Question regarding Casual Civillian Dress Allowance

[Hurricane]

I am curious to know if CCDA has truly been abolished, or if the orderly room clerk simply did not want to deal with my question.

I was on course in Texas about a year ago, 5 days long. On this course, civilian clothes was the ordered dress. I received 5 days CCDA.

I am now going on course in North Carolina, 2 days long. Also civilian clothes only, however the clerk has informed me that CCDA no longer exists.

Could someone in the Clerk world shed some light on this for me?

I looked up the CBI, and I believe the instance would relate to Table A of CBI 205.575 Serial 7:

205.575 - CASUAL CIVILIAN DRESS
ASSISTANCE
205.575 - INDEMNITÉ DE TENUE CIVILE
OCCASIONNELLE
205.575(1) (Eligibility) Subject to paragraph (4),
an officer or non-commissioned member of the
Regular Force or Reserve Force who is required
to wear civilian dress for at least 70% of their
normal working hours for a period of less than 365
days is entitled to Casual Civilian Dress
Assistance Allowance (CCDAA) in the amount of
$6.30 for each day when the member performs
duties or service as per Table "A":

Serial 7: "Military service on secondment to another government department, agency or
private sector organization in a civilian setting in which the wearing of uniform
dress is unacceptable to the employing organization."

 

[ballz]

Are you seriously trying to get $12.60 because you are going to be wearing civies for 2 days?

 

[Hurricane]

Are you seriously trying to get $12.60 because you are going to be wearing civies for 2 days?

Its the principle.

 

[medicineman]

Weirdness - never been given a civilian clothing allowance for ANY course I've been on that required me to wear civilian clothes...I was just happy not to have to tote around two separate wardrobes and to be able to relax a bit...but that's just me.

There's an old saying about picking your battles - you might want to think about it.  Clerks have long memories.

MM

 

[Cansky]

Serial 7: "Military service on secondment to another government department, agency or
private sector organization in a civilian setting in which the wearing of uniform
dress is unacceptable to the employing organization."

This is the catch all phrase.  If the organization running the course is willing to put in writing that your wearing of the uniform is unacceptable then you would get the allowance.  I would be surprised if any organization would state this in this day and age. Went thru this with my 6B student who spend the entire 2nd year of the course in civilian settings wearing civilian clothes.  Posed the question and guess what not one organization was against this.  Thus my students wear civilians with no allowance or DEU's their choice.  No has since asked for the allowance.

 

[Hurricane]

So, say an email from the organization stating that the dress is civilian clothes ONLY would suffice?

 

[Cansky]

I would talk to the orderly room first before you send an email out.  Remember that this may have been given out to you in error the previous time and if you push this issue you may have to pay money back.  Careful where one treads.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

So, say an email from the organization stating that the dress is civilian clothes ONLY would suffice?

It would be better if they said that the "wearing of uniform dress is unacceptable" for reason xyz.  Removes any doubt as to the entitlement.  I'm curious why the CF is sending you somewhere that won't permit uniform?

 

[xena]

Clerks have long memories.

Just as much as the Clerks' bosses have long memories too.  Regardless of whether the OP is entitled or not, any clerk that was just too lazy to even try to get a member any sort of benefit, big or small, would've had my size 12 up their backside for a very long time!  And it would fit, provided the requisite amount of force!

If any CF member got short-changed, it was professional.  If it was a member of my unit, it was personal.  I truly hope their are clerks out there who still take pride in what they do...

 

[medicineman]

Just as much as the Clerks' bosses have long memories too.  Regardless of whether the OP is entitled or not, any clerk that was just too lazy to even try to get a member any sort of benefit, big or small, would've had my size 12 up their backside for a very long time!  And it would fit, provided the requisite amount of force!

If any CF member got short-changed, it was professional.  If it was a member of my unit, it was personal.  I truly hope their are clerks out there who still take pride in what they do...

Demanding 12 bucks and change that you may not in fact be entitled to, based solely on "it's the principle", isn't going to win you any friends in the clerk world (or any other) - and yes Ivan, I've read your profile.  If you can look me in the eye and say that you haven't at least thought about sending someone's pay docs to Sioux Lookout (when we had both) accidentally on purpose at one point in your life, I'd still call you a liar, because we all commit thought crimes - just that most of us do our best to work around them. 

Your job isn't to cater to people's whims, it's to ensure that regulations are met regarding what they get as a result of a given TD and to aid them in successfully getting there and back.  If they're entitled to something, sure they should get it...but the "I got it last time, so I should get it this time" syndrome that happens alot (and it happens in my job all the time too BTW) will create a relationship where nobody wants to talk to the customer ever again, or worse, mistakes get made...sometimes to the detriment of the member, sometimes the clerk, sometimes both.  Also, it wastes time doing mentally challenged pub searches when other things need doing.

