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a_majoor said:
Are you talking about the desert cam ones that are frequently seen sitting at the parking lot by Tim Hortons on Wonderland/Gainsborough? If so, who do they belong to? Qatar?
Replacing the M109s
- Thread starter Korus
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Are you talking about the desert cam ones that are frequently seen sitting at the parking lot by Tim Hortons on Wonderland/Gainsborough? If so, who do they belong to? Qatar?
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Ahhhhh ! Yet another "procurement" issue to wade into.......
Doesn't anyone out there read the CF national rag " The Maple Leaf " ? About two monts ago, they showcased the stop-gap measure to respond to the demise of the M109. Yep....the interim plan is to slap the present 105mm C3 ordnance on top of the MLVW. By the time the bugs are worked out ( ie: stability in firing at all angles in a 6400 mil context, stability during travel etc. ), we will have a new MLVW-like vehicle. The Gagetown equipment gurus should be able to shed some light on this. ( I've been out of there nine years now ).
Latest street talk that we Western guys heard was that the M109 is NOT being replaced. Any fire support above regimental level will come from coalition sources. ( As someone mentioned in this thread, and he is 'bang on', it is 105's and mortars for now.) No new artillery systems are on the immediate horizon.
The last thing we need is another GIAT ! The British Light Gun, with its' L119 barrel ( which accomodates M1 series ammo ), won the competition hands down. We ended up buying the barrels and refurbing the C1's. ( When your Sorel barrels are almost shot out, and you have no money....but need an operational gun, you do what you have to !! ). We also rebuilt the L5 Pack howitzer in the same project. The L5 then got binned five years later. Then, we bought the GIAT, which never came close to the Brit Light Gun. Lastly, most of our allies, including the US and Aussies, bought Brit Light Guns.
The Belgians bought the GIAT for their Para Commando Battery, which is their artillery contribution to the AMF(L) Force Arty Regt. They alerted us to the fact that the quadrant elevation, ( that value which you set on your LG1 GIAT range quadrant IAW Fire Orders ), is not true to the axis of the bore ( once the barrel is elevated to the value ordered, you are missing anywhere from 3 to 12 mils. If you apply the value in meters downrange for every missing mil of elevation...." Houston...we have a problem !!" Rather than persue the matter in court, we quietly made the problem go away by compensating for the missing values in the MV program of the ballistic computer. Also, the range quadrant error is not consistent from gun to gun.
Wheter or not we ever did refurb all LG1 elevation mechanisms to sort the problem ( and it was the elevating gear ), I don;t know.
Anyway, two cents and a war story for historical perspective.....
Ubique
Curious thing about the GIAT LG1....it was built for export only. The French Army didn't buy it. Just Canada (29), Belgium (7), and Mayanmar(18).
Doesn't anyone out there read the CF national rag " The Maple Leaf " ? About two monts ago, they showcased the stop-gap measure to respond to the demise of the M109. Yep....the interim plan is to slap the present 105mm C3 ordnance on top of the MLVW. By the time the bugs are worked out ( ie: stability in firing at all angles in a 6400 mil context, stability during travel etc. ), we will have a new MLVW-like vehicle. The Gagetown equipment gurus should be able to shed some light on this. ( I've been out of there nine years now ).
Latest street talk that we Western guys heard was that the M109 is NOT being replaced. Any fire support above regimental level will come from coalition sources. ( As someone mentioned in this thread, and he is 'bang on', it is 105's and mortars for now.) No new artillery systems are on the immediate horizon.
The last thing we need is another GIAT ! The British Light Gun, with its' L119 barrel ( which accomodates M1 series ammo ), won the competition hands down. We ended up buying the barrels and refurbing the C1's. ( When your Sorel barrels are almost shot out, and you have no money....but need an operational gun, you do what you have to !! ). We also rebuilt the L5 Pack howitzer in the same project. The L5 then got binned five years later. Then, we bought the GIAT, which never came close to the Brit Light Gun. Lastly, most of our allies, including the US and Aussies, bought Brit Light Guns.
The Belgians bought the GIAT for their Para Commando Battery, which is their artillery contribution to the AMF(L) Force Arty Regt. They alerted us to the fact that the quadrant elevation, ( that value which you set on your LG1 GIAT range quadrant IAW Fire Orders ), is not true to the axis of the bore ( once the barrel is elevated to the value ordered, you are missing anywhere from 3 to 12 mils. If you apply the value in meters downrange for every missing mil of elevation...." Houston...we have a problem !!" Rather than persue the matter in court, we quietly made the problem go away by compensating for the missing values in the MV program of the ballistic computer. Also, the range quadrant error is not consistent from gun to gun.
Wheter or not we ever did refurb all LG1 elevation mechanisms to sort the problem ( and it was the elevating gear ), I don;t know.
Anyway, two cents and a war story for historical perspective.....
Ubique
Curious thing about the GIAT LG1....it was built for export only. The French Army didn't buy it. Just Canada (29), Belgium (7), and Mayanmar(18).
Mountie
Full Member
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Facing the reality of a medium-weight force, what about a regiment with three close support batteries each with 8 x LAV-III 120mm Armoured Mortar Systems and a general support battery with 4-6 LAV-III Denel 105mm SPHs. Both battaries would have LAV-III support vehicles (ie. command post, Fire Effects Officer/FOO, etc). The AMS has a 10,000m range and the Denel 105mm has a 30,000m range. There are several posts about their capabilities so I won't get into that. A heavy mortar battery is not as good as a 155mm battery but its better thant he 81mm battery that the politicians are forcing upon the Army now.
ArmyRick
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I think alot of us could see it coming for some time now (the M109 been giving the pink slip). The LG1 as I have been told is not the greatest gun (is this another political deal ala Masse?).
The MOBAT concept should be interesting to see once it becomes a reality.
The MOBAT concept should be interesting to see once it becomes a reality.
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If the barrel is able to go down to -80 mills, then the muzzle brake will have to be about 1.5 feet off the roof of the cab. So if the top of the cab from the ML is almost 8 feet tall, this makes the muzzle brake almost 10 feet off the ground. Would you then need an almost 2 or 3 meter deep gun pit? This is going to be one tall gun.
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No, the relation to - and + angle for the barrel is equated to the versitality of the platform. The MOBAT can fire 6400Mils so the idea that it can't drop to -80 mils is mute. The terain will decide as to how the gun/platform will deploy.
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