• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Reserve Pension- Merged

Thanks for the link, I shall read.

From what's been described, it appears I wouldn't be able to transfer any pension time, definitly did not work 55 months in 60. Too bad, transferring pension time would have made the job offer much more attractive.
 
a Sig Op said:
Thanks for the link, I shall read.

From what's been described, it appears I wouldn't be able to transfer any pension time, definitly did not work 55 months in 60. Too bad, transferring pension time would have made the job offer much more attractive.

It's not all bad.  You can accumulate no more than 35 years (total) under federal pension plans (less the CFSA part I.1, part-time plan - time there does not count).

In my case, on 01 Mar 07 I was enrolled into the Reg F pension plan (part I) and retroactively my 35 year maximum began on my enrolment date (17 1/2 years earlier).  Thus, any days not worked since my enrolment count towards the 35 year maximum time period, but do count towards calculating my pension.

Grossly simplified, in the 17 1/2 preceding years I had worked 9 1/2 years constant class B&C, and the equivalent of another 4 years full time (short class B periods, and class A days multiplied by 1.4).  That makes 13 1/2 years worked, and 4 years "not worked").  This means that the maximum pension I wil be able to receive will be 62% of earnings, as there are 4 years where I did not work in my 35 year maximum.

If you enter the Public Service today you can still accumulate up to 35 years of pensionable service; your prior military service will not count against that limit.  In addition, you can continue to accumulate credit in the Reserve pension plan (assuming you continue to serve).


Hope this clarifies things a bit.
 
[quote
Part I.1 (part-time plan) is not transferrable; part I (full-time / Reg F plan) is transferrable.
[/quote]

DAP:

Does this just apply when transfering the pension to the Federal Public Service?  I was under the impresssion that a "transfer value" under Part I.1 (and Part I) could be transferred to any other Pension Plan so long as the Pension Plan allows it (or to an RRSP).
 
Yes, I'm only talking PSSA.  And I'd recommend talking to the pension folks in New Brunswick even if you're in part I.1; nothing to say the rules won't ever change.
 
Having read through most of this thread I find that it is not only me having problems with the reserve pension system. I did my election the fall of 2007 after waiting seven months trying to get my pay records back to 1973. At this time I only received records for 73 to 77, further inquiries led to finding that the records from 78 to 87 were damaged and not retrievable at this time. As I knew that I was being med released due to injury's related to my service I opted for the 90 days per year and submitted the election. I did not hear anything back till January of 2008 when I received a call stating that the election was now dated for January 08 and not March 07 and that due to this I owed another $7K in interest charges. I made arrangements with the bank to transfer some of my RRSP's to the tune of 72K as my election was over 100K. I also made arrangements with the pension people to start a deduction from my account every month so I could try to make up the difference.
In Feb of 2009 with only three months before I was forced to retire I sent a letter to the board asking that they start the process and never received a reply. Due to being med released I was assigned a counselor and she made an inquiry to the board and received a reply that I would see my pension six months after I released. At the six month mark I contacted the pension board and was told by two different persons that they were moving and they had other files to do as there was an influx of reservists joining the reg force and buying back their pensions to which I replied at least they have jobs and a steady pay to which I do not. Good thing for the SISSP short term disability top up  or I would have been cash strapped.
I kept after them and they finally told me that they were holding up the file due to no records between 77 and 87 and they said that it was not fair for me to take the 90 days. When asked when the records would be fixed they indicated it could take several years to sort them out. And I really love the part about they will not accept any records from taxation T4 slips as I had all those. They finally agreed to the 90 days at base rate to which I do not know is nor how they calculated it. File was turned over to the verification team and I received an email in Dec 2010 as to how much I owed. So another trip to the bank to cash out the remainder of my RRSP's, cheque was cut and sent to them. Received email in Jan of this year indicating they had not received the cheque and that they were having problems with the mail. Finally sorted it out with a new cheque issued in Feb and received by them two days latter. Received another email stating that 7K was still owed, when asked what this was for they answered that they had two systems and now it was combined and this 7k showed up as a shortfall to my fund. I asked that the 6K that I had sitting up there from the extra contributions made every month be used for this and they indicated that they could not use it as it was in another fund and as soon as I payed off the the 7K they would send it back to me. Which now means if I ever get it back I will have to put it in an RRSP if I have any room left after this mess so I don't have to pay tax on it. New check was sent for the 7K first of march and when I inquired the second week to see if they received it was told they would not see it till the last of the month. When I inquired the last of the month the clerk indicated that he was reassigned and the files went to another clerk with no indication as to if they received the cheque or not. Called the pension place again and voiced my displeasure of how I was being treated and that this had gone on long enough. Received a call five days later saying the the cheque was not made out correctly and that they had called the bank which indicated it would take three weeks to fix. I called the bank and spoke with my rep who assured me that once they received it they would do a turnaround in one day. Two days later the rep called this was April 12 and indicated that they had sent the cheque back up. I emailed the clerk indicating that the cheque was on its way and to let me know when it got there. I had a reply a couple of days later saying they would. This week I emailed the clerk several times asking if the cheque had made it and have had no reply. I am at my wits end with this process, nothing like this was explained at the presentations that I attended when I was in. I have made some formal inquiries as to what I can do to speed the process up but all have directed me to contact my local MLA who is a waste of time to talk to and will probable be deposed with this election.
I do not understand why Canada Revenue has to be involved as this was never explained, can someone clue me in to this. Also the comment about SSIP wanting their share back as the info that I read only indicated that any money earned from a job was deductible and when I asked the counselor if this meant reserve pension also she could not answer me. What a way to retire after 36 years with the last 16 being C and B class.
 