BTW, I'm married to an RMS clerk who works like a demon, as does her co-worker and a majority of the clerks and other support trades in the service.  The problem lies in the fact that their client base, IMHO, has become increasingly more demanding and has developed a deep sense of self-entitlement.

To the OP and to amplify Lex - unless it breaks OPSEC/PERSEC of course - out of curiosity, what course would an MSE Op be doing  in North Carolina for 2 days in civilian clothing only? 

MM

Edited for spelliing and content.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Its the principle.

And not because you have a hard-on for clerks?

Military Administration / Re: Promotion Requirements (OSB -> AB)
« on: July 13, 2011, 18:52:16 »
If there is one thing I have learned in my career so far, you need to stay on top of ALL of your Admin by yourself. The RMS trade has its fair share of gluebags as well. I could go on about that in an entire new thread but I will leave it at that. (PS that was not intended as an insult to the RMS trase as I know some excellent clerks, only to the gluebags.)

 

[Occam]

To the OP and to amplify Lex - unless it breaks OPSEC/PERSEC of course - out of curiosity, what course would an MSE Op be doing  in North Carolina for 2 days in civilian clothing only? 

Wild stab in the dark, but CP comes to mind...

 

[Pusser]

Casual Civilian Dress Assistance does still exist, so if a clerk is tell you otherwise, he/she is wrong (which is a problem which should dealt with by the clerk's supervisor).  Regardless of actual entitlement, members should not be given incorrect information

However, based on the information the OP has given, I'm not convinced it would apply in this case.  Without more detail, it is difficult to determine if the member is prohibited from wearing a uniform or merely being given the option of not wearing one.  My reading of CBI 205.575 is that uniforms must be prohibited, not merely discouraged.  This would also be an issue for discussion between the "employing agency" and the applicable Base Commander (the approving authority).  Furthermore, is an agency providing a course, which the CF presumably pays tuition for, an "employing agency" for the purposes of this CBI (since they're providing a service and not actually employing the member).  I also find it difficult to believe that any organization in the US, particularly one with which the CF would be dealing, would prohibit a military uniform.  That country is absolutely enamoured, particularly in its corporate culture, with all things military.

Another thing to keep in mind with CCDA is that in reading the whole regulation, it is clear that you are expected to actually buy or alter clothing.  If you don't actually use it, you have to report it as income to CRA and pay taxes on it.  Dry cleaning doesn't count (says so in the regulation).  Not so lucrative now.

Having said all this, I do recall the SHARP training we did years ago in Halifax where uniforms were definitely prohibited (people who arrived in uniform were sent away).  None of us received CCDA, but it appears now that we should have...

 

[Hurricane]

And not because you have a hard-on for clerks?

No actually quite the opposite, I have had many helpful clerks. On the other hand, I have had many that would rather check status updates on facebook, help with your issue. I did not go in "demanding" anything. Nor did I use the "I got it last time, why not this time?" line either. That was merely included in my post to put the situation into context.

What in fact happened was, I simply inquired about CCDAA when picking up my claim and pasport. To which the clerk replied, "what is that?" That right there tells me I am not getting it because they have no clue what it is, however after telling her what CCDAA stands for. She fumbles around with some words and then says "No they got rid of that, and its not long enough anyway."

It's not so much about the 12 and change, it's about telling people you don't know if you do not. Not try and find an answer that seems to sound believeable.

 

[Scott]

I'm starting to feel reminiscent of the socks-required-in-the-mess debate...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No actually quite the opposite, I have had many helpful clerks. On the other hand, I have had many that would rather check status updates on facebook, help with your issue. I did not go in "demanding" anything. Nor did I use the "I got it last time, why not this time?" line either. That was merely included in my post to put the situation into context.

What in fact happened was, I simply inquired about CCDAA when picking up my claim and pasport. To which the clerk replied, "what is that?" That right there tells me I am not getting it because they have no clue what it is, however after telling her what CCDAA stands for. She fumbles around with some words and then says "No they got rid of that, and its not long enough anyway."

It's not so much about the 12 and change, it's about telling people you don't know if you do not. Not try and find an answer that seems to sound believeable.

Is this wild speculation or can you get FB on the DIN now?

 

[PMedMoe]

Is this wild speculation or can you get FB on the DIN now?

Yes, if you have iAccess. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yes, if you have iAccess.

And how common is that for lowly clerks?

 

[PMedMoe]

Don't know.  It seems to be on most computers now.

Not to mention, a lot of people have internet access on their personal cell phones.

 

[MJP]

And how common is that for lowly clerks?

Very common, I would be more surprised if they couldn't access their FB.