Questions Regarding Becoming Female Officer

[cbillin]

Hello all,

I've read through multiple forums and haven't been able to find the exact answers i'm looking for. First off, i'm considering entering the military as an officer (a female officer at that). I'm particularly drawn to the infantry, so an infantry officer is looking like my best bet. Has anyone ever had/encountered a female infantry officer? I'm worried about how a group of mostly males would feel about being led by a woman. I know I could do it, i'm just curious to know the thoughts/feelings surrounding the idea.

ALSO, I'm also considering the NCM route first. I've talked to a few officers who said they wished they went NCM first because you form better relationships. As an officer, you can't really 'hang out' with your NCM's that you're managing. The military has an allure to me because of the strong bonds and friendships that are garnered. So from that aspect, the NCM route seems more appealing. Does anyone have any words of advice or thoughts on this?

I apologize if there's a similar thread out there.

Thanks everyone!

 

[dangerboy]

I can only speak for myself but I have worked with both male and female officers and the only difference is if I say Sir or Ma'am. I only care about can they do their job.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

cbillin, google up "Captain Nichola Goddard".

Female infantry officers exist in the CF and are properly respected and followed by the troops, so long as they are deserving of such respect to the same extent as their male counterparts.

Good luck.

 

[Brasidas]

Hello all,

I've read through multiple forums and haven't been able to find the exact answers i'm looking for. First off, i'm considering entering the military as an officer (a female officer at that). I'm particularly drawn to the infantry, so an infantry officer is looking like my best bet. Has anyone ever had/encountered a female infantry officer? I'm worried about how a group of mostly males would feel about being led by a woman. I know I could do it, i'm just curious to know the thoughts/feelings surrounding the idea.

ALSO, I'm also considering the NCM route first. I've talked to a few officers who said they wished they went NCM first because you form better relationships. As an officer, you can't really 'hang out' with your NCM's that you're managing. The military has an allure to me because of the strong bonds and friendships that are garnered. So from that aspect, the NCM route seems more appealing. Does anyone have any words of advice or thoughts on this?

I apologize if there's a similar thread out there.

Thanks everyone!

Do you want to join the reserve or reg force?

There may not be much in the way of an officer cadre at a reserve unit, if that's a surprise for you and you're looking for peers.

Gender's pretty irrelevant. I've worked with males and females of a variety of backgrounds, as subordinates and leaders. My thoughts and feelings are that competence and integrity dictate how both males and females respond to leadership.

There's nothing wrong with being an NCM first. If what you want out of the military is "strong bonds and friendships", go for it.

 

[Journeyman]

cbillin, google up "Captain Nichola Goddard".

Not to diminish, but for clarity, Capt G wasn't infantry;  she was merely  Artillery.  :stirpot:


Once upon a time (back when the earth was still cooling), our Infantry Battalion had two Rifle Companies in Kosovo; each had a female Platoon commander (and two males). 

One was terrific, occasionally made mistakes (as Lts do), accepted and learned from them; her troops respected her.  Last I heard, she was a LCol, after having commanded a Rifle Coy in Afghanistan.

The other was whiney and self-centred.  Every mistake was countered with, "you're picking on me because I'm a girl"; her troops quite rightly despised her. She got out right after the deployment, and I imagine she's still whining about how the Canadian military should be disbanded for failing to treat her as a goddess.... or something equally stupid.


The key take-away:  it's up to you, your personality, your willingness to learn, adapt, and persevere. Yes, the troops do judge -- that's not limited to female or male leadership; it's up to each of us to be that role model.

Oh, and one benefit of going the NCM route first is, you will eventually rise to leadership positions (leadership is definitely not just an officer thing!), but you will have more time to develop those skills.... more role models to observe, in order to adopt good / avoid bad behaviours.

 

[Pusser]

Capt Ashley Collette was an infantry officer and won the Medal of Military Valour:  http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24622762

And from the GG's website:

Captain Ashley Collette, M.M.V.
Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
Medal of Military Valour
Decoration awarded on November 30, 2011
Rank: Captain

As a platoon commander from May to December 2010, Captain Collette demonstrated front line leadership that was critical to her soldiers’ success during intense combat in Afghanistan. Stationed in volatile Nakhonay, her platoon regularly faced the threat posed by improvised explosive devices, all while repelling numerous attacks on their base. Despite suffering casualties within the group, she kept her soldiers focused and battle-ready; her desire to succeed never wavered. Captain Collette’s fortitude under fire and performance in combat were critical to defeating the enemy and disrupting all insurgent attempts to reoccupy this key village.