RCEME,

I'm sorry, but that's just way too hard to read. You need to break it up into paragraphs, at least.

Cheers
 
RCEME:

The involvement of the Canada Revenue Agency is needed.  For years after 1989 there are limits to the contributions you are allowed to make to retirement arrangements, whether RRSPs or a pension plan.  Since you are now going back and retroactively receiving pension benefits for prior years, CRA has to verify that you are not exceeding your limits for past years, and will adjust your contribution room downwards to reflect the pension benefit you're now receiving.  (Note that because there's a Government contribution to your pension, your contribution room is reduced)

If you are exceeding your maximum permitted contributions (there is a provision for limited over-contributions) then you have two choices: (a) withdraw RRSPs and have them taxed in your hands or (b) reduce the amount you are electing to buy back.

CRA will send a document called a Past Service Pension Adjustment (PSPA) if you need to make an adjustment as highlighted above.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.
 
RCEME: PM sent to you. Reply ASAP.

I had the same problems, but compressed. Pension Services "lost" several of my cheques also!!

To all. As the Auditor General report has been delayed, I urge everyone to take two minutes and send your story to the AG with timelines. The AG then cannot say in their report that no complaints were received.

webmaster-webmestre@oag-bvg.gc.ca

Please send your story.

 
Sorry for the long winded account guys but I had to vent with the latest round of email that I received from the pension people. Rifleman 62 PM sent back to you and thanks for the help.
Dapaterson I have not received any PSPA docs from the CRA as I don't think that the process has hit this step yet. All money that has been sent to the pension system was taken out of my RRSP's which has left me with no RRSP's at all. I would think that this would count towards the system as I was way below my contribution limit every year and still have a large credit that I can contribute to.
 
RCEME said:
Sorry for the long winded account guys but I had to vent with the latest round of email that I received from the pension people. Rifleman 62 PM sent back to you and thanks for the help.
Dapaterson I have not received any PSPA docs from the CRA as I don't think that the process has hit this step yet. All money that has been sent to the pension system was taken out of my RRSP's which has left me with no RRSP's at all. I would think that this would count towards the system as I was way below my contribution limit every year and still have a large credit that I can contribute to.

If you've got a large credit there should not be an issue; you'll end up with revised contribution room after the dust settles.
 
As previously posted, new release date after election. Unfortunately, the RFPP report will be lost in the shidt chucking of chapters 1 and 3. Anywho, who cares?

The Office of the Auditor General of Canada is planning to present its 2011 Spring Report and 2011 Status Report to the Speaker of the House of Commons on Thursday, 9 June 2011.

2011 Spring Report

Chapter 1, Expenditures for the 2010 G8 and G20 Summits.

Chapter 2, G8 Legacy Infrastructure Fund.


Chapter 3, Reserve Force Pension Plan—National Defence. The chapter looks at the approach used by National Defence to plan and implement a pension plan for the Reserve Force. The audit also looked at whether the Department had the means necessary to operate the Plan, including an organizational structure, resources, and information systems and control procedures.
 
Well I was feeling sorry for myself as it's been over 2 years since I was medically released and they're still working on my pension; admittedly half of that was them waiting for me to dig up more old files to fill in the missing gaps, and do an elaborate page of calculations accounting for every dollar of every day they ever paid me over the last 20 years, even though they themselves already had that info. 

The file's been at DCFPS's "final audit" stage for over six weeks and all I can get out of the call centre is "sorry, we have no new information".  They send e-mails to the "team" working on the file, and get only terse responses saying "it's in final audit" and "please wait".  No estimated time of completion.  Came here this thread to see if I was missing anything, but then I read RCEME's post above.  Holy smokes. 

