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Reactivation of 433 and 401 Fighter Squadrons (a split & merged thread)

Mick

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From the RCAF website:

433 TFS has been reactivated at 3 Wing Bagotville.  No mention of 409 TFS or whether it will remain in Cold Lake in addition to a newly reactivated sqn, or if 441/416 will return.

Also, 415 LRP Sqn is back, with a new 'Force Development' designation, whatever that means.

I apologize for not providing links to the articles - the RCAF page isn't loading at the moment...
 

quadrapiper

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mick said:
Also, 415 LRP Sqn is back, with a new 'Force Development' designation, whatever that means.
Guessing wildly: either some sort of training squadron, or a unit focused on supporting overseas operations e.g. sending Aurora(s) to Iraq, rather than drawing on the coastal squadrons.
 

Mick

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Not much info  given in the website articles:

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/article-template-standard.page?doc=433-tactical-fighter-squadron-reborn/iaiipfjj

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/article-template-standard.page?doc=history-of-415-long-range-patrol-force-development-squadron/iaiipk0o
 

Crimmsy

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mick said:
Also, 415 LRP Sqn is back, with a new 'Force Development' designation, whatever that means.

Amalgamation of 14 Software Engineering Squadron and Maritime Proving & Evaluation Unit; two 14 Wg units.
 

dimsum

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quadrapiper said:
Guessing wildly: either some sort of training squadron, or a unit focused on supporting overseas operations e.g. sending Aurora(s) to Iraq, rather than drawing on the coastal squadrons.

415 LRP Force Development Sqn is the amalgamation of 14 Software and Engineering Squadron (14 SES) and Maritime Proving Evaluation Unit (MPEU).

http://www.kingscountynews.ca/News/Local/2015-06-10/article-4174746/415-Squadron-re-established-at-14-Wing-Greenwood-following-a-decade’s-absence/1
 

Mick

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Thanks for the info ref 415 LRP.  At first glance, amalgamating MPEU and 14 SES seems to make good sense.

Will be interesting to see what happens in Cold Lake.  Looks like all the mergers / deactivations from 2005/2006 are now undone.
 

captloadie

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Check back on the 30th of June and you'll have your answer to what is happening in Cold Lake.
 

dimsum

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What's the reasoning behind the reformation of 433 and possible reformations of the sqns in Cold Lake?  If we didn't get any new fighters, what's the point of splitting the fleet?
 

SupersonicMax

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Right now, we never have all of the Sqn pers at the squadron, at the same time.  Half of people are deployed, holding QRA, on exercise, etc.  this will enable Squadrons to deploy as an entity (exercises and ops).  Much easier to manage than pulling people from everywhere like we are doing now...
 

Good2Golf

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Dimsum said:
What's the reasoning behind the reformation of 433 and possible reformations of the sqns in Cold Lake?  If we didn't get any new fighters, what's the point of splitting the fleet?


To substantiate two more line LCols in the fighter force.
 

dimsum

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SupersonicMax said:

Right now, we never have all of the Sqn pers at the squadron, at the same time.  Half of people are deployed, holding QRA, on exercise, etc.
this will enable Squadrons to deploy as an entity (exercises and ops).  Much easier to manage than pulling people from everywhere like we are doing now...

....so, just like LRP sqns and especially MH sqns? 
 

Fishbone Jones

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SupersonicMax said:
Right now, we never have all of the Sqn pers at the squadron, at the same time.  Half of people are deployed, holding QRA, on exercise, etc.  this will enable Squadrons to deploy as an entity (exercises and ops).  Much easier to manage than pulling people from everywhere like we are doing now...

Depends. Are you talking just pilots, as you're want too, or all your techs also?

I often saw lots of our pilots\navs deployed, but none of the techs.

Especially if it was a jammy go. Saw lots of golf clubs, etc. loaded by us into belly panels and weapons bays, but none of us went.
 

SupersonicMax

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Both, tech and pilots.  I have yet to see an exercise where techs don't come with us.  Depending on training requirements, we may cycle pilots through but generally, those dets are not relax and other one day a week (generally Saturdays because there is no flying on Sunday), pilots will either fly that day (making it a 12-14 hour day) or plan for the next day (making it an 8-12 hour day, depending on what you are doing).

Techs generally have a 24 on/24 off sched which in reality is a 12 on/36 off.  I would trade that in a heartbeat if it was only for the schedule.
 

SupersonicMax

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Those positions already existed, just in other establishments.  Nice try though.
 

armyvern

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SupersonicMax said:
Those positions already existed, just in other establishments.  Nice try though.

And, now they are with "the fighter force" n'est pas (exactly as the quote states)?  ;)

Perhaps the incoming rotor-head will move 'em back from where they came.

"Leading Change" = Score!!
 

Good2Golf

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SupersonicMax said:
Those positions already existed, just in other establishments.  Nice try though.

Ah...I'll defer to your obvious expertise in Departmental establishment change requests, CF Organizational Orders and Ministerial Organizational Orders, then.
 

Harrigan

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To be fair to the Fighter Force, their aircraft to Unit ratio is higher than other arms of the Air Force, (with Sqns defined as LCol-led Units - I am not counting the CSS Sqns just to keep the numbers relative):

Fighters - 77 a/c - 3 Sqns (409, 410, 425) = 25.7 per Sqn
Tac Avn - 72 a/c - 7 Sqns (400, 403, 408, 427, 430, 438, 450) = 10.3 per Sqn
MH - 28 a/c - 3 Sqns (406, 423, 443) = 9.3 per Sqn
LRP - 18 a/c - 3 (now 4) Sqns (404, 405, 407, 415) = 4.5 per Sqn
AM - 37 a/c - 6 Sqns (412, 426, 429, 436, 437, 440) = 6.2 per Sqn
SAR/AAR - 33 a/c - 5 Sqns (103, 413, 424, 435, 442) = 6.6 per Sqn
EW - 0 a/c - 1 Sqn (414) = 0 per Sqn  >:D

With 5 Fighter Sqns (assuming Cold Lake goes from 2 to 3), that would be 15.4 per Sqn, which is still the highest ratio in the RCAF.

If the rumours I am hearing are accurate, 30 June should be an interesting announcement! 

Harrigan
 

Sf2

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Harrigan said:
To be fair to the Fighter Force, their aircraft to Unit ratio is higher than other arms of the Air Force, (with Sqns defined as LCol-led Units - I am not counting the CSS Sqns just to keep the numbers relative):


Tac Avn - 72 a/c - 7 Sqns (400, 403, 408, 427, 430, 438, 450) = 10.3 per Sqn


With 5 Fighter Sqns (assuming Cold Lake goes from 2 to 3), that would be 15.4 per Sqn, which is still the highest ratio in the RCAF.

If the rumours I am hearing are accurate, 30 June should be an interesting announcement! 

Harrigan

What you fail to take into account is that 400 Sqn is now a maintanence sqn.  They don't have a full complement of aircraft.  438 in a similar boat being a reserve sqn has a fraction of aircraft strength compared to the operational units 430, 408, and 427 - all of which have 15 or so aircraft.

The other obvious point you fail to mention is 450, which has their own fleet of 15 that isn't divisible among the other tac hel units.
 
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