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PTSD blame game questions

the 48th regulator

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Halifax Tar said:
We will simply have to agree to disagree.

We can do whatever floats your boat, however attitudes like yours and JH harm people.

It's not about opinion, it is about lack of knowledge.

 

mariomike

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I firmly believe that your permanent work partner is your best person to confide in. They experience exactly what you do at the same time.
Only they understand.
Certainly not my wife!  :)
 

Halifax Tar

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Zebedy Colt said:
We can do whatever floats your boat, however attitudes like yours and JH harm people.

It's not about opinion, it is about lack of knowledge.


Right, well like I said we agree to disagree then ?
 

the 48th regulator

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Halifax Tar said:
Right, well like I said we agree to disagree then ?

I think I made it quite obvious I disagree with you.

Vayas con Dios, Amigo.

Just make sure the malingerer you are questioning, isn't found hanging in the shacks.

 

Halifax Tar

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Zebedy Colt said:
I think I made it quite obvious I disagree with you.

Vayas con Dios, Amigo.

Just make sure the malingerer you are questioning, isn't found hanging in the shacks.

:subbies: Happy New Year bud!
 

the 48th regulator

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Halifax Tar said:
:subbies: Happy New Year bud!

Gary-Busey.jpg
 

the 48th regulator

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mariomike said:
They have had a Peer Support Team since the mid-1980's. There is also EAP and the Staff psychologist.

Not according to the senior city officials I breifed in your HQ in North York.  Vince will also reiterate to you none has existed ever, as this is one of his biggest fights he has been doing, apart from WSIB recognizing OSIs as a legitimate medical injury..

 

mariomike

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Zebedy Colt said:
Not according to the senior city officials I breifed in your HQ in North York.  Vince will also reiterate to you none has existed ever, as this is one of his biggest fights he has been doing, apart from WSIB recognizing OSIs as a legitimate medical injury..

Not to argue with you, Zebedy Colt. Maybe you are right.

I just know what I read in the 2015 City of Toronto Ombudsman's report. That was long after I retired.
http://www.ombudsmantoronto.ca/OmbudsmanToronto/media/Documents/Investigative%20Report/Ombudsman-Report-TPS-November-2015.pdf?ext=.pdf

5.1 The Peer Support Team/Peer Resource Team

The Peer Resource Team has been in existence in some form for approximately 26 years. According to the TPS, it was developed because trained peer counsellors "are able to quickly understand, empathize with, and speak appropriately to the types of calls, the hours of work, and the stress that paramedics and emergency medical dispatchers experience." It was also felt that some employees may be more comfortable first reaching out to a peer for guidance and direction in dealing with stress.

With the second staff psychologist, members of the Peer Resource Team (then Peer Support Team) volunteered to participate in the program. Members were provided with training on how to assess situations, provide initial counselling and guidance to staff in finding appropriate resources for assistance. According to a 2005 document prepared by the TPS, the staff psychologist was responsible for the training and supervision of the 20 members on the Peer Support Team, including approximately 12 hours of training per year for each member.

Toronto EMS Chief Bruce Farr, Staff Report: "Toronto EMS Staff Psychologist Services" presented to the Community Services Committee 21October 2005.

Members of the peer team were also bound by an obligation of confidentiality. A member of the team could not reveal to others about even meeting with a staff member unless permission was provided by the staff member. Exceptions included the requirement to report situations in which there was a concern that an individual may harm him or herself or others or where there was suspected child abuse.
Dr. Gerry Goldberg, Building Resiliency: EMS Stress and the Peer Support Team (unpublished: for internal use by Toronto Paramedic Services) (February 2007).

Over the course of 2011 and 2012, the current staff psychologist undertook a redevelopment of the peer team, resulting in the current Peer Resource Team. The team was reselected and reformulated, involving a number of changes:

A new, standardized selection process, based on anonymous peer nominations and distribution of team members across years of service, shift schedule and employee groups;

Psychological screening of prospective members, as well as a panel interview;

Stringent confidentiality requirements, such as adherence to the College of Psychologists of Ontario confidentiality standards and zero-tolerance for confidentiality breaches;

Standardized psychological training based on industry standards;

Burnout prevention; and

Ongoing supervision and training by the staff psychologist, including routine reporting of services rendered to members to the staff psychologist, on an anonymous basis.

The Peer Resource Team includes both paramedics and dispatchers. They address the spectrum of critical incidents, cumulative stress, as well as other workplace and personal matters. Like the staff psychologist, members of the Peer Resource Team are on call 24/7 for critical incidents and crisis situations on an urgent and as needed basis.

The current Peer Resource Team is a group of 15, including a retired superintendent and a member of the Toronto Fire Services. The majority of the members are paramedics, but there are also some dispatchers, superintendents and one commander.

Each Monday morning, the TPS provides the list of on-call/available peer members for the coming week to all management and supervisor staff as well as superintendents to provide to staff. Employees of the TPS are free to contact members of the Peer Resource Team on their own. Due to recent concerns about difficulties in obtaining contact information for peer members, the TPS is in the process of developing Mental Health and Wellness posters to distribute across ambulance stations and TPS buildings that includes contact information for each member of the Peer Resource Team.

