• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

RCMP Info, discussion

Container

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
The problem is best candidate is not the same as qualified. It supposed to be a competitive process.

Now the "designated groups" compete with themselves instead of overall. Which means lower quality. Which is something we can not handle any more of in this organization. "Mediocre" has overrun this force.

That is the truth.
 

George Wallace

Army.ca Dinosaur
Reaction score
4
Points
410
Container said:
The problem is best candidate is not the same as qualified. It supposed to be a competitive process.

Now the "designated groups" compete with themselves instead of overall. Which means lower quality.

That is the truth.

That is one of my biggest fears.

Are we going to see a drop in "Standards" at Depot in order to meet these "Quotas"?  How will this reflect on the calibre of  graduates from Depot? 

The RCMP have seen their image tarnished in recent years with scandals at the top, as well as government interference.  Lowering the calibre of their personnel graduating from Depot is not likely to help matters.
 

Greymatters

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Whats going to happen is the same as in other places - persons who shouldnt pass because they dont meet standards are going to get 'passed' in order to meet quotas.
 

Container

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
George.

I dont know if you've ever spoken to a mountie whos taught at Depot but they will tell you that it is almost impossible to have someone removed from the program. And once in the field it can take years to fire someone (if you can).

There is no filter after recruiting and it scares the crud out of me to hear that someone thinks we can afford to take anyone but the best candidate. Especially when we are where we are in our organization.

So you will hear lots of talk about how the "standards" haven't been reduced. But when the "standards" are a grade twelve education and a passing score, and a background check that is less involved now than even five years ago, that doesnt mean much. But black, white, or otherwise the amount of mounties needed has created a plethora of basic requirement mounties of every shade. The biggest danger is the lack of organizational knowledge we have- the mass exodus of experience has made it an organization of 2 year mounties asking 4 year mounties what to do. It is impossible to develop competent police officers in this environment. I fully expect it to get worse (!!) before it gets better.

Oh the stories I have.....
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
378
Points
1,130
Container said:
But when the "standards" are a grade twelve education and a passing score, and a background check that is less involved now than even five years ago, that doesnt mean much.

Or a "Good Enough Diploma" GED:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting-recrutement/selection/requirements-exigences-eng.htm
"If you did not complete secondary school, you must obtain an equivalency assessment."

I have a copy of a 1974 Metro Emergency Services recruiting ad: "Qualified applicants will be at least 5'8" in height, with weight of 160 lbs., possess a Grade 12 diploma and be physically fit." Height and weight was not  negotiable. Neither was the Grade 12 diploma.
My guess is that the RCMP used to have a similar height and weight requirement: "Before the 1970s, the RCMP hired only men of a certain height and weight. Often, a "good" candidate weighed over 200 pounds (91 kg) pounds and stood at or above 6 feet (180 cm).":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCMP_recruiting#Physical_attributes

Of course, the human rights people condemned it, and eventually had it removed.:
http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/resources/Policies/PolicyHtWt?page=he-Introduc.html
Edit to add:
But, it was a matter of public safety that rescuers be able to "carry their weight". I believe that now, as much as the department did back then. It reached a point where some crews had to call so often for a second ambulance ( which often was not available ) to help lift, restrain, extricate or rescue patients, that they eventually started sending the TFD/TFS to avoid being sued by the families for the delay in transport. Lives that might be saved could be lost because of a delay.

The debate continues this year in New York City:
"Sorry ladies, but I want a fireman" ( The "man" is in italics. )
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/sorry_ladies_but_want_fireman_YqszteeZBBTmJSTcUizSiK
"You can't choose the one who will rescue you. You can weaken the pool. And that is something this city can't afford in the name of "diversity." "

This story is from less than two weeks ago: "in Ontario, an officer's size, skill and level of training help justify how they choose to handle threats":
Regarding use of force, I would interpret that to mean that a smaller sized officer might choose to justify handling a physical threat differently than a larger sized one?

