"Re-Royalization", "Re-Britification" and the Heritage Transformation

[Nfld Sapper]

Snakedoc...

Thou shalt not post a link to that reporter on this site....

MILNET.CA MENTOR

 

[George Wallace]

Snakedoc...

Thou shalt not post a link to that reporter on this site....

MILNET.CA MENTOR

As for the question of the thick braid; look at the photos of the CDS that were provided a few posts earlier.


http://army.ca/forums/threads/16520/post-1427426.html#msg1427426

 

[Snakedoc]

Snakedoc...

Thou shalt not post a link to that reporter on this site....

MILNET.CA MENTOR

Oh my apologies, didn't realize.. my mistake!

As for the question of the thick braid; look at the photos of the CDS that were provided a few posts earlier.


http://army.ca/forums/threads/16520/post-1427426.html#msg1427426

My question was more directed at whether the braids were returning for junior and senior officers of the CA as well since the quote from the article didn't seem to make it specific to only general officers?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Oh my apologies, didn't realize.. my mistake!

No worries 

 

[Pusser]

My question was more directed at whether the braids were returning for junior and senior officers of the CA as well since the quote from the article didn't seem to make it specific to only general officers?

My gut feel is that the answer is, no, only general officers will have the braid.  HOWEVER, braid for all would not be unprecedented.  Up to at least WWI, Army officers wore pips, crowns AND braid (the braid went around the cuff and the pips and crowns were on a cuff flap)...

 

[Loachman]

Were in not for that, nobody would have been able to ascertain their rank while the they were on horseback.

Perhaps the CF should just go to reprogrammable LED rank displays. People could be promoted via a few mouse clicks, flavour-of-the month/day/hour/minute insignia changes could be done the same way, and brightness and colour changes could be made according to lighting conditions and to distinguish between field and garrison environments. Integral transponders could also cause the higher of two rank badges within a specified distance to flash, and the lower to vibrate discreetly, so that the lower rank would be prompted to salute as a back-up.

As for suggestions to replace Order of the Bath pips with Order of Canada ones, no thanks. The Order of the Bath is/was a military order. The Order of Canada never was, and people get inducted for all sorts of reasons that are beneath consideration for military purposes.

Replacing the Order of the Bath pips because of religious connotations is ridiculous, if that is an excuse being given. Will we replace the red cross on our ambulances and first aid kits for such a stupid reason? What about medals? The Victoria What?

When will this madness end?

Is there no superhero who can save us?

Why are stupid ideas invariably favoured over good ones?

 

[Pencil Tech]

Ya I saw Gen Vance today on Power Play with the maple leafs on his Service Dress, and the old GO gold braid, guess we couldn't have less bling than the RCAF :-/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=841082

Wow he looked pretty blinged out.  :facepalm: I'm sorry, with all due respect, etc., that looks like crap.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Is there no superhero who can save us?

Why are stupid ideas invariably favoured over good ones?

Because... Waterloo: http://mashable.com/2014/10/27/napoleonic-wars-veterans/#_n01ZvlSakqa

 

[Canuck_Jock]

Were in not for that, nobody would have been able to ascertain their rank while the they were on horseback.

Perhaps the CF should just go to reprogrammable LED rank displays. People could be promoted via a few mouse clicks, flavour-of-the month/day/hour/minute insignia changes could be done the same way, and brightness and colour changes could be made according to lighting conditions and to distinguish between field and garrison environments. Integral transponders could also cause the higher of two rank badges within a specified distance to flash, and the lower to vibrate discreetly, so that the lower rank would be prompted to salute as a back-up.

As for suggestions to replace Order of the Bath pips with Order of Canada ones, no thanks. The Order of the Bath is/was a military order. The Order of Canada never was, and people get inducted for all sorts of reasons that are beneath consideration for military purposes.

Replacing the Order of the Bath pips because of religious connotations is ridiculous, if that is an excuse being given. Will we replace the red cross on our ambulances and first aid kits for such a stupid reason? What about medals? The Victoria What?

When will this madness end?

Is there no superhero who can save us?

Why are stupid ideas invariably favoured over good ones?

Well it was worth throwing the Order of Canada idea out there as a straw man. I know that the Order of the Bath is a military order and I agree it makes sense. Wait a minute, what about, OMM mounted on 4 pointed star as a pip? Personally, I am happy with the current system. But am thinking of ways to depoliticise the issue.

On another related topic, shouldn't we 'grow up' 'mature as an independent country' (to borrow the neo-nationalist tripe) and stop using 'British-style' pronunciation of lef-tenant?
I know it's American, but we could rebrand loooooo-tenant as being 'Canadian'?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

On another related topic, shouldn't we 'grow up' 'mature as an independent country' (to borrow the neo-nationalist tripe) and stop using 'British-style' pronunciation of lef-tenant?
I know it's American, but we could rebrand loooooo-tenant as being 'Canadian'?

How about we don't try to fix what isn't broken and show how mature and independant we are by maintaining international commitments and no longer polarizing defense after every election.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Here's the Info-machine's explanation (news release also attached if link doesn't work) - highlights mine ...