It was abundantly apparent throughout the course of this investigation that the Peer Resource Team is highly regarded, both inside and outside the service. In fact, when we spoke with other paramedic services across Ontario and Canada, many told us that they were modelling their own peer support programs after the model used by the TPS.

One particularly noteworthy point of praise for the Peer Resource Team came from the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General.

In the aftermath of the March 28, 2014 shooting that took place at the Brampton courthouse, members of the peer team along with the staff psychologist provided support to staff at the courthouse at the request of the Ministry. In a letter co-written by the Deputy Attorney General and the Chief Administrative Officer/Assistant Deputy Attorney General, praise was effusive for the team. Comments were made on the quality and levels of support provided in the days following the shooting. The letter noted that: "Our ability to reduce workplace refusals, sick time, and other costs associated with staff anxiety and stress can be directly attributed to the supports received in the days following the event."

Although the Peer Resource Team is widely praised, we were told that there is nothing within the service in the way of protocols, documents, guidelines or policies that govern the team or the role of its members.

I'll tell you a secret. That job was the most fun I had in my entire life.

 

the 48th regulator

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mariomike said:
Not to argue with you, Zebedy Colt. Maybe you are right.

I just know what I read in the 2015 City of Toronto Ombudsman's report. That was long after I retired.
http://www.ombudsmantoronto.ca/OmbudsmanToronto/media/Documents/Investigative%20Report/Ombudsman-Report-TPS-November-2015.pdf?ext=.pdf

5.1 The Peer Support Team/Peer Resource Team

The Peer Resource Team has been in existence in some form for approximately 26 years. According to the TPS, it was developed because trained peer counsellors "are able to quickly understand, empathize with, and speak appropriately to the types of calls, the hours of work, and the stress that paramedics and emergency medical dispatchers experience." It was also felt that some employees may be more comfortable first reaching out to a peer for guidance and direction in dealing with stress.

With the second staff psychologist, members of the Peer Resource Team (then Peer Support Team) volunteered to participate in the program. Members were provided with training on how to assess situations, provide initial counselling and guidance to staff in finding appropriate resources for assistance. According to a 2005 document prepared by the TPS, the staff psychologist was responsible for the training and supervision of the 20 members on the Peer Support Team, including approximately 12 hours of training per year for each member.

Toronto EMS Chief Bruce Farr, Staff Report: "Toronto EMS Staff Psychologist Services" presented to the Community Services Committee 21October 2005.

Members of the peer team were also bound by an obligation of confidentiality. A member of the team could not reveal to others about even meeting with a staff member unless permission was provided by the staff member. Exceptions included the requirement to report situations in which there was a concern that an individual may harm him or herself or others or where there was suspected child abuse.
Dr. Gerry Goldberg, Building Resiliency: EMS Stress and the Peer Support Team (unpublished: for internal use by Toronto Paramedic Services) (February 2007).

Over the course of 2011 and 2012, the current staff psychologist undertook a redevelopment of the peer team, resulting in the current Peer Resource Team. The team was reselected and reformulated, involving a number of changes:

A new, standardized selection process, based on anonymous peer nominations and distribution of team members across years of service, shift schedule and employee groups;

Psychological screening of prospective members, as well as a panel interview;

Stringent confidentiality requirements, such as adherence to the College of Psychologists of Ontario confidentiality standards and zero-tolerance for confidentiality breaches;

Standardized psychological training based on industry standards;

Burnout prevention; and

Ongoing supervision and training by the staff psychologist, including routine reporting of services rendered to members to the staff psychologist, on an anonymous basis.

The Peer Resource Team includes both paramedics and dispatchers. They address the spectrum of critical incidents, cumulative stress, as well as other workplace and personal matters. Like the staff psychologist, members of the Peer Resource Team are on call 24/7 for critical incidents and crisis situations on an urgent and as needed basis.

The current Peer Resource Team is a group of 15, including a retired superintendent and a member of the Toronto Fire Services. The majority of the members are paramedics, but there are also some dispatchers, superintendents and one commander.

Each Monday morning, the TPS provides the list of on-call/available peer members for the coming week to all management and supervisor staff as well as superintendents to provide to staff. Employees of the TPS are free to contact members of the Peer Resource Team on their own. Due to recent concerns about difficulties in obtaining contact information for peer members, the TPS is in the process of developing Mental Health and Wellness posters to distribute across ambulance stations and TPS buildings that includes contact information for each member of the Peer Resource Team.

It was abundantly apparent throughout the course of this investigation that the Peer Resource Team is highly regarded, both inside and outside the service. In fact, when we spoke with other paramedic services across Ontario and Canada, many told us that they were modelling their own peer support programs after the model used by the TPS.

One particularly noteworthy point of praise for the Peer Resource Team came from the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General.

In the aftermath of the March 28, 2014 shooting that took place at the Brampton courthouse, members of the peer team along with the staff psychologist provided support to staff at the courthouse at the request of the Ministry. In a letter co-written by the Deputy Attorney General and the Chief Administrative Officer/Assistant Deputy Attorney General, praise was effusive for the team. Comments were made on the quality and levels of support provided in the days following the shooting. The letter noted that: "Our ability to reduce workplace refusals, sick time, and other costs associated with staff anxiety and stress can be directly attributed to the supports received in the days following the event."