On a completely different note, although commendable in many ways, be very careful about deciding to join as an NCM and then becoming an officer later.  This is probably the most difficult route.  For several (and some inexplicable) reasons, it is actually easier for an untested teenager to join the CAF as an officer than for a tested and proven NCM to become one.  A lot of this I think is because that "tested and proven" NCM has a service record that can be examined in detail and can be held against him/her  ;D.  Furthermore, commissioning programs from within the CAF are very competitive and the road to a commission is very much skewed in favour of the external applicant.  All arguments as to the wisdom of this situation aside, it is the reality.

Good luck.

 

[mariomike]

I'm also considering the NCM route first. I've talked to a few officers who said they wished they went NCM first because you form better relationships. As an officer, you can't really 'hang out' with your NCM's that you're managing. The military has an allure to me because of the strong bonds and friendships that are garnered. So from that aspect, the NCM route seems more appealing. Does anyone have any words of advice or thoughts on this?

I apologize if there's a similar thread out there.

Officer/NCM differences 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/171.0
23 pages.

NCM to Officer (UTPNCM) Merged Thread 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/82016.0
22 pages.

Officer or NCM?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/105093.0

Transfer from NCM to Officer 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/123732.0

etc...

 

[cbillin]

Thanks Mariomike for those threads! I'm still trying to figure out how to effectively search this forum, I guess i'm not as tech savvy as I thought I was.

Thank you everyone for the responses! I read Captain Collette's story and it's inspiring. She seemed to form a great bond with her platoon, as anyone would if confined in close quarters I assume.

I've read on other threads that moving up the ranks, officers usually end up behind a desk. Can anyone attest to this? If I go the officer route, I want to be assured I would work alongside soldiers. Do Infantry Officers jump from platoon to platoon?

Any information on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[mariomike]

Thanks Mariomike for those threads!

You are welcome. Good luck. 

I've read on other threads that moving up the ranks, officers usually end up behind a desk. Can anyone attest to this?

Officers…only desk jobs?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113834.0
2 pages.

Friendly Advice for potential Infantry Officer candidates 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/99437.0
5 pages.

Women in the Combat Arms/Infantry/SF/Combat (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/2420.0#
44 pages.

Women in the military, what's it like? Male and Female views appreciated
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122259.0

etc...

 

[brihard]

The process for becoming an officer is the same for females

The process for becoming a female is the same for officers.

 

[George Wallace]

Oppsie!

[

 

[daftandbarmy]

The process for becoming an officer is the same for females

The process for becoming a female is the same for officers.

Win!  [

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hello all,

I've read through multiple forums and haven't been able to find the exact answers i'm looking for. First off, i'm considering entering the military as an officer (a female officer at that). I'm particularly drawn to the infantry, so an infantry officer is looking like my best bet. Has anyone ever had/encountered a female infantry officer? I'm worried about how a group of mostly males would feel about being led by a woman. I know I could do it, i'm just curious to know the thoughts/feelings surrounding the idea.

ALSO, I'm also considering the NCM route first. I've talked to a few officers who said they wished they went NCM first because you form better relationships. As an officer, you can't really 'hang out' with your NCM's that you're managing. The military has an allure to me because of the strong bonds and friendships that are garnered. So from that aspect, the NCM route seems more appealing. Does anyone have any words of advice or thoughts on this?

I apologize if there's a similar thread out there.

Thanks everyone!

The female Officers I have seen in the Infantry have been good. If you can get through Phase II and III Inf, and the failure rate is pretty steep, you can do just about anything AFAIC.

 

[ballz]

I've read on other threads that moving up the ranks, officers usually end up behind a desk. Can anyone attest to this? If I go the officer route, I want to be assured I would work alongside soldiers. Do Infantry Officers jump from platoon to platoon?

Yes, the higher you move up, the more time you spend away from your soldiers and more time in an office. Your first job as a platoon commander and a few other jobs as a junior officer* are really the only time where you directly lead troops.... if you are lucky you will get a longer go (2 years) as a platoon commander, or spend time as the Recce Platoon Commander or something where you will also directly lead troops. However, after that, your next command roles are as a Major as an OC where your direct subordinate commanders are the platoon commanders (officers), and then in the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel as a CO where your subordinate commanders are the OCs (Majors). The other jobs that Majors fulfill are generally not directly leading troops.

Your "baseline" job is a platoon commander, and you don't generally jump from platoon to platoon. You get your platoon for 6 months (unusual), between one to two years (the norm), and sometimes (rarely) a bit longer. Sometimes platoon commanders switch platoons but its rare, and it doesn't really extend their time as a platoon commander. Then you "progress" to more senior jobs, and could spend the rest of your career longing to be a platoon commander again.

