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Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

dapaterson

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For the valid medical and fitness test requirements, see CANFORGEN 87/06. 

 

CountDC

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Lumber said:
Couple of questions:

1. Where is the reference that states "you must have a valid FORCE test in order to be promoted";
2. Where is the reference that states "you must have a valid MEDICAL in order to be promoted";
3. If someone is on a T6, but has not actually gone back to see the doctor, is their "medical" still "valid"? I.e. if it's been 2 years since their last full medical, but they were put on TCAT 12 months ago, and were supposed to go to the doctor every 6 months, but haven't, are they promotable?
4. If someone is put on a PCAT that has been sent to DMCA for an AR because they are of HIGH RISK of breaching UOS, are they promotable, or do you have to wait for the finding before you can promote him? (assuming D MED POL doesn't find they're in breach of UOS).

1 and 2 - promotion policies.
3. if you are placed on a TCat it stays until you go back.  They do not expire on their own.  The T6 is telling you when you have to go see the medics for an update which could be all clear, extend TCAT or change to PCAT.
4. in past you had to wait for AR/Mel to be resolved but reading this it appears that may be out the door as medical no longer ties up the promotion.
 

Lumber

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CountDC said:
1 and 2 - promotion policies.
3. if you are placed on a TCat it stays until you go back.  They do not expire on their own.  The T6 is telling you when you have to go see the medics for an update which could be all clear, extend TCAT or change to PCAT.
4. in past you had to wait for AR/Mel to be resolved but reading this it appears that may be out the door as medical no longer ties up the promotion.

dapaterson said:
For the valid medical and fitness test requirements, see CANFORGEN 87/06. 

Ok, which policies exactly?

1. From CANFORGEN 087/06, (that dapaterson) it says about fit testing: "MEET THE MINIMUM OPERATIONAL STANDARDS RELATED TO UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICE AS SET OUT IN DAOD 5023-1 WHICH INCLUDES SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THE APPLICABLE FITNESS STANDARD

2. For medical, it's less clear. It says "MEET THE MINIMUM MEDICAL STANDARDS FOR THEIR OFFICER CLASSIFICATION IN ACCORDANCE A-MD-154-000/FP-000 MEDICAL STANDARDS FOR THE CANADIAN FORCES". So, it doesn't say "must have a valid and in date medical assessment complete." My rationalization would be that, if you haven't done a medical in 5 years, then you can't be considered to have met the minimum medical standards, because they have no proof to back it up. Requirement by inference rather than clear direction.

3. figured it out.

4. Para 5 of the CANFORGEN states "MEMBERS WHO ARE PERMANENTLY UNABLE TO MEET ONE OR MORE OF THE MINIMUM OPERATIONAL STANDARDS RELATED TO THE UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICEPRINCIPLE WILL BE RELEASED FROM THE CAF UNDER REF G."

When you get a PCAT that the MO thinks is of high risk of breaching UOS, they tell you about your new PCAT send your file to DMCA for an AR. I haven't seen anything that says you can't get promoted if your are under AR.

So, if you can now get promoted if you have a PCAT that does not meet your MOS standards, and you could always get promoted if your are under an AR, then in this case, could you get promoted with a PCAT with a high risk of breaching UOS, until such a time as they determine that it is in breach of UOS and give you the boot?
 

ModlrMike

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ArmyVern said:
Pers on TCats for MATA are promotable while pregnant.  Have been since forever.

I should have known that... bad example on my part.  :(
 

RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

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It's framed as a way to remove the stigma for people reporting PTSD and mental illness to encourage them to seek help without having their careers trashed.

What it will typically be used for is out of shape majors in Ottawa to get put on Tcat, be medically exempted from FORCE test and still enjoy career progression to out of shape LCols.
 

armyvern

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Lumber said:
When you get a PCAT that the MO thinks is of high risk of breaching UOS, they tell you about your new PCAT send your file to DMCA for an AR. I haven't seen anything that says you can't get promoted if your are under AR.

So, if you can now get promoted if you have a PCAT that does not meet your MOS standards, and you could always get promoted if your are under an AR, then in this case, could you get promoted with a PCAT with a high risk of breaching UOS, until such a time as they determine that it is in breach of UOS and give you the boot?

Well, I can tell you that I hand walk our promotion files to the BHosp here at my location for signatures on the promotion paperwork.

In the section where the medical category is entered by the medical staff it is their current category - if valid - or pending recommended temp/perm medical category if an AR is underway.  They then choose the "Promotion Recommended" or "Promotion Not recommended" block as applicable and sign/date.  Every file that I have taken them (except for MATA) that has had a TCat/AR Review noted, they have chosen "Promotion NOT Recommended".

Apparently, that will change with this message as a TCat or AR doesn't matter any more.
 

Lumber

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ArmyVern said:
Every file that I have taken them (except for MATA) that has had a TCat/AR Review noted, they have chosen "Promotion NOT Recommended".

Apparently, that will change with this message as a TCat or AR doesn't matter any more.

The PCat doesn't matter... but does the AR?

Anyways, we submitted the request for promotion. We'll see what happens.
 

AleaIactaEst

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I am hired as an armoured soldier, and I was wondering what I would be doing for work during the spaces between bmq, sq, and moc.

As well I was wondering if I would be eligible to take courses outside of my designated trade. I am quite willing to do ten years as an armoured soldier, but I also appreciate the fact that the more experience and knowledge you have the better soldier you can be and a more reliable teammate you become.


Apologies in advance, I was unable to find a similar thread in the search function or using google, but I'll certainly delete the thread if it's incorrectly placed or if I've overlooked a thread that answers these questions.

Thank you, and have a good day!
 

mariomike

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AleaIactaEst said:
I am hired as an armoured soldier, and I was wondering what I would be doing for work during the spaces between bmq, sq, and moc.

You may find these discussions helpful,

Armour
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?board=3.0

As always,  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.
 

AleaIactaEst

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mariomike said:
You may find these discussions helpful,

Armour
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?board=3.0

As always,  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.

Thank you very much.
 

xbowhntr

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Good Day,

I am being told that there is a chance that i will be forced to defer a promotion  and not be posted due to trouble finding someone to fill my current position.

Anyone know the policy surrounding this?

Vr

Xbow
 

Piece of Cake

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xbowhntr said:
Good Day,

I am being told that there is a chance that i will be forced to defer a promotion  and not be posted due to trouble finding someone to fill my current position.

Anyone know the policy surrounding this?

Vr

Xbow


May I ask what is your current rank?
 

xbowhntr

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Sure, Capt.

I am just curious. I am not against staying in the position i am in for another year and deferring til Dec.

Im on vacay for several weeks and have no dwan access or else i would just look it up.
 

Occam

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Not sure if the officer side of the house works differently, but if you're skipped over (as in they promote above and below you on the merit list), your promotion is guaranteed for December of that year - you'll just be overranked in the position.  Or at least that's how it unfolded for me 10 or so years ago.
 

devil39

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I deferred promotion to LCol by a year to stay in a SOFCOM unit as the DCO. 

Don't think you can be forced to defer a promotion. 

I volunteered......probably stupidly deferred,  but I wouldn't do anything different in the same situation again.
 

SupersonicMax

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You CoC and trade can elect not to post you for the subsequent APS, promote you 1 Dec, employ you, over-ranked for 6 months and post you two APS later (ie: picked up on the 2017 board, promoted 1 Dec 2018 posted APS 19.
 

PuckChaser

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I don't remember seeing any policy that requires someone has to be promoted during APS. It sucks you're out a few months of pay but not much you can do.
 

LanVan

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I’ve always been told that 2 years after QL3, we are eligible for QL5. Ive excelled within this time and held a 2IC position and often fill in for Shift IC when manning is tight. I’ve recieved excellent PDR and PER’s resulting in a ready and have Hit the numbers for promotion to the next rank.. 2 years have come and gone....another six months...nothing. I’ve been told that I’m not going on my 5’ s until spring 2019, a full year after eligibility. The reason given for he delay was that MP group training decides who is loaded, not the CM and that it is done alphabetically... nothing the unit can do.
My subordinates will be qualified before me?
Can anyone out there confirm this process or recommend a course of action?
I think it’s BS personally.
 

garb811

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You have always been told?  Did you actually look up the reference to find out if that is true or not for yourself? You probably should before you start feeling hard done by.

As for the CM not having input on the load into QL5 when you are a Cpl, why would they?  The CM's involvement with the Designated Training Authority is not required because you are already Acting Lack Corporal, and in any case, the CM is not the authority for promotion to Cpl, the CO is.  Even in the cases where pers are due to be promoted, the CM's involvement is to support the Training Authority on who should be prioritized for course loading, they are not the ones who do the actual load for our courses. Even for things like PLQ-A, the CM is simply the nominator, CTC is the Designated Training Authority who actually makes the decision on who will be loaded on the course, although in most cases that is a formality because MOSIDs are allocated "x" number of seats in a given course.

Like it or not, you are a AL/Cpl just like every other AL/Cpl in the Branch. There is no requirement at this time to give you preferential treatment on course loading you because you will have your QL5A in plenty of time to be promotable next APS.  At which time you are going to become AL/MCpl and then be back in the same position.

I get it, there is $$ involved, but that was why the decision was made to find an impartial system to load the people who have been graduating off of the super courses into the QL5s because everyone can't go at once.
 
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