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Project Noctua & the Heron UAV - Interim capability to support Afghanistan Ops

SeaKingTacco

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Like Cdn Aviator just said, there are two UAV projects in the Air Force- NOCTUA and JUSTAS.

NOCTUA was just awarded and is only meant to really get us through the rest of Afghanistan.

JUSTAS will be the permanent addition of UAVs to the CF inventory.
 

PuckChaser

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Ah ok, that makes much more sense now, thanks for the info!!!

Any news on whether the Pred system is still in for the JUSTAS contracts? I think we'd be horrible shortchanged if we didn't look towards that proven platform first, and compare it to others.
 

NCRCrow

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lets rent some ARTHUR Shell tracking radars from the Norwegians for 2 years for 40 million a pop!

more garbage!

I wish the CF and the Government would just spend the money and do it right the first time.

Buy the PRED-B's, no need for more red tape BS and standing up two more organizations at Startop or 101. (JUSTAS/NOCTUA)

The money we waste not doing it right the first time.....MHP anyone?
 

SeaKingTacco

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Hfxcrow-

If only, in the real world, were it as simple as you imply it to be...
 

GAP

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Canada Contracts for Heron UAVs
10-Aug-2008 16:42 EDT
Article Link

Israel Aerospace Industries’ Heron is a large MALE UAV in the MQ-1 Predator’s Class. It is primarily used as a surveillance UAV over land and sea, and can be equipped with a number of modular radar, sensor, and even electronic intelligence packages. The 2006 war in Lebanon also demonstrated that they could be armed, if necessary. Heron currently serves in Israel (Heron 1 and Heron TP), India, Turkey, and in France as the SIDM/EuroMALE variant.

The UAV will also begin serving Canada in Afghanistan, under an arrangement that parallels Britain’s interim lease of Hermes 450 UAVs from the UTaCS consortium of Thales UK and Elbit Systems. In Canada’s case, the Ardea partnership that supplies and operates the UAVs involves Elbit’s rival IAI, and Canadian surveillance & aerospace firm MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates Ltd.

MDA’s surveillance solution will be operational in Afghanistan before February 2009. The initial C$ 95 million (about $90 million) UAV operations and training contract will keep the Herons in service until early 2011, with a C$ 35 million option for an additional 3rd year. MDA release.

Canada has a JUSTAS program that includes UAVs in this class, just as Britain has its Watchkeeper UAV program. The Herons do fill the Phase 1 near-term MALE UAV requirements under JUSTAS, but the longer-term choices seem unlikely to be made until Phase 2. Meanwhile, MDA and IAI are promoting the Heron UAVs as a cheaper option for search-and rescue (SAR) and related surveillance tasks over Canada’s boreal forests and northern regions. A July 10/08 exercise in Suffield, Alberta involved the Heron UAV finding the wreckage of a ‘crashed’ Cessna, and coordinating the ‘rescue’ of Canadian MP Art Hangar. The Canadian Civil Air Search and Rescue Association attended and commented approvingly, and the Discovery Channel filmed the exercise
More on link
 

PuckChaser

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Do the critics think we have all sorts of extra people to run Sperwers and the Herons? It'd be nice if we could run everything.
 

midget-boyd91

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PuckChaser said:
Do the critics think we have all sorts of extra people to run Sperwers and the Herons? It'd be nice if we could run everything.

Maybe they took the 'U' in UAV a bit too literal and thought they flew themselves?  ::)

Midget
 

George Wallace

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PuckChaser said:
Do the critics think we have all sorts of extra people to run Sperwers and the Herons? It'd be nice if we could run everything.

Of course.  Don't you remember Chretien's "Kinder, Gentler Army" where we were expected to become more technical than Combat Armsie..........We can put more technical geeks in the Field and forget all about those brutish Infantry types.    ::)
 

geo

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Let,s face it, the sperwers were an earlier generation
The Heron is a new generation - time to put the old ones to bed & move on.
 

George Wallace

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Besides

Canada originally bought the Sperwer in 2003 and rushed it into service over a three-month period. In 2006, Denmark decided to sell off its Sperwers because of technical issues and problems in operating the aircraft, so Canada purchased them as well.

Some defence officials put the total cost of Canada's Sperwer project at about $400 million when the training of military personnel and other factors are considered.

There were a number of crashes involving the Sperwer, which drove up the costs to operate the system. Those crashes have been blamed on Afghanistan's extreme environment and a lack of experience among military personnel operating the drones.

They have been a bit of a problem since they were purchased. 

Perhaps we can sell them back to the French or the Dutch, who intend on using them in Afghanistan.  Even deliver them in Theatre.
 
A

aesop081

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1- There are not enough Sperwer left to make it a sustainable capability
2- We dont have the personel to man both
3- The Heron will be such a leap in capability that we dont need Sperwer
 

Loachman

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The "some who are questioning" should come for a visit and get some blunt answers.
 

Wilfred828

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The sad truth of the matter is that the Heron being leased is a fine reconnaissance asset, and a quantum leap beyond Sperwer, but it leaves much to be desired when it comes to the tactical support missions (strike coordination, close air support, convoy overwatch, etc.) that are the bread and butter of Predator and Reaper operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those are the missions that bring the soldiers home safely. As is so often the case here in Canada, the requirement was castrated in order to allow Canadian companies with no experience supporting military UAV operations abroad to compete. A Canadian company got the contract, yes, but it is the Canadian soldier who will pay the price in blood.  And for those who think Predator and Reaper weren't offered to Canada, or weren't available, think again.  There were other options. :cdn:
 

eurowing

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Your opinion is based on what? Your profile is very blank and provides little insight to your credibility.

Edit - I was in a rush.
 

SeaKingTacco

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And for those who think Predator and Reaper weren't offered to Canada, or weren't available, think again.  There were other options. 

Right.  ::)

Since I have actually spoken personally to the guys who make such decisions in our Air Force, I can state categorically that this is not some twisted plot to favour Canadian companies.  You get what you get when you are in a rush and don't plan ahead.  There weren't as many options as some might think.


 

KevinB

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I fail to see the use of a non armed ISR asset -- mini subunit UAV's fine - but for larger ones - its pissing in the wind if your SurvOp sees Achmed and cant light his ass up.

  Great we know where a bomb is - fine thats nice - but I want to tail the cocksucker that put it there and waste him where he lives -- sometimes you cant get a DA team on station quick enough so - the Hellfire solution is the best way.

 
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MG34

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I agree 100% if the UAV is not capable of destroying the tgt it sees it is of no value to the ground forces, yes early warning is nice but a Hellfire or 2 is much better. Once again the CF drops the ball.
 

Ecco

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Infidel-6 said:
I fail to see the use of a non armed ISR asset -- mini subunit UAV's fine - but for larger ones - its pissing in the wind if your SurvOp sees Achmed and cant light his *** up.

  Great we know where a bomb is - fine thats nice - but I want to tail the ********** that put it there and waste him where he lives -- sometimes you cant get a DA team on station quick enough so - the Hellfire solution is the best way.

Blowing the IED digger is a victory that will save a couple of soldiers.  Following the digger to his bomb-manufacturer, his network, and attacking the network with other assets will save hundreds of soldiers.  ISR is a weapon.
 
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