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References Superthread [Merged]

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aesop081

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Trick said:
Did you apply as an officer?

No, i am a happy NCM.

I think you mentioned somewhere you're a pilot now.

I am not a pilot.


Try not to worry too much about things you have no control over. If the references you have meet the requirements laid out in the instructions, then you are good to go. You cant go out and get a 5-year supervisor reference now can you ? Good luck.
 

Romanmaz

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Trick said:
From what I've heard- yes that will suffice. But if it means anything I've actually decided against using my old HS teacher. I'm now going with a family friend who's known me forever and basically 4 friends/co-workers who know me well, and all over 5 years. I'm a little nervous about not really having any "supervisors" as references, but the nature of being a student makes it hard to have someone like that who's known you well for 5 years. I decided to go with people who know me best. We'll see how it turns out.
I hate to quote myself but this question was answered a couple posts ago = "From my understanding, when I was doing my references, they told me that it doesn't really matter if they're all personal references, as long as you trust them knowing you well enough to answer some fairly basic questions about you, its just a checkmark next to your name in a file at the end of the day. Nothing to stress over. Also never put a girlfriend down as a reference  :facepalm:  "
asm)
(sarcasm)Don't you trust me?  ::) (sarcasm)
 

Snow

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Trick said:
From what I've heard- yes that will suffice. But if it means anything I've actually decided against using my old HS teacher. I'm now going with a family friend who's known me forever and basically 4 friends/co-workers who know me well, and all over 5 years. I'm a little nervous about not really having any "supervisors" as references, but the nature of being a student makes it hard to have someone like that who's known you well for 5 years. I decided to go with people who know me best. We'll see how it turns out.

I'd use employment references if I had them, but unfortunately I haven't known any that long.

The first 5 people I intend to ask are two teachers, a pastor, a family friend and a personal friend.
 
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After getting such a quick response from my last question I got one more you guys.

Here is my basic situation:

I moved to Australia 5 years ago to stay with my Uncle for a year and have only been back in the country for the last 4. Now I need 5 references that have known me for the last 5 years in my application, and while I was away lost contact with allot of people I used to know.

I had a couple friends from college I still kept in contact with and currently work with the wife of one of them who I've also known for the last 6 yrs. So I have no problem coming up with 3 at the moment. The 4th one I've put down was one of my friends brothers who used to party with us in college and I've seen once or twice a year over the last couple years. As for reference material if my recruiter wants to know how well I held my liquor in college he would of been my first choice but I'm hoping he'll be able to provide enough relevant information when they call. The only other person I know who has known me over 5 years ago is my neighbour. I used to work with him at Canadain Tire when I was in High School and since leaving Canadian tire (about 7 years ago) havn't seen him since I moved in next door to him (3 months ago).

I'm hoping that this will be sufficent but if not what would be my situation? Would I have to wait 1-2 years till my current friends or colleages have known me for 5 yrs to re-apply? Should I add additional contacts that have known me for less then 5 years as well as the 5 above?

Thanks
 

Romanmaz

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Recruit_in_Progress said:
After getting such a quick response from my last question I got one more you guys.

Here is my basic situation:

I moved to Australia 5 years ago to stay with my Uncle for a year and have only been back in the country for the last 4. Now I need 5 references that have known me for the last 5 years in my application, and while I was away lost contact with allot of people I used to know.

I had a couple friends from college I still kept in contact with and currently work with the wife of one of them who I've also known for the last 6 yrs. So I have no problem coming up with 3 at the moment. The 4th one I've put down was one of my friends brothers who used to party with us in college and I've seen once or twice a year over the last couple years. As for reference material if my recruiter wants to know how well I held my liquor in college he would of been my first choice but I'm hoping he'll be able to provide enough relevant information when they call. The only other person I know who has known me over 5 years ago is my neighbour. I used to work with him at Canadain Tire when I was in High School and since leaving Canadian tire (about 7 years ago) havn't seen him since I moved in next door to him (3 months ago).

I'm hoping that this will be sufficent but if not what would be my situation? Would I have to wait 1-2 years till my current friends or colleages have known me for 5 yrs to re-apply? Should I add additional contacts that have known me for less then 5 years as well as the 5 above?

