed. 

If you mean dapaterson, I think he was just saying that the FAA wouldn't need to be changed, nor any other legislation.  Regulations & collective agreements are all that need to be changed, but this still depends on the approval from Parliament via C-38.  At least, that's how I understand the process.

Meanwhile, getting my memo ready to ask for my period of PS LWOP for CF svc to be counted as well.... bit of a long shot, but worth a try. 

 

[Grapeshot]

This initiative hinges on the Omnibus Bill C-38 being passed as the the statement "Starting on April 1, 2012 and on a go-forward basis, the prior years of service of former members of the Canadian Forces who join the public service will be recognized for the purpose of calculating vacation entitlements." is contained within the Bill.

If it applies to you, keep your fingers crossed that Parliament will formally pass the Bill today and that the Senate will fast track it through their process in short order. Hopefully, it will receive Royal Ascent prior to the summer holiday break at which time Treasury Board will release the policy directive.

 

[Occam]

This initiative hinges on the Omnibus Bill C-38 being passed as the the statement "Starting on April 1, 2012 and on a go-forward basis, the prior years of service of former members of the Canadian Forces who join the public service will be recognized for the purpose of calculating vacation entitlements." is contained within the Bill.

I can assure you that you will not find any of the quoted text above within Bill C-38.

 

[Grapeshot]

Occam,

Check out the actual budget document at the following link:

http://www.budget.gc.ca/2012/plan/toc-tdm-eng.html

Chapter 5 under the heading "Public Sector Compensation" contains the phrase regarding CF service counting towards PS leave time, etc...

The budget will come into effective with Bill C-38 receiving Royal Accent.

 

[aesop081]

Check out the actual budget document at the following link:

http://www.budget.gc.ca/2012/plan/toc-tdm-eng.html

That is the "budget plan". You stated it was a quote from C-38.

This initiative hinges on the Omnibus Bill C-38 being passed as the the statement "Starting on April 1, 2012 and on a go-forward basis, the prior years of service of former members of the Canadian Forces who join the public service will be recognized for the purpose of calculating vacation entitlements." is contained within the Bill.

 

[Grapeshot]

CDNAviator,

The quote is in the Budget Plan, however, its implied in Bill C-38.

My bad!

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... via a news release (highlights mine):

The Honourable Tony Clement, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for FedNor, today announced that the Government has moved ahead with changes to recognize prior years of service of former members of the Canadian Forces who join the Public Service.

"The Government is proud of our men and women in uniform who put their lives on the line for their country. Once they leave the Canadian Forces, it is only fair that we take their military service into account should they continue to serve their country in the Public Service of Canada," said Minister Clement.

Following its Economic Action Plan 2012 commitment, the Government has taken administrative steps to recognize prior service in the Canadian Forces for the purposes of calculating vacation entitlement in the Public Service of Canada.

As of April 1, 2012, and going forward, any former service in the Canadian Forces for a continuous period of six months or more, either as a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force while on Class B or C service, will be included in the calculation of vacation leave credits. Eligible former military personnel who have joined organizations for which the Treasury Board is the employer will be asked to identify themselves to their compensation services and provide a record of service with the Canadian Forces in order to benefit from this measure.

"I will also be encouraging other federal government employers to follow suit to ensure former Canadian Forces personnel can be recognized across the federal government,” said Minister Clement.

 

[bridges]

Received copies of a few TBS bulletins by e-mail today; they don't seem to be aval on the web at this moment, so they should be considered unverified.  But here's the content, # 1/3:

TBSSCT #1081974-v1

Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
Template Message

Recognition of Prior Service in Canadian Forces for Vacation Purposes

As part of Budget 2012, the Government of Canada announced changes to vacation entitlements in recognition of prior military service. Effective April 1, 2012, prior years of service of former members of the Canadian Forces who join the Public Service are to be recognized for the purpose of calculating vacation entitlements.

If you are a former member of the Canadian Forces with a continuous service period of six months or more, either as a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force while on Class B or C service, please contact your compensation advisor so that your former military service can be included in the calculation of vacation leave credits.

You will need to provide a record of your service with the Canadian Forces such as:
a) service as a contributor under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act;
b) service that has been elected as pensionable service under sub-subparagraph 6.(1)(b)(iii)(C) of the Public Service Superannuation Act; or
c) service as Reserve Force Class B or C for which (a) and (b) do not apply, that can be validated to the satisfaction of the Employer.

