Professional engineer through the C.F.

[bdave]

Hello

I am an engineering student and hold great interest in the Canadian Forces.
I will eventually be going the ROTP route (assuming I am accepted).
My MOC would concern the engineering profession.
I am mostly interested in either Construction (Airfield) Engineer or AERE.
That being said, I might one day decide that the military life is not for me.
Don't get me wrong, I intend to pay back in full and see my contract through till the end.
It is just something that has been bothering me for some time.

For someone to become a professional Engineer they must meet several criteria.
Two of those criteria are:
- Have an engineering degree from an accredited university.
- Having 2-4 years experience under your belt as a junior/apprentice engineer.

My main concern is whether those 2-4 years will be accounted for during my time in the C.F.

Yes, I have searched. Extensively. I did not find any post answering the question directly. There were "maybe"s thrown around but no definite yes or no.
I even emailed Engineers Canada ( http://www.engineerscanada.ca/e/index.cfm ), whom, in their infinite kindness, have not answered me.

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I hope this sub-forum is appropriate.

Thank you for your time.

 

[gcclarke]

Some of your training will be less or not applicable. If I recall correctly, going on to do further education (such as a Master's) only counted as half-time. I think you could make an argument that at least some of your training should be accounted as such. However, it'd have to be engineering related. I would imagine that things such as basic training, second language training, etc, would not count.

Once you're trade qualified and actually working as an engineer, that time should count.

 

[bdave]

Some of your training will be less or not applicable. If I recall correctly, going on to do further education (such as a Master's) only counted as half-time. I think you could make an argument that at least some of your training should be accounted as such. However, it'd have to be engineering related. I would imagine that things such as basic training, second language training, etc, would not count.

Once you're trade qualified and actually working as an engineer, that time should count.

I was referring to being completely trade qualified and doing actual work as an engineer. Not BMQ, or anything like that.

 

[gcclarke]

Yeah. That shouldn't be a problem. They'll even pay for it now-a-days, as per a change a few months back.

 

[Jed]

As far as the CF paying for P Eng dues, that is not entirely correct. Currently all P Eng in the Const Engr or Army Engr MOS, they do not currently qualify.

 

[BernDawg]

I am a Certified Civil Technician through ASTTBC the same governing body that designates PEng here in BC.  I am a Construction Technician by trade in the CF.  ASTTBC accepted my hours as signed off by the WCEO (Wing Construction & Engineering Officer).  Your work experience should be counted towards your cert.  Don't forget to build strong professional bonds as well because there is also a referral process involved in the certification.  ASTTBC Certification is automatically transferable to most if not all of the other governing bodies in North America.

 

[bdave]

Currently all P Eng in the Const Engr or Army Engr MOS, they do not currently qualify.

I do not understand this sentence.
Can you reword it?

 

[BernDawg]

As far as the CF paying for P Eng dues, that is not entirely correct. Currently all P Eng in the Const Engr or Army Engr MOS, they do not currently qualify.

Just to clarify, they meet the criteria for being a PEng but the CF does not cover their dues. Yes?

 

[bdave]

I would like to clarify: I honestly don't care for the paying of P Eng dues or anything like that.
I just want (to know if) my time in the CF to(/will) count.

 

[Cleared Hot]

While I can not directly speak to the specifics (I'm not an engineer) the short answer is yes.  I have a number of friends who are in various classifications including Artillery who rec'd their PEng designation a few years after graduating from RMC with Eng degrees.  If an Arty Officer can do it I am sure AERE would qualify.  PM me with specific questions and I will try to ask them for you.

 

[Jed]

Apparently I need to clarify my previous post.

A month or two ago, a CANFORGEN was issued that authorized the payment of P Eng dues to a number of MOS classifications. Unfortunately a large number of serving Engrs do not qualify as the Engrs and Const Engrs officers were not added to the eligible list that receives the few hundred dollar benefit of having the P Eng dues reimbursed.

Hopefully the military corrects this oversight in due course.

 

[SupersonicMax]

While I can not directly speak to the specifics (I'm not an engineer) the short answer is yes.  I have a number of friends who are in various classifications including Artillery who rec'd their PEng designation a few years after graduating from RMC with Eng degrees.  If an Arty Officer can do it I am sure AERE would qualify.  PM me with specific questions and I will try to ask them for you.

I find it doubtful, since you need to do intership, under the direct supervision of a P.Eng, in order to qualify.  From the P.Eng website:

Step Three: Internship
Like your fellow graduates aspiring to become true professionals, whether their degree is in law, medicine or accounting, next comes real, challenging, on-the-job experience in the form of an internship. The amount of experience you need to meet the profession's entrance requirements and become a P.Eng. varies from one province and territory to another, but in most cases, the minimum requirement is two to four years. You'll spend that time:

-Applying the engineering theory you learned in school;
-Gaining practical experience;
-Improving your communications skills;
-Building on your understanding of professional ethics and how the work of professional engineers impacts society; and
-Working under the close supervision of a P.Eng., so you can profit from their experience, and they can attest to the work you're doing.

 

[bdave]

Damnit.

That's what I was afraid of.

 

[BernDawg]

Check your inbox bdave.

 

[gcclarke]

From what I've been told, the "close supervision" part can be taken care of by keeping close track of your activities on a week to week basis, and having that signed off by a P.Eng. They don't nessisarily need to be within your chain of command. Or even working in the department.

 

[bdave]

I am going to update this thread with my findings, in case someone in the future ever has the same question, and searches army.ca forums for an answer:

I received an email:

Hello David,



To become a Professional Engineer in Canada, in general the experience requirement is for four years of relevant works experience generally under the supervision of a Professional Engineer. There is no requirement that it be in the private sector. There are many professional engineers who work in the military and for all levels of government who gained their work experience while working in these sectors.



If you have an idea in which province or provinces you will be posted, you may also wish to review the work experience requirements of those provinces.  A link to all the websites of the licensing bodies can be found at http://www.engineerscanada.ca/e/co_cms.cfm .

 

[gcclarke]

I think the key word in that e-mail would be "generally".

 

[bdave]

I think the key word in that e-mail would be "generally".

That is because the requirements vary from province to province.
You must be supervised by a P. Eng, though.

Hello Mr. McMartin,

I do not understand exactly how I am supposed to go about this.
Am I supposed to actively seek out a Professional Engineer to supervise my work while I am in the military?
How would I do that if my entire chain of command does not contain any P. Engineers?
All that is required to be an engineer in the Canadian Forces is an engineering degree; one does not need to be a P. Engineering.

Please advise.


Thank you for your time

Hello David,



First and foremost the important thing is to find a job in engineering that you are comfortable and happy with. This may or not be within the military, you will face similar problems of finding a P.Eng. supervisor in your field of practice whether in the military, government or in private sector. Having a P.Eng. supervisor depends on the corporate make up of the company. I am sure that if you enlist in Forces you will find a large number who indeed are professional engineers, I have met and know a number. This would be a question you could ask the recruiter and if it is part of their career development of a military engineer.



The important thing is the quality of experience and making sure it follows the requirements for licensure in the province of employment. For your information I have enclosed the work experience requirements for Professional Engineers Ontario, the association I am most familiar with. This document will provide you with what is expected of you after four years of experience.



In answer to your last comment, you can work in engineering without having a professional engineering license but you would be working under the supervision of a professional engineer in most cases, who would take responsibility for your work.



Regards

 

[Neepawa]

I have experience with exactly this issue, and recently received my P.Eng. based on my work in the CF.  Here's how:

After completing my B.Eng. at RMC, I signed up for the Engineering Intern Training (EIT) program offered by Professional Engineers Ontario (PEO).  For the next 5 years, I kept a record of the engineering related work I did, following the guidelines published by PEO.  Once I had completed the required experience and passed an exam on law and ethics, I submitted my experience record to PEO and was granted my license.

I was lucky in a couple respects.  First, the work I did as a Signals officer was easy to relate to the PEO requirements.  Second, I was fortunate to have supervisors with their P.Eng. that were willing to act as references for me.

The entire process cost about $1,000, all of which was covered by the CF through the Education Reimbursement program.  As mentioned above, the CF recently approved a plan to cover P.Eng. dues for a number of trades, and I expect my dues for this year to be reimbursed when I return to work.

I'm currently studying full time towards my master's, and by the end of the year I will have my B.Eng., M.Eng. and P.Eng., all courtesy of the CF.  Like the original poster, I consider this a long-term backup plan for when I eventually leave the CF for civilian life.

 

[BernDawg]

The way I understand it is that the CF will pay your dues ONLY if your position requires certification from a specific governing body.