The Heron is a MALE UAV operating at up to 30 000 feet......you wont hear it. If you do it certainly wont be like the skidoo we have now.
Power plant Rotax 914 (115 hp)
Heh... ROTAX... by Bombardier
The Heron UAV deal was made because it was available to us in the timeframe we needed IOT replace the Sperwer.
MG34 said:Also brings up the question how does an unarmed vehicle fix an enemy in position to allow other assets to spool up?
MG34 said:I would bet even money that attackers would have been destroyed had the Gazelles been armed, and in a standby position waiting to be called in ,deterrence is no way to win a war.
Of course, our doctrine (which bares remarkable resemblance to that of the Marines in a nation who’s military many would like to emulate) points out that counter-insurgency is not won through military means. Rather, military means provide the stability/security that enable all the other government agencies the freedom to win. To this end, if deterrence can contribute to stability (and save lives) then it does contribute to winning the counter insurgency war. …. But that’s a tangent. The Heron UAV was not bought to deter but to see.MG34 said:… deterrence is no way to win a war.
SeaKingTacco said:There is another UAV project still on the books for the "permanent" UAV solution for the CF- one that will give service both overseas and in Canada. This particular UAV is meant only to get us through Afghanistan. Hopefully, by 2012-2014 we will have the final product on the ramp.
CDN Aviator said:Canada couldnt have gotten the Pred-B even if it wanted to. Complete production is spoken for.
CDN Aviator said:Our mandate in Afghanistan will be long over before we would get our turn for the MQ-9 reaper.
SeaKingTacco said:... there are two UAV projects in the Air Force- NOCTUA and JUSTAS.
NOCTUA was just awarded and is only meant to really get us through the rest of Afghanistan.
JUSTAS will be the permanent addition of UAVs to the CF inventory.
It has also been pointed out (even in this thread) that Sperwer will not remain sustainable. Neither Predator nor Reapor can be delivered now (and we have a need now), but they can (and still might be) delivered in a handful of years. Heron (while it may only be the 70% solution) is available now.CDN Aviator said:The Heron UAV deal was made because it was available to us in the timeframe we needed IOT replace the Sperwer. This is NOT the final UAV for the Canadian Forces. For all of you in the "well theres much better out there " crowd....well....yeah we know. But we needed something that was deliverable now...not 2 years from now.
Canada couldn't have gotten the Pred-B even if it wanted to. Complete production is spoken for.
Surprising position as all publicly available information seems to contradict you. In fact (as seen at the start of this thread and here: http://www.casr.ca/doc-loi-noctua-uav.htm), the manufacture identifies its primary reason for not bidding the Predator was that the required delivery was too quick and the late penalties too expensive.Wilfred828 said:Wow! I'm tired of seeing this. This statement is simply not true. Every year since 2006, the Americans have offered to make available a Predator or Reaper system, training, and in-theatre maintenance support alongside their operations at KAF. That includes yet another offer for Reaper earlier this year that would have had CF-flagged Reapers in KAF by the end of 2008, even before Noctua!
Another bit that does not seem to fit the publicly available information. In other threads (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60171.0/all.html) and over at CASR (http://www.casr.ca/doc-loi-noctua-uav.htm) all the information points to cabinet as the source of the decision to compete. That’s a few levels above senior DND leadership. In any case, if it is not possible for Predators to be made available on time through a competitive process, I cannot see how sole-sourcing would have made aircraft suddenly appear.Wilfred828 said:Senior DND leadership folded, thinking that the government wouldn't support the effort.
It may be feasible, but delivery would be pushed off for another 1-2 years as engineers & bureaucrats went about looking into electromagnetic compatibility, platform power budgeting, systems integration engineering, air worthiness, ammunition safety & suitability, and a handful of other tests & certifications. In the end, Noctua could end-up delivering the 80% solution at the same time that Justas starts bringing online the 90-95% solution.Infidel-6 said:AGM-114 hellfire only wieghs in at 108lbs for the LongBow Apache variant - a little less for others.
In theory you could get a few and a targeting pod
After the PMs, I’m still not sure I understand and I don’t think that’s going to change. You are not disputing that there may have been limited options and you in fact do not care which options were available at the time of the decision. You feel we settled for the Heron, which you see as significantly below the capability required. But, if Heron was the best option on the table to meet our needs now, what did we settle from? Is the partial solution on time not better than the ideal solution after the fact?MG34 said:Gone to PM as you obviously don't understand what I am saying
MG34 said:I agree 100% if the UAV is not capable of destroying the tgt it sees it is of no value to the ground forces, yes early warning is nice but a Hellfire or 2 is much better. Once again the CF drops the ball.