Thanks
At the end of the day, references are simply a prerequisite in the application process to get a check-mark next to your name in a case folder. As long as you can find 5 people that will be able to answer some fairly basic questions about you and will say that they have known you for at-least 5 years you're fine. Don't you have any family friends that have known you through your adolescence? You don't want to put down some dude you got drunk with in college. From my experience, they only call the most competent/important references on the form. I had 2 teachers, 2 friends, and a police officer/ former army colonel. You can guess which one they called.
 

Pusser

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Romanmaz said:
At the end of the day, references are simply a prerequisite in the application process to get a check-mark next to your name in a case folder. As long as you can find 5 people that will be able to answer some fairly basic questions about you and will say that they have known you for at-least 5 years you're fine. Don't you have any family friends that have known you through your adolescence? You don't want to put down some dude you got drunk with in college. From my experience, they only call the most competent/important references on the form. I had 2 teachers, 2 friends, and a police officer/ former army colonel. You can guess which one they called.

And your assessment of the CF's background checks and their utility is based on your vast experience with CF security protocols gained where?  The recruiting centre?  It's probably best not to comment on things about which you know little and encouraging a potential applicant to find people willing to lie for him is probably not the best course of action is it?

To the OP:  the provision of references is more than just a tick in the box.  Not only are they looking for people who can comment on your character and your suitability for the program to which you are applying, it can also form the basis of the work required to grant you a security clearance.  The most important thing to do is tell the truth.  If you don't know five people, you don't know five people.  Tell them that.  It is better to leave a line blank (with an explanation) than to lie.  It's even worse if you get someone to lie for you as good investigators will see right through that and you won't come out looking good. The fact that you haven't seen your neighbour for the last few years and have only become reacquainted is not a problem.  He still knows you and has known you in the past.  If he is contacted, the conversation will cover this.  On a final note, make sure you talk to anyone you list as a reference before you submit the form.  A subordinate of mine once put me down as a reference, but didn't tell me first.  When his prospective new employer called me, I gave his a very honest and fair assessment of my subordinate.  He didn't get the job...
 

ballz

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Surely by utilizing the wonders of superpages.ca and facebook, and other modern-day creeping tools, you can get a hold of a professor or sports coach or something?

Apparently I am only 6 degrees of seperation away from anyone in the world. I have been tempted to test this theory using these two tools to contact Emma Watson (Yes, I am a Harry Potter fan) or Sarah Michelle Gellar. You should test whether I am wasting my time by first using these to contact an old sports coach or your favourite professor or something. If you can't, then I will know not to follow through with these endeavours.
 

Romanmaz

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Pusser said:
And your assessment of the CF's background checks and their utility is based on your vast experience with CF security protocols gained where?  The recruiting centre?  It's probably best not to comment on things about which you know little and encouraging a potential applicant to find people willing to lie for him is probably not the best course of action is it?

To the OP:  the provision of references is more than just a tick in the box.  Not only are they looking for people who can comment on your character and your suitability for the program to which you are applying, it can also form the basis of the work required to grant you a security clearance.  The most important thing to do is tell the truth.  If you don't know five people, you don't know five people.  Tell them that.  It is better to leave a line blank (with an explanation) than to lie.  It's even worse if you get someone to lie for you as good investigators will see right through that and you won't come out looking good. The fact that you haven't seen your neighbour for the last few years and have only become reacquainted is not a problem.  He still knows you and has known you in the past.  If he is contacted, the conversation will cover this.  On a final note, make sure you talk to anyone you list as a reference before you submit the form.  A subordinate of mine once put me down as a reference, but didn't tell me first.  When his prospective new employer called me, I gave his a very honest and fair assessment of my subordinate.  He didn't get the job...
If I made it seem that I have vast experience with the CF''s background checks and security protocol I'd like to clarify and say that I don't. I'm simply repeating back what I was told when I asked the same question at the recruiting center to an officer who I'm assuming does have vast experience with security protocols and background checks. Maybe I was mistaken, if so, disregard that post.
 