From the U.S.: "On March 11, 2005, Brian Nichols, 33, was being escorted by a 51 year old female sheriff's deputy to his rape trial inside an Atlanta Courthouse.  Nichols disarmed and seriously injured the deputy, who was half his size, before entering the courtroom and shooting the judge and court reporter to death with the deputy's gun.  He would murder another sheriff's deputy on his escape from the courthouse as well as an off duty federal agent, at the agent's home, as he eluded capture."
"If the deputy had been equal in size and strength, one must wonder if Nichols would have delayed his plan; until, a target of more certainty presented itself."




 

George Wallace

Army.ca Dinosaur
Reaction score
4
Points
410
I was in to see a RCMP Recruiter in 1976 while in university.  He recommended I not apply until the next year when I had a Degree.  This is quite a difference from what I am seeing/hearing now.
 

stukirkpatrick

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I have a relative that applied to the RCMP just a few years after 76 with just a diploma and he's doing quite well for himself.  Clearly the pendulum keeps swinging to both ends of the spectrum.

I applied after I graduated and felt that the university degree was still "preferred" during the lengthy application process, if not still necessarily required.  Still, there's a lot that can be said for individual life experiences that may not necessarily involve a formal education. 

That said, I think that one of the biggest required skills (regardless of where it was learned) for the justice and legal systems is the ability to be flexible and open-minded to new ideas.  What worked legally a couple years ago may not necessarily work again, dependent on new case law setting precedence.
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
378
Points
1,130
Container said:
George.
I dont know if you've ever spoken to a mountie whos taught at Depot but they will tell you that it is almost impossible to have someone removed from the program. And once in the field it can take years to fire someone (if you can).

2010
"Expelled RCMP cadet wins his old job back":
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/somethings-wrong-with-this-rights-case/article1374849/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/expelled-rcmp-cadet-wins-his-old-job-back/article1646897/

"Last year, in a high-profile decision, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal declared victory for the would-be Mountie. It ordered the RCMP to give him another shot and to pay him at least half a million dollars – an amount that was meant to cover several years of back pay, plus promotions."

 

canada94

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
My dad graduated high school with a 65% average did nothing for a year then applied, got excepted and became a mountie; I don't think any standards have been dropped but escalated as my dad puts it "they (the RCMP heads of office) are to busy filling spots with scholars who in the end can't police". If I where to apply for the RCMP next year after I graduate I can almost 100% guarantee I would be turned away. My dad who is friends with the local detachment's recruiter tells us that they are gearing towards minorities and women. 

Mike
 

PMedMoe

Army.ca Legend
Donor
Reaction score
436
Points
880
zipperhead_cop said:
Repugnant. 

I have no other words  :rage:

I completely agree.  So now we have a precedent set to enroll and keep less than competent people, based solely on their race.  :mad:
 

George Wallace

Army.ca Dinosaur
Reaction score
4
Points
410
PMedMoe said:
.......  So now we have a precedent set to enroll and keep less than competent people, based solely on their race.  :mad:

I think that precedence was set across all Departments of government back in the 1980's by the Liberal regime under Trudeau.
 

Container

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
canada94 said:
My dad graduated high school with a 65% average did nothing for a year then applied, got excepted and became a mountie; I don't think any standards have been dropped but escalated as my dad puts it "they (the RCMP heads of office) are to busy filling spots with scholars who in the end can't police". If I where to apply for the RCMP next year after I graduate I can almost 100% guarantee I would be turned away. My dad who is friends with the local detachment's recruiter tells us that they are gearing towards minorities and women. 
Mike

Lets not go crazy. Depot recruit classes are still predominately white guys. Even with the new policy there are...other...stumbling blocks for these programs. Such as a lack of interest on other groups parts. Recruit classes will be really small or they will have to plug the classes up with us white guys they hate so much. If I had to guess- there will be a massive influx of francophone/ white police officers. They seem to be like an easy catch for the RCMP as well.

It hasn't been the way it was for your fathers recruitment in 25 five years.