Lieutenant-General Marquis Hainse, Commander of the Canadian Army, and Chief Warrant Officer Alain Guimond, Canadian Army Sergeant Major, announced changes to the General Officer Rank Insignia.

The Canadian Army is building on the momentum of the evolution of its insignia to change its General Officer insignia. This will include maple leaves in recognition of our Canadian identity, while still respecting our military heritage. The General Officers, our most senior officer ranks, will continue to wear the gorget patches, an important symbol of the Canadian Army’s historical identity.

The transition will bring the Canadian Army General Officers shoulder rank insignia into harmony with the shoulder rank insignia of the Flag Officers of the Royal Canadian Navy and Royal Canadian Air Force and lessen the chance of confusion for Canadians and our international allies.

Quotes

    “I am pleased and proud to be the first Canadian Army General Officer to wear the maple leaf insignia. The adoption of the maple leaf rank insignia aligns Army Generals with the rest of the Canadian Armed Forces.”

    General Jonathan Vance, Chief of the Defence Staff.

    “We are proud to announce this change as the evolution of the historical identity of the Canadian Army reinforces the link between today’s soldiers, the Cold War veterans of the unification period and previous generations of brave war heroes from the First and Second World Wars.”

    Lieutenant-General Marquis Hainse, Commander of the Canadian Army.

    “It is with pride, as the senior soldier of the Canadian Army, and representative of Canada’s soldiers, to associate the Canadian symbol of the maple leaf to the most senior ranks of the Canadian Army.”

    Chief Warrant Officer Alain Guimond, Canadian Army Sergeant Major.

Quick Facts

    This transition is part of the evolution of our Canadian Army ranks which will amplify the symbology of the maple leaf in anticipation of the key anniversaries of Vimy Ridge and Canada’s 150th birthday in 2017.
    This rank insignia change will only affect the most senior Canadian Army leaders, currently numbered at 56.
    The move to a metal pin-on rank insignia on the shoulders of our General Officers eliminates the expense of embroidering the ranks on replacement shoulder straps, creating cost savings ...

Also, here's a link to the brand new poster (PDF) of everybody's rank (also here @ Dropbox.com if previous link doesn't work)

Re:  that bit in orange, wherever have we heard that before?

 

[Loachman]

On another related topic, shouldn't we 'grow up' 'mature as an independent country' (to borrow the neo-nationalist tripe) and stop using 'British-style' pronunciation of lef-tenant?
I know it's American, but we could rebrand loooooo-tenant as being 'Canadian'?

So ... show our independence from Britain and our dependence upon the US?

Why not just stop stupid, wasteful, destabilizing dicking around with what we had/have?

 

[Snakedoc]

Here's the Info-machine's explanation (news release also attached if link doesn't work) - highlights mine ...Also, here's a link to the brand new poster (PDF) of everybody's rank (also here @ Dropbox.com if previous link doesn't work)

Re:  that bit in orange, wherever have we heard that before?

Thanks for the pdf, that answers my question about junior and senior officer ranks which appear to be staying the same (darn.. I do have to memorize the 'new' army rank insignias after all!)

The marketing spin put on all this would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.. especially since they're just announcing what was already in place a few years ago and making it seem like a new, proud, all Canadian initiative.

 

[Kirkhill]

Or, Loachman, we could go whole hog and render all of these foreign names back into common English.

To wit: 

Lieutenant becomes "Place Holder"
2nd Lieutenant becomes "Assistant Place Holder"

In the same vein

Captain becomes "Head"
Sergeant becomes "Servant"
Sergeant Major becomes "Senior Servant"

Colonel becomes "Head of the Column"
Lieutenant Colonel becomes "Head of the Column's Place Holder"

The General Ranks then become "General Head" to replace the original Captain-General.
The other General Ranks would be:

"The General Head's Place Holder" (Lieutenant-General)
"The General Head's Senior Servant" (Major-General)
"Head of the Formation" (Brigadier).

And everything is reduced to modern English. Clarity ensues.

Oops! Forgot one.  Corporal becomes Body - as in the body of troops. - Canadianized to Buddy.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Leave it to a Scot to sow confusion amongst the English.  >

 

[Kirkhill]

It's getting easier all the time.  [

 

[Fishbone Jones]

reinforces the link between today’s soldiers, the Cold War veterans of the unification period and previous generations of brave war heroes from the First and Second World Wars.”

What a load of bullshit bafflegab that was. :facepalm:

 

[jollyjacktar]

It's getting easier all the time.  [

And no less satisfying, I'm sure.    :nod:

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Oops! Forgot one.  Corporal becomes Body - as in the body of troops. - Canadianized to Buddy.

;D

 

[Canuck_Jock]

So ... show our independence from Britain and our dependence upon the US?

Why not just stop stupid, wasteful, destabilizing dicking around with what we had/have?

Sorry, my roundabout way of saying, let's not cut off our (British traditions) nose to spite our (Canadian nationalist) face. The Services traditions, all things considered, seem to have reached a decent balance between unification/preunification, etc.

Military procurement, defence & security policy....now those are a shambles and are the real issues...