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ballz said:
Surely by utilizing the wonders of superpages.ca and facebook, and other modern-day creeping tools, you can get a hold of a professor or sports coach or something?

I actually don't have facebook (I know I know), but this has been the first time I wish I had. Tried getting a hold of my previous cadet squadron I was in but I honestly havn't seen any of them in years either. I got 5 that on paper I'll explain my situation to the recruiter when I pass my app in, just I know a dozen other people that know me better then my last 2 refs but have only known me for the last 3 years or so.


On a side note, I was expecting to have it in by now. Stopped by the CFRC with everything but my High School Transcript hopping to get the ball rolling while I wait for my High school to mail it to me but no dice. But I geuss I should start getting used to the waiting now from what I've been reading on here theres allot more waiting to come.

Seeing post like this though:

Mudshuvel said:
There were only 19 spots left for 2011 Fiscal Year for ATIS Tech. Most if not all were filled in last selection (June 15th).

Confirmed by CF Recruiting.

Has me worried as I'm applying to the NCM-SEP for ATIS
 

Nauticus

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Romanmaz said:
If I made it seem that I have vast experience with the CF''s background checks and security protocol I'd like to clarify and say that I don't. I'm simply repeating back what I was told when I asked the same question at the recruiting center to an officer who I'm assuming does have vast experience with security protocols and background checks. Maybe I was mistaken, if so, disregard that post.
Just for clarification, you're alleging that a CF recruiter suggested to you that you should get people to lie on your application to the Canadian Forces?
 

maltyy

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So wait wait wait...you're saying I can use references that have known me since I was 16, instead of people I've known for 5 years? I'm 17 right now, and the most time that a possible reference has known me for is probably 3 years. Is that okay? Also, my uncle is a past employer, can i still not use him?
 

jasonf6

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maltyy said:
So wait wait wait...you're saying I can use references that have known me since I was 16, instead of people I've known for 5 years? I'm 17 right now, and the most time that a possible reference has known me for is probably 3 years. Is that okay? Also, my uncle is a past employer, can i still not use him?
The way I understood the family aspect of it is that you can't use immediate family (ie, mother, father, brother and sister).  Uncle's should be okay unless they were your guardian in lieu of a mother/father figure. 

As to the age 16 think, isn't that the earliest possible age you can apply at (with consent)?  It may be that they say up to 16 because of this fact and the years immediately prior to that is when you start to develop a sense of what you want to do and start showing your maturity?  I dunno, I'm not a psychologist or anything. :)
 

PMedMoe

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maltyy said:
So wait wait wait...you're saying I can use references that have known me since I was 16, instead of people I've known for 5 years? I'm 17 right now, and the most time that a possible reference has known me for is probably 3 years. Is that okay? Also, my uncle is a past employer, can i still not use him?

Right from the Forces website:

PERSONAL AND EMPLOYMENT REFERENCE CHECKS

You must provide five references from people who are not relatives. These people must have known you for the last five years (or since you were 16, whichever comes first).
 

maltyy

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So are the references just called by the recruiter and have to talk to them, or do the references have to write a letter or something? Would that help or is it not necessary?
 

jasonf6

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maltyy said:
So are the references just called by the recruiter and have to talk to them, or do the references have to write a letter or something? Would that help or is it not necessary?
The process I just went through, file heading to Borden now, had the recruiter calling mine.  I wasn't required to bring a letter from any of them.
 

shooked1

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How important are your reference's in the grand scheme of the recruiting process? I know a lot of people, but most of the people I would put down on the reference I have not know long enough.
 
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aesop081

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maltyy said:
Would that help or is it not necessary?

Fill out the form and hand it in. Thats what you are told to do. Simply follow direction.
 

AviatorHB

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Hello, I went to the CFRC and they gave me forms. The references sheet was given to me and the recruiter told me I only needed 3 references. I asked him "I thought it was 5?" and he said " no 3" On the sheet, there are only 3 areas to be filled for reference 1,2 and 3.

Why do I only need 3 references while the website claims 5?
Also I find this whole recruitment process a mess...
 
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