Although the Peer Resource Team is widely praised, we were told that there is nothing within the service in the way of protocols, documents, guidelines or policies that govern the team or the role of its members.

I'll tell you a secret. That job was the most fun I had in my entire life.

Most excellent resource.

Wish I had that when we had the meetings.

 

mariomike

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Zebedy Colt said:
Most excellent resource.

Wish I had that when we had the meetings.

I was never sure why they needed those teams? Who would know you better than your work partner? Some have been "married" for a quarter century.

If you can't talk to him/her, maybe it's time to put in for a transfer?

 

the 48th regulator

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mariomike said:
I was never sure why they needed those teams? Who would know you better than your work partner? Some have been "married" for a quarter century.

If you can't talk to him/her, maybe it's time to put in for a transfer?

Not all people get along with their "Battle Buddies".  Most don't even speak to their spouses.  As long as there is a resource, then it really doesn't matter where the person gets help.  Some people on this thread proved that.

Not everyone can be John Gage and Roy DeSoto.....

;)
 

mariomike

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Zebedy Colt said:
Not all people get along with their "Battle Buddies".  Most don't even speak to their spouses. 

In both cases, just say, "Yes, Dear". Works every time.  :)


Zebedy Colt said:
Not everyone can be John Gage and Roy DeSoto.....

Why did Roy never let Johnny drive? That is what they probably argued about.

 

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daftandbarmy

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mariomike said:
I was never sure why they needed those teams? Who would know you better than your work partner? Some have been "married" for a quarter century.

If you can't talk to him/her, maybe it's time to put in for a transfer?

You'd be surprised.

In the new, pseudo-improved 'defect free' military it can be a real career ender if you come up with something like 'You know, it creeped me out when.... (insert troubling incident here)'.
 

the 48th regulator

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daftandbarmy said:
You'd be surprised.

In the new, pseudo-improved 'defect free' military it can be a real career ender if you come up with something like 'You know, it creeped me out when.... (insert troubling incident here)'.

Thank you, and well said.

Too many people worrying about malingerers and carreers rather than supporting their Battle Buddies.

 

Jarnhamar

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Halifax Tar said:
Jarnhamer is right IMHO.

While no one doubts that we have many in our ranks who need help and struggle with PTSD, in recent times I am becoming more and more bewildered by the amount of my peers who are now diagnosed with PTSD and receiving various forms of treatment. 

Some I am sure struggle with demons and some I highly suspect are simply malingerers and have found an easy and convenient avenue to get more and give less.

Thanks Halifax Tar.

I think one of the main dangers with malingerers is that it causes members with actual injuries not to come forward and seek help. 

Everyone is human and makes judgements whether they like it or not. I've had to push members to go to the MIR to get injuries looked at because they didn't want to be associated with the members who got 3 days off for having a cold, wear running shoes in uniform or don't pull their own weight.

I realize there's two schools of thought on this and on the other hand having an environment where someones claims are questioned can cause just as much if not more damage. 

Ultimately I think the onus is on the medical system to do what they can to make sure the member is being properly diagnosed and not pulling a fast one over the medical system.  For me a member who self-diagnoses PTSD is a red flag.
 

George Wallace

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This  would seem to be Edward Earle Marsh shooting the messenger.  If we want to blindly believe that 100% of the cases making a claim are true, then we would be living in a society without crime.  However, a very small segment of society are criminals, or at least less than ethical, so we do not live in that idyllic world.  Living in denial, is not the solution. 
 

mariomike

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daftandbarmy said:
You'd be surprised.

In the new, pseudo-improved 'defect free' military it can be a real career ender if you come up with something like 'You know, it creeped me out when.... (insert troubling incident here)'.

I should have made my post more clear. I was referring to being cooped up 12 hours a day with the same partner year after year in emergency services. Not the CAF.

It's the little things that get to you. Constant foot tapping. Constantly opening and closing the glove compartment...

Jarnhamar said:
Ultimately I think the onus is on the medical system to do what they can to make sure the member is being properly diagnosed and not pulling a fast one over the medical system.

From what I have read, it would not be the first time, "Command was enraged when stories emerged at courts-martial of doctors in Glasgow or Manchester who for five pounds would brief a man on the symptoms necessary to get him taken off operations: insomnia, waking screaming in his quarters, bed-wetting, headaches, nightmares."
https://d1ldy8a769gy68.cloudfront.net/300/033/039/204/2/0330392042.jpg

I suppose now, one could Google "symptoms of PTSD".
"About 26,500,000 results"

See also,

Faking PTSD 
http://navy.ca/forums/threads/80858.0
3 pages.

Not to suggest anyone would do such a thing, of course.
 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
Like Howard Richmond.

To refresh our memories,

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ulMDyzu6fHIJ:https://navy.ca/forums/index.php%3Ftopic%3D111606.0+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
3 pages.
 
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