Eligible employees will be credited with the appropriate vacation leave credits as per the provisions of their relevant collective agreement.

Qualifying service will count retroactively from April 1, 2012, for the calculation of additional leave credits of former Canadian Forces members. However, for those former Canadian Forces members whose collective agreement is currently being negotiated, while the start date of the former service qualification will also be April 1, 2012, this calculation will not take effect until after the new collective agreement has been signed.

The change is forward-looking, and there shall be no recalculation of entitlements for vacation years before April 1, 2012.

 

[bridges]

... # 2/3...  again, unverified as yet.

TBSSCT # 1081981 V1

Questions and Answers

For human resources personnel
June 2012


Recognition of Prior Service in Canadian Forces
for Vacation Purposes for Employees of the Core Public Administration


Q1: Are all periods of past military service counted in the calculation of vacation leave credits?

A1: Effective April 1, 2012, any former service in the Canadian Forces for a continuous period of six months or more, either as a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force while on Class B or C service, will be included in the calculation of vacation leave credits. The change is forward-looking and there shall be no recalculation of entitlements for vacation years before April 1, 2012.


Q2: Why is full-time service in the Canadian Forces counted only as periods of service that have a minimum duration of six months or greater?

A2: The minimum six month period is consistent with the qualifying period for a number of other benefits, such as pension and insurances. As such, there is a long-standing precedent established for the calculation of admissible Canadian Forces service used for the election of pensionable service under the Public Service Superannuation Act.


Q3: Can an employee of the Public Service who is currently a member of the Reserve Force count their current, or future, full-time service?

A3: No, an employee cannot earn concurrent vacation credits in both the Public Service and the Canadian Forces.

Given that a significant number of Public Service employees are concurrently members of the Reserve Force, the consideration of part-time Class A service or short-term Class B or C service would unintentionally result in the simultaneous duplication or in the acceleration of the accumulation of vacation credits over the same period of time (i.e. pyramiding of entitlements).

For current or future military service to be considered, a Public Service employee must be on an unpaid leave of absence for such duration that she or he ceases accumulating vacation credits in the Public Service.


Q4: Are continuous periods of Reserve Force service of 6 months or more that are comprised of multiple Class B or C employment periods of less than 6 months considered?

A4: Yes, provided there are no unpaid days between each consecutive Class B and/or Class C employment periods throughout the entire time to be included in the calculation of vacation credits.

For example, a Reserve Force member who deploys on a one-month field exercise on Class B service, then proceeds directly on a three-month course, also on Class B service, and who subsequently is deployed to a domestic emergency on Class C service for two months may count the entire six-month period in the calculation of vacation credits, provided there were no unpaid days between each period of service.

Of note, Reserve Force members are not limited on the number of distinct periods of full-time service, each lasting six months or more, that they may use in calculating their total of full-time service.


Q5: Where can I find a definition of Reserve Force classes of service?

A5: Paid service in the Reserve Force falls under one of three classes of service as follows:

• Class A is part-time service for which a member receives their daily Reserve Force rate of pay for service of six (6) hours or more in a calendar day, or 50% of the daily rate for service under six (6) hours;
• Class B is full-time service for which a member receives their daily Reserve Force rate of pay for each day established in their employment agreement, including days not worked, typically weekends and statutory holidays (N.B. Training, career courses and most other employment within Canada generally falls under this class of service); and
• Class C is full-time service for which a member receives their Regular Force rate of pay for the entire period established in their employment agreement, including days not worked, typically weekends and statutory holidays (N.B. Class C employment generally includes all overseas deployments and domestic operations).

The definitions of Reserve Force classes of service may be found in the Queen’s Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces, Volume I, Section 3 of at: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-01/chapter-chapitre-009-eng.asp#cha-009-06


Q6: What record of service in the Canadian Forces is required in order for the service to be counted for vacation purposes?

A6: Former Canadian Forces members must provide a record of qualifying service such as:
• service as a contributor under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act;
• service that has been elected as pensionable service under Section 6.(1)(b)(iii)(C) of the Public Service Superannuation Act; or
• service as Reserve Force Class B or C for which (a) and (b) do not apply, that can be validated to the satisfaction of the Employer.

 

[bridges]

... and # 3/3.  All should be considered unverified until someone spots them up on the TBS website or receives a signed version.