*For example, I went from Platoon Commander to a LAV Capt. I generally spend a lot of time with HQ personnel and my vehicle crew in the field consists of a Corporal and a Private right now. The Company 2IC in the field has his own vehicle crew with personnel to run the CP. The Bn's Transport Officer has a similar set-up to a rifle platoon, just with a different role. Same deal with Recce Platoon which is also led by a junior officer.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Your first job as a platoon commander and a few other jobs as a junior officer* are really the only time where you directly lead troops

Some might argue a platoon commander trying to directly lead troops would be stepping on NCO toes  ;D

 

[ballz]

Some might argue a platoon commander trying to directly lead troops would be stepping on NCO toes  ;D

I think you know what I mean. Your direct subordinates are actually NCMs, the men and women who do the "doing." You live with them, they see you every day, and you are with them throughout the execution of most tasks. You're the actual face of the officer corps at that level.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I think you know what I mean. Your direct subordinates are actually NCMs, the men and women who do the "doing." You live with them, they see you every day, and you are with them throughout the execution of most tasks. You're the actual face of the officer corps at that level.

And if you suck, you are the 'two faces' of the Officer Corps at that level

This is pretty good advice: https://www.military1.com/all/article/647-dont-be-a-douche-15-rules-to-effectively-lead-a-platoon/

 

[Jarnhamar]

I think you know what I mean. Your direct subordinates are actually NCMs, the men and women who do the "doing." You live with them, they see you every day, and you are with them throughout the execution of most tasks. You're the actual face of the officer corps at that level.

I would still suggest that a platoon commanders direct subordinates are section commanders but I understand what you're saying about face time between troops and officers at that level(and maybe I'm arguing semantics) I actually enjoy having platoon commanders co-located with the platoon as often as possible but the army doesn't seem to like that.

With regard to the OP the context seems like shes talking about having a career where she's assured a close working relationship with platoon members.  As you said in your post platoon commanders don't stay there very long. They're parachuted out of the platoons pretty fast.


Cbillin,
Lots of great advice here for you. 
Just understand that there still are a lot of biased people out there, some keep it to themselves and some don't. When an officer makes a mistake it seems like it's 10 times worse then when an NCM does. When a female in the CAF makes a mistake it seems like it's 20 times worse (people's reactions). 
Female officer in the infantry? I'm going to guess that it's pretty damn cut throat.

Don't get too stuck on a romanticized version of what being an infantry officer will be. You could very well get your first platoon and everyone hates you just because they're dicks like that.

 

[ballz]

I would still suggest that a platoon commanders direct subordinates are section commanders

Yes, they are section commanders, who are NCMs (Sr NCOs are NCMs). Now we are gone down a semantics rabbit hole  ;D

but I understand what you're saying about face time between troops and officers at that level

That's really the point here, regardless of the semantics.

I actually enjoy having platoon commanders co-located with the platoon as often as possible but the army doesn't seem to like that.

A debate in our Battalion that's been ongoing for at least four years now (more likely since dinosaurs walked the earth) since the platoon commanders in my company moved "downstairs," is whether the platoon commanders in garrison should be "upstairs" in the HQ office with the OC / 2IC / LAV Capt / CSM / clerk / etc or should he/she be "downstairs" in the platoon office.

Having done one year "upstairs" and one year "downstairs," I can say for sure that I sit on the downstairs side of argument. And you're right, there does seem to be mostly an adverse opinion towards it.

 

[Edward Campbell]

...
A debate in our Battalion that's been ongoing for at least four years now (more likely since dinosaurs walked the earth) since the platoon commanders in my company moved "downstairs," is whether the platoon commanders in garrison should be "upstairs" in the HQ office with the OC / 2IC / LAV Capt / CSM / clerk / etc or should he/she be "downstairs" in the platoon office.

Having done one year "upstairs" and one year "downstairs," I can say for sure that I sit on the downstairs side of argument. And you're right, there does seem to be mostly an adverse opinion towards it.

It was certainly going on 50 years ago!

In our battalion the prevailing view ~ well, it was the colonel's view so it didn't really matter what anybody else might have thought  :nod: ~ was also on the "downstairs' side. Only a few specialist platoon commanders (Signals, Transport, Maintenance, etc) had real office, rifle platoon commanders and even most support platoon commanders had a 6 foot folding table in the platoon locker area, and they shared that with their platoon sergeants. That was enough, in my experience, and, almost 15 years later, when I was the colonel  :warstory: I also came down on the "downstairs" side and my troop commanders shared space with their WOs in the troop rooms. I expected squadron 2ICs, who had offices, to help the more junior officers with the day-to-day administrivia and to teach the younger officers how to administer soldiers efficiently and effectively, which meant both:

    + Face to face, most of the time; and

    + Quickly and personally.

Things that required a high degree of privacy and would take some time were, as likely as not, going to be handled by the OC or even me, anyway.

I wanted my troop commanders to be focused, mainly, on their soldiers, and on their kit, and on the troop level training and maintenance tasks ... that's best done away from an office.