And when your dad joined there were other requirements and depot was a different place. I have the recruiting pamphlets in my office from that time. Height, weight, chest size etc

They tried this targeted recruting years ago-it failed. That guy retired. We put a new officer in his place and he wants to try again. It will also fail.

But of course getting a cross section of different cultures realy matters when you are policing mosquito lake saskatchewan. It really matters what language you speak  ::)
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
378
Points
1,130
canada94 said:
If I where to apply for the RCMP next year after I graduate I can almost 100% guarantee I would be turned away. My dad who is friends with the local detachment's recruiter tells us that they are gearing towards minorities and women. 

The department I used to work for awarded five hiring points for legacy. That was written corporate policy back then. There are generations of families on the job. The police and fire departments are also multi-generational. It is apparent at every graduation parade. Perhaps the RCMP is similar? Times have changed, and legacy points are no longer ( officially ) awarded, but, even now, it can't hurt to have family inside any organization you are interested in joining put in a good word for you with the right people. Or, at least let it ( casually ) be known during the application / interview process that you have family on the job. "Why are you interested in joining us?" "I want to Serve and Protect, and my father always had good things to say about the force."
I think legacy was common practice in many organizations, and to a degree, still is.

This from Princeton University 1958:
“The Princeton son does not have to compete against non-Princeton sons,” the Alumni Council assured. “No matter how many other boys apply, the Princeton son is judged from an academic standpoint solely on this one question: Can he be expected to graduate? If so, he’s admitted. If not, he’s not admitted. It’s as simple as that.”

The story went on to say, "Legacies were accepted at twice the rate of non-legacies in the days of the pamphlet. But today ( 2010 ), legacies are accepted at roughly four times the rate of non-legacies."


Container said:
And once in the field it can take years to fire someone (if you can).

September 17, 2010
"RCMP discipline process can drag on for years, documents show: OTTAWA - The longest wait, right now, is six years.":
http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=3542034





 

zipperhead_cop

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
0
canada94 said:
My dad graduated high school with a 65% average did nothing for a year then applied, got excepted and became a mountie; I don't think any standards have been dropped but escalated as my dad puts it "they (the RCMP heads of office) are to busy filling spots with scholars who in the end can't police". If I where to apply for the RCMP next year after I graduate I can almost 100% guarantee I would be turned away. My dad who is friends with the local detachment's recruiter tells us that they are gearing towards minorities and women. 

Mike

I'm betting it would be your grammar not your skin colour that would get you shut down.  But by all means, quit before ever trying. 
 

canada94

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
zipperhead_cop said:
I'm betting it would be your grammar not your skin colour that would get you shut down.  But by all means, quit before ever trying.

"Accepted" haha you caught me!

And I'm not quitting.. I'm simply waiting there is more chance in the forces then the RCMP as of now.

Mike
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
378
Points
1,130
Thu Jul 07 2011
"RCMP recruit training slashed as Ottawa grapples with budget squeeze":
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1021452--rcmp-recruit-training-slashed-as-ottawa-grapples-with-budget-squeeze
 

canada94

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
mariomike said:
Thu Jul 07 2011
"RCMP recruit training slashed as Ottawa grapples with budget squeeze":
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1021452--rcmp-recruit-training-slashed-as-ottawa-grapples-with-budget-squeeze

Meanwhile we have a staff of 72, 000 (wiki could be wrong of course) obsolete postal workers.. but lets cut policing.

Stupid IMHO.

- Mike
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
378
Points
1,130
If interested, check out this RCMP recruiting brochure from "back in the day":
http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/Sleepless_In_E/?action=view&current=rcmp1969side1.jpg
http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/Sleepless_In_E/?action=view&current=rcmp1969side2.jpg
 

canada94

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
mariomike said:
If interested, check out this RCMP recruiting brochure from "back in the day":
http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/Sleepless_In_E/?action=view&current=rcmp1969side1.jpg
http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/Sleepless_In_E/?action=view&current=rcmp1969side2.jpg

I will have to say that is pretty freaking cool!

Vintage!
 
Top