TBSSCT # 1084060 V.4

DATE: June 20, 2012
TO: Heads of Human Resources, Directors/Chiefs of Labour
Relations and Compensation
SUBJECT: Recognition of Prior Service in the Canadian Forces for Vacation Purposes

Prior service with the Canadian Forces is not currently recognized for the calculation of vacation leave entitlement in the core public administration. Following an announcement in Budget 2012, the Directive on Terms and Conditions of Employment has been amended to allow for recognition of this service.

Effective April 1, 2012, the Directive on Terms and Conditions of Employment has been amended to include service with the Canadian Forces in the definition of ‘service’ for vacation leave purposes. This will allow prior service as a member of the Canadian Forces to be taken into account in the calculation of vacation leave credits for employees of the core public administration.

Any former service in the Canadian Forces for a continuous period of six months or more, either as a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force while on Class B or C service, will be included in the calculation of vacation leave credits. The change is forward-looking and there shall be no recalculation of entitlements for vacation years before April 1, 2012.

Organizations are to ask their employees to contact their Compensation Advisor or the Public Service Pay Centre with a record of service if they have eligible prior service as a member of the Canadian Forces. Compensation staff will review each file and make adjustments as required. Here are examples of what may be used as a record of qualifying service in the Canadian Forces:


(a) service as a contributor under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act;
(b) service that has been elected as pensionable service under sub-subparagraph 6.(1)(b)(iii)(C) of the Public Service Superannuation Act; or
(c) service as Reserve Force Class B or C for which (a) and (b) do not apply, that can be validated to the satisfaction of the Employer.

Eligible employees who come forward will be credited with the appropriate vacation leave credits as per the provisions of the relevant collective agreement or terms and conditions of employment.
Qualifying service will count retroactively from April 1, 2012, for the calculation of additional leave credits of former Canadian Forces members. However, for those employees whose collective agreement is currently being negotiated, while the start date of the former service qualification will also be April 1, 2012, this calculation will not take effect until after the new collective agreement has been signed.

Canadian Forces members do not receive severance or payment in lieu of severance from the public service when they leave the military, consequently their eligible service is not impacted.

There will be no transfer of entitlements or carry-over of accumulated unused vacation leave credits from the Canadian Forces to the core public administration.
All questions from employees are to be directed to their appropriate corporate officials.
In accordance with the Interpretation Requests bulletin, Corporate Departmental Labour Relations and Corporate Compensation Managers and Officers can send any questions regarding this change to the following email address: Interpretations@tbs-sct.gc.ca.

Michael Holt
A/Senior Director
Core Public Administration
Compensation Management
Compensation and Labour Relations
Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer

 

[bridges]

Looks like it's up to each employee to self-identify and furnish the proof of service.

Meanwhile, my 'pressing' question of LWOP for Class B has been answered, in Q3 of the Q&A doc:

For current or future military service to be considered, a Public Service employee must be on an unpaid leave of absence for such duration that she or he ceases accumulating vacation credits in the Public Service.

:nod:

 

[Northern Ranger]

This is great, now to plan a fishing trip. ;D

 

[Occam]

Now if only TBS would stop farting around with our union and ratify a collective agreement...

 

[Rheostatic]

Here's the release from TBS: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/media/nr-cp/2012/0619-eng.asp

 

[dapaterson]

The Directive on Terms and Conditions of Employment (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=15772&section=text) has been amended.  The definition of "Service" now reads:

** Service (service)
For the purpose of determining vacation leave entitlement only, any former service for a continuous period of six months or more in the Canadian Forces, either as a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force while on Class B or C service, shall be included in the calculation of vacation leave credits, once verifiable evidence of such service has been provided in a manner acceptable to the Employer.

 

[bridges]

Just in case anyone was already faxing their MPRR to HR-Civ, wait out.  I floated a query via the web compensation page, just to check the status from their end of things.  Here's the form letter response:

Good day,

We acknowledge the Treasury Board Release dated June 20, 2012 regarding:  Government Moves to Recognize Previous Military Service of Public Servants

Thank you for your enquiry.  However, before we can move forward with the application of this entitlement, the Civilian Compensation Community still requires further confirmation from Treasury Board.  This confirmation, which we expect in the nearest future, comes via a Compensation Directive and provides all aspects on the application of this entitlement. Also, within this Directive, it will contain the specifics on what exactly (what specific document{s}) will be required to provide proof of service with the Canadian Forces in order for you to benefit from this measure.

In the meantime, we ask for your patience and understanding in this regard and once Civilian Compensation Services has received this explicit information, we will then be able to fully respond to your enquiry.

:nod: