Québec Election: 7 Apr 14

[Remius]

You talk like you know the in's and out's of NB politics but are you even from there?  Ever heard of the NB CORE Party, at one point in the 90's they were the official opposition party in NB.  Guess what one of their party platforms was?  Getting rid of bilingualism in the province.

NB may have official bilingualism but the economics and politics of the province are completely screwed up.  Development and investment basically ends at the Miramichi River Valley and the province may let Acadiennes practice French in school but you just need to drive in the back woods of Northern, NB along the "Peninsule Acadienne" and look at some of the people living in shanty houses on social assistance to realize equal opportunity doesn't necessarily mean equal.

Full disclosure.  I'm not from NB and I'm not from Quebec.  I am, I think, informed on issues affecting fancophones particularly those outside Quebec.  Me being from there or not should not necessarily have any impact on the argument.  It would be like me telling you that because you are not a francophone despite seemingly knowing the ins an outs of a particular subject that your arguments are not valid.  I would rather not use my cultural or language background to back up an argument and stick with some of the facts.  I have family in NB (yes acadians from my maternal side) but that has no impact on what I am saying except the personal link and yes I've been but not often to the province but enough to know that there are some spots I don't want my car to break down (I realise that is a stereotype).

Back to COR though.  I am familiar with them.  But not intimately.  I remember when the Liberals owned every seat in the legislature.  I knew someone who was consulting on the procedural nightmare that was causing hence my interest in that particular situation.    One of there mandates was to drop the OL act but at the same time they wanted to regionalise language with unilingual French or English if the majority spoke that language.    But I believe that the voters were still displeased with the conservatives and their scandals and given that the party was a non entity afterwards should be telling that it was only a fringe movement with no gas.

Granted, an eventual seperation from Quebec might change that mood, however Acadians would likely fight within their own province than join an independant Quebec.

 

[a_majoor]

I am interested in how the various parties will react since the ground has shifted rather decisively towards economics as being the key issue of the election. I also will be looking to see if infighting starts within the ranks of the PQ, especially since separatism seems to have been kicked out from under their feet.

Whoever can move fastest and bring the best answers to the table for economic issues will probably pull ahead in this election.

 

[Remius]

I am interested in how the various parties will react since the ground has shifted rather decisively towards economics as being the key issue of the election. I also will be looking to see if infighting starts within the ranks of the PQ, especially since separatism seems to have been kicked out from under their feet.

Whoever can move fastest and bring the best answers to the table for economic issues will probably pull ahead in this election.

I think, and many other pundits and experts are predicting this, that Couillard will talk economics but end every argument or point with a reminder that a vote for Marois is a vote for separation.  Marois will desperately try and change the channel.  But I doubt that the media or her opponents will let up or give her a break.  The debate should be lively.  The only real problem is what the PLQ offers (I don't know if they'll have anything substantive on that issue).  also remember that healthcare is a top issue, and this is also something that larders should focus on.

Marois's problem is that she declared an election, I think, to solidify her power, not necessarily for any mandate, just power.  She's likely under tremendous pressure from the PQ pure laines.  This is make or break for her.  And peladeau will be waiting in the wings, maybe. 

But, sovereignty, Peladeau and the recent dumb @ss comments from Mailloux about circumcision and baptisms being akin to rape all are hurting the PQ and creating a free fall.

 

[Journeyman]

The only real problem is what the PLQ offers (I don't know if they'll have anything substantive .....

So they're just like their Federal counterparts? 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Are things heating up? I don't know.

Normally, I don't look at things my spam filter catches, but this just got caught there.

I'm not debating, or agreeing with anything in it. I just thought that we should realize that we're not in our own little private discussion on this subject.

There are others out there taking it serious enough to start these emails. I also believe there are enough tin hat wearing people out there that all they need to jump on the bandwagon and make noise is an invitation, like this, in their inbox.

So here it is, posted in it's entirety.

If Quebec should decide to hold a referendum and the Quebecois vote for leaving Canada, the fun starts.
1. Aboriginals will refuse to give up their traditional territory.
2. The St. Lawrence Seaway is jointly owned by Canada and the United States; Quebec has no claim to the lands set aside for the Seaway.
3. Montreal is an island in the St. Lawrence and may not be part of a new Quebec.
4. All federal facilities (and English speaking employees) in Quebec would have to relocate.
5. Air Canada could not continue maintenance operations in a foreign nation.
6. The Port of Montreal would wither as Canadian companies would have to find an Canadian location for imports and exports.
7. Airlines would cease landing in Quebec until they could negotiate landing rights with the new nation.
8. The Canada Space Agency could move from Saint-Hubert to Calgary.
9. Federally licensed financial institutions (all banks, for example) could no longer operate in Quebec.
10. Bilingual courts and a bilingual federal civil service would be history.
11. The Official Languages Act would be history.
12. Thousands of translators we pay for would out of work.
13. We would have 78 fewer Members of Parliament to pay for.
14. We would have 24 fewer Senators to pay for.
15. The NDP would lose 57 seats including Mulcair’s;
16. The Liberal would lose 8 seats including Trudeau’s.
17. The Conservative party’s majority would increase from 52% to 67%.
18. We would save about $20 billion annually in federal transfer payments - which could be used to pay down the federal debt.
19. We could save another $543 million in funds currently earmarked for bridges over the St. Lawrence and in and out of Montreal.
20. We would no longer support Bombardier.
21. All military aircraft work contracted by Canada would have to leave Quebec.
22. Goodbye to the CBC French language networks.

I can't think of any good reasons not to cheer them on.
Go Pauline Marois, go take Quebec out of confederation - and soon!
How about all the military ..they could move to Winnipeg
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[Remius]

So they're just like their Federal counterparts? 

For now.  Looking at what they had promised as far as jobs and the economy goes in 2012, it was far more substantive than what the PQ was proposing.  I assume we'll hear more this week, week 2 of the campaign.

 

[upandatom]

Isnt New Brunswick officially Bilingual as well?

and by bilingual I mean actually, truthfully, scouts honour Bilingual? not Quebec bilingual where english is borderline "tolerated"

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Isnt New Brunswick officially Bilingual as well?

and by bilingual I mean actually, truthfully, scouts honour Bilingual? not Quebec bilingual where english is borderline "tolerated"

I thought the same for Manitoba. They have a pretty large French speaking population  :dunno:

 

[Remius]

Isnt New Brunswick officially Bilingual as well?

and by bilingual I mean actually, truthfully, scouts honour Bilingual? not Quebec bilingual where english is borderline "tolerated"

New Brunswick is the only province that is "voluntarily" declared billigual.  Quebec is in fact the only officially declared unillingual province.  It is NOT billingual at all.

Manitoba although officially billingual is only so as a result of court rulings and not by any legislation or policy adopted by that province.  It in fact gets a disproportionate amount of linguistic services in comparison to its population when compared to other provinces.  It's actually quite a complicated situation.

The other provinces function in English but have not declared themselves as unilligual or English only.  Some like Ontario have developped regional billingualism policies.

 

[dapaterson]

Quebec is bilingual.




They speak French and Joual.

 

[Remius]

Quebec is bilingual.




They speak French and Joual.

Its more like they read French and speak joual 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

New Brunswick is the only province that is "voluntarily" declared billigual.  Quebec is in fact the only officially declared unillingual province.  It is NOT billingual at all.

Manitoba although officially billingual is only so as a result of court rulings and not by any legislation or policy adopted by that province.  It in fact gets a disproportionate amount of linguistic services in comparison to its population when compared to other provinces.  It's actually quite a complicated situation.

The other provinces function in English but have not declared themselves as unilligual or English only.  Some like Ontario have developped regional billingualism policies.

Cheers.

 

[xo31@711ret]

' I agree with you on these two points but to clarify my point on NB potentially splitting I would say it would only be contemplated if Quebec did separate as the Canada as we know it would no longer need to be a bilingual country; therefore, the province of NB would no longer need to be a bilingual province.  Les Acadiennes and Quebecois may not get along but if the Acadiennes felt isolated before Quebec separation they will feel far worse afterwards.  I would think they would throw their lot in with Quebec in that case as I doubt English NB would want to maintain the province's bilingual status as their would be little reason to do so.'
...Drew, I'm NOT criticizing you my friend, far from it;I respect your opinion Brother. But here where I am (Robertville; being from Bathurst, you know where it is) I just don't see it, hear it, feel it. Mostly any time talk of separation, from what I hear is the exact opposite: proud to Acadian and Canadian. Same with retired military folks I served with from Tracadie, Caraquet & other places along the Acadian peninsula. Never have I heard anyone (from here) discuss any positives separating, especially with a union with Quebec if it separated. Quit the contrary actually. Of course a lot (not all) of these folks at the time were, or had been in uniform one time in their lives...I work in part time in Belledune at the port and I don't see it there either. I see some (very) minor animosity on rare occasions especially between the older folks; but even that is rare. I think some of that is 'history' driven. I remember when Bouchard,  before the referendum, came to New Brunswick in the Dieppe area to make a speech and looking for support. It was all over the news when he would be there, timings, etc. From talking to military friends who were at that 'town hall meeting', Bouchard was damn near run out on a rail...nary a peep from the media though. Cherrs Bud & Pro Patria "Never Pass A Fault'.

 

[George Wallace]

xo31@711ret

I think your calculations on the amount of francophones in New Brunswick comes up a little short.  The area from Grand Falls through Edmundston has a large francophone population.  Fredericton's francophone population is growing.  It is not just the North Shore from Campbellton to Cape Tormentine and into Dieppe. 

..................But we are straying way off topic now.

 

[TCBF]

...
... I don't see how this can end well....

The age of Nationalism is a bygone era and history has shown us that we'll be better off without it, why then should we still abide us by a political concept that is arguably responsible for provoking the devastation of Europe in the last century?

Forgive me if I seem a bit aggressive but this subject makes me very emotional.

- Emotion is a good sign - it means that you care.
- Nationalism is the only bulwark against tribalism and fundamentalism. Nationalism is the only structure under which liberty can prevail. Notice I said liberty and not democracy. One can have democracy without liberty. Fact is, a bunch of cohesive small nations have a better shot at liberty than a small group of large nations or empires.
- The only constant regarding the boundaries of nations is that there is no constant. Canada will not 'end' any more than Germany 'ended' in 1945. Dozens of other examples exist.
- Give yourself a mission: Assume separation will take place. What policies should a future Canada and Quebec enact to ensure that they can both make decisions completely without input or interference from the other, yet result in being them the two top countries on earth that everyone will want to live in.  Now, make that future.

 

[Journeyman]

...... Assume separation will take place.

When numerous people are citing polls showing the separatists falling, why would one start with that assumption?  So far, such thinking has done little other than showcase the bigots and people lacking the slightest comprehension of real-world politics/economics.

 

[TCBF]

When numerous people are citing polls showing the separatists falling, why would one start with that assumption?  So far, such thinking has done little other than showcase the bigots and people lacking the slightest comprehension of real-world politics/economics.

- Because the people who come out on top are those who can make "Plan B" work.

- If it is even a POSSIBILITY, should we not be talking about the kind of Canada we want to live in?

 

[a_majoor]

While the PQ's hopes to win an election, possibly spring a referendum on people and emerge with a "mandate" for separation may be in shambles right now, it is not entirely clear that the other parties have what it takes to win the election.

The speculation about NB francophones wishing to join an independent Quebec makes the assumption they are willing to hitch their wagon to a much smaller horse. Most people believe that a newly independent Quebec will have a massive drop in their standard of living (even without subdividing into Quebec and the various territories which will return themselves to Canada, or the other self induced forms of turmoil which will happen, especially if there is a UDI).

I suspect that most people outside of Quebec, regardless of language or origin, will recognize that the new "nation" will be small, insular and have very limited opportunities for most people. Kind of like now, only ramped up to "11".

 

[Remius]

Today's CROP poll has the liberals jumping 3% ahead of the PQ.  This might be the Peladeau effect we were waiting for, shifting some undecided.

The threat to the PQ isn't necessarily losing what they have, but the shifting undecided vote.

 

[upandatom]

Today's CROP poll has the liberals jumping 3% ahead of the PQ.  This might be the Peladeau effect we were waiting for, shifting some undecided.

The threat to the PQ isn't necessarily losing what they have, but the shifting undecided vote.

I have given up on paying attention to the polls. They are very biased, one day the PQ is up 10%, the next day Liberals 5%, it depends on the source doing the poll and whoever is reading the answer.

The fact is- What Marois has done is create a hate filled environment, one for the uneducated, unemployed, out of work welfare unilingual francophone (please let it be known I am not talking all francophones here, I know some that think she is stuck pig) that hates the english, they hate Canada. She has started by saying oh the reason why you are taxed so high is because Canada wants the money (fails to state they pull 33% of the federal provincial pool). There have even been quotes by her in the recent months agreeing with the PQs reasoning for the previous referendum failing is the "Jewish Money." It is utterly disgusting, They know Marois will fall for this and theat is why PKP, is next in line nipping at her heels.

The sad part is, the money Quebecor Media Inc makes is from all of Canada, people "cancelled" there videotron because PKP and QMI own it;
Well heres a thought-

Sun Media (newspapers) (includes the former Osprey Media)
TVA Group (broadcasting, publishing & production)
Vidéotron (cable television and internet service provider)
Canoe Inc. (internet websites including Canoe.ca/Canoe.com portal and Archambault.ca)
MediaPages (print and online directories)
TVA Publishing Inc. (largest magazine publishing company in Quebec)
Quebecor Media Book Group (book publishing companies)
Archambault stores (books, music and video)
Distribution Select (distributor of CDs and videos)
Le SuperClub Vidéotron (Movie rental stores)
Nurun Inc. (interactive agency)
Gestion Studios Bloobuzz S. E. C (a video games publisher)

Thats the list right from Wiki, that is alot of companies that people would have to start to "Boycott"
He is still a major share holder in QMI

Its just a sad state of affairs. The comments, the harrassment, the assaults (literal assaults) on "anglos" who are also Canadians, because of the language they speak, and the Federal government sitting on their hands.