RCEME, I hope you have sent your story with timelines to the AG's office, and I hope when her report is released next week, some chains will be rattled over at DCFPS and the MND's office.  It's no way to treat the members of our armed forces.  Good luck to you.
 
http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_201104_03_e_35222.html

No news here. We know it is screwed up.

Extract: 3.10 To date, there has been little benefit payment activity in the Reserve Force Pension Plan. Information that National Defence provided indicates that, as of 31 March 2010, 99 individuals were receiving an annuity, an annual allowance, or a survivor benefit. A further 627 had received a return of contributions, and there were 977 transfers (rollovers) to the Canadian Forces Pension Plan. About 190 reservists had received a benefit payment under the Canadian Forces Pension Plan.

            3.13 Our scope did not include the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat, which is responsible for overall pension policy and general guidance to National Defence on accounting for the plans. In addition, we did not audit Public Works and Government Services Canada, which manages the pension payroll function on behalf of National Defence and is the lead department for the modernization of business and system processes of all major federal pension plans. Furthermore, we did not examine the Canadian Forces Pension Plan for Regular Force members. Lastly, we did not assess the policy and design of the Reserve Force Pension Plan.

Press Release:

Poor planning and administration have led to backlogs

(Chapter 3—Reserve Force Pension Plan—National Defence—Spring 2011 Report of the Auditor General)

Ottawa, 9 June 2011—National Defence failed to adequately plan and implement a new pension plan for members of the Canadian Forces Reserves, says John Wiersema, Interim Auditor General of Canada, in a Report tabled today in the House of Commons. The Office of the Auditor General undertook a performance audit of the Reserve Force Pension Plan because of problems encountered in its financial audits of the Plan.

“The Reserve Force Pension Plan had been under discussion and development for more than ten years, yet the Department of National Defence dropped the ball,” said Mr. Wiersema. “As a result, many reservists could face delays of seven years or longer to find out what their pension benefits will be.”

The audit found serious backlogs—roughly half of the 21,000 reservists in the Plan have sought to buy back past service, and very few of these requests have been processed. Based on National Defence projections, many reservists could wait seven years or longer to know what pension benefit to expect and what it will cost them. Other pension services are backlogged as well.

Creating a new pension plan is a rare and complex undertaking. National Defence underestimated what it would take to deliver pension services to reservists. As a result, it did not have enough staff or adequate systems and procedures in place to operate the pension plan when it came into effect. The Department did not adequately inform reservists about their options and obligations.

The Department has taken some actions over the past three years to improve administration of the plan, including hiring more staff, acquiring new office space, and developing systems and procedures, but these have not yet resulted in better delivery of pension services to reservists.

“Reservists play a critical role within the Canadian Forces,” said Mr. Wiersema. “They should not have to wait this long to receive the pension services they are entitled to.”
 
The OAG has released their audit.

Audit report: http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/docs/parl_oag_201104_03_e.pdf

Press release: http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/mr_20110609_e_35398.html


Poor planning and administration have led to backlogs

(Chapter 3—Reserve Force Pension Plan—National Defence—Spring 2011 Report of the Auditor General)

Ottawa, 9 June 2011—National Defence failed to adequately plan and implement a new pension plan for members of the Canadian Forces Reserves, says John Wiersema, Interim Auditor General of Canada, in a Report tabled today in the House of Commons. The Office of the Auditor General undertook a performance audit of the Reserve Force Pension Plan because of problems encountered in its financial audits of the Plan.

“The Reserve Force Pension Plan had been under discussion and development for more than ten years, yet the Department of National Defence dropped the ball,” said Mr. Wiersema. “As a result, many reservists could face delays of seven years or longer to find out what their pension benefits will be.”

The audit found serious backlogs—roughly half of the 21,000 reservists in the Plan have sought to buy back past service, and very few of these requests have been processed. Based on National Defence projections, many reservists could wait seven years or longer to know what pension benefit to expect and what it will cost them. Other pension services are backlogged as well.

Creating a new pension plan is a rare and complex undertaking. National Defence underestimated what it would take to deliver pension services to reservists. As a result, it did not have enough staff or adequate systems and procedures in place to operate the pension plan when it came into effect. The Department did not adequately inform reservists about their options and obligations.

The Department has taken some actions over the past three years to improve administration of the plan, including hiring more staff, acquiring new office space, and developing systems and procedures, but these have not yet resulted in better delivery of pension services to reservists.

“Reservists play a critical role within the Canadian Forces,” said Mr. Wiersema. “They should not have to wait this long to receive the pension services they are entitled to.”

- 30 -

 
Think about it

You 'k up consistently - you get fired

Yet 150 plus people get hired to pay 99 files out?

Where is the leadership?

What a classic case beyond SNAFU!

My view of the OAG team who wrote the report

IDIOTS  :rage:
 
I appealed continuously to OAG that I had info WRT the audit. Sent lots of factual info with references.

OAG refused so many times I thought  I was corresponding with VAC.

Plus all are being charged 6 % Compound Interest while waiting to get the info on how much is owed.
 
The AG report on the RFPP is quite disappointing. It is a superficial look at the RFPP that barely scratches the surface of the problems and ignores the causes.

Among the litany of DND excuses is the "complex" policy and regulations. You would think if someone blamed policy or procedure for mission failure this would be the first thing examined to see if there is any truth to the allegation. Not the OAG which decided not to look at policy or regulations at all (para 3.13).

Similarly I fail to understand the AG decision not to audit the RFPP for another two years. Given that the 2007/08 and 2008/09 financial statement are so screwed up that the AG cannot provide an opinion on their reliability you would think the bean counters would be all over DND until they show they can get it right. Instead DND asked to skate for another two years with no one looking over their shoulders and the AG agreed to it (para 3.2). Business as usual for DND. Unbelievable! Perhaps the OAG and DND aren't too concerned about a few hundred million in combined taxpayer and Reservist money in a Reserve pension fund but I care about the $200K share I am putting in.

Both the AG recommendation and DND response to it are vague, containing lots of buzzwords but utterly lacking in anything measurable (para 3.49). For example no resources are identified (dollar values to fix plan, person years) nor is an improvement for the seven year plus timeline for processing an election projected. This leads to another thing missing from this report and that is a thorough examination of leadership issues. Anyone who has spent any amount of time with DND knows that if senior leadership takes an interest in an issue it gets resources and quick action. If senior leadership does not show interest it falls to the wayside. DND couldn't completely disregard the RFPP since SCONDVA was pushing for it and Parliament had amended legislation with the expectation of a Reserve pension plan. They could hinder it with poor direction and lack of resources and this is the one thing that is confirmed by the AG report.

The OAG also decided not to talk to any of the people directly affected by the mismanagement - Reservists (scope and approach, page 17). If they had they would have realized the problems extend well beyond what is identified in the report and the vague promises made in response to the report by DND are the same assurances that have been given to Reservists by DND for years without any results.

I had hoped the AG report would contain something to force some real action by DND. I had hoped to see a quick response from the Minister or CDS with a real action plan to fix the RFPP problems but apparently the disinterest in the RFPP extends to the AG report since I have not been able to find a peep in response to the report. All I see on the horizon is more disappointment. I hope I am wrong but wouldn't bet on it.

My :2c:
 
RLD, I suspect you're right.  It's too bad that this is seen by DND as acceptable.    ???

Just in case this is useful as a benchmark, I recently rec'd my first pension payment in July 2011, 2 years and 4 months after my medical release (which is supposed to lead to an "immediate" annuity). 

Admittedly several months' worth of the delay were caused by me getting my Class A paperwork together and doing a huge spreadsheet of calculations - and, at one point, giving up for a while. 

The initial payment was by direct deposit, and contained 28 months' worth of monthly payments in arrears - or so I believe.  It was not accompanied by a statement of any kind.  At first, when I called the Public Works CF pension office, they denied it was even them - the call centre rep said that all their initial payments were by cheque, not direct deposit.  But then they admitted giving me the money.  I have called several more times to request a statement and have been promised one in the mail "in a week or two".

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, DND continues to take monthly buy-back payments out of my bank account without authority, even though the payments are also coming directly out of the pension cheque, so I am double-paying - which is a considerable expense.  My work ticket about these withdrawals has been transferred to the "team supervisor", who is not returning my calls.  Next step will be to close my bank account and cut them off at the source. 

So a heads-up - even once a pension is in place, it still requires constant vigilance with both the DND pension office (re. the calculations) and the PWGSC CF pension office (re. the payments).  Once DND has your banking info, they will not be shy about using it to withdraw money without authority, even years after you are released and have no more dealings with them.  Prepare to close your bank account if necessary.  Be vigilant, and good luck.     
 
That would suggest that once you leave the DND/CF, you should open a new account for the pension money to be deposited into.  Leave the old account with zero funds.  This would force them to contact you directly to sort out any back-pay issues, not leaving them with the option of grabbing funds without your knowledge or notification, thus being able to ignore your calls.

 

 
Back
Top