• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Princess Patricia's warriors battle alongside Fighting 13th Marines at TRUEX, MA

Freight_Train

Member
Inactive
Reaction score
0
Points
210
I apoligize if this has already been posted, pictures found on the link
http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200546153250
MARINE CORPS BASE CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (April 6, 2005) -- In an average training environment, patrols and combat tactics can become monotonous. But in the high-speed world of expeditionary work-ups, combined with joint training efforts from the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit and Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI), things become a bit more interesting, eh?

Soldiers from the 3rd PPCLI flew south for the duration of the Fighting 13th's Training in an Urban Environment (TRUEX) and Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTFEX) exercises March 17-April 3 at Southern California Logistics Airport in Victorville, Calif.

Shock and Awe

â Å“This blows our exercises away,â ? said 2nd Lt. (pronounced â Å“Leftenantâ ?) Matt Dawe, 8th platoon commander, C co, 3rd Bn., â Å“the realism is, for lack of a better term, breathtaking.â ?

Dawe and the green warriors of the north took part in every event tailored for U.S. Marine combat operations. From Security and Stability Operations (SASO) to Cordon and Knock ops, the soldiers had their boots on the ground and their rifles at the ready.

â Å“The training has been so worthwhile,â ? said Dawe. â Å“The troops are loving every single minute of it. It's awe-inspiring.â ?

The Fighting 13th MEU

The 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit, an amphibious force affectionately referred to as â Å“America's 9-1-1 force,â ? a reflection of it's agile and fierce posture and ever-present combat readiness around the globe, hosted the Canadians during a critical point in pre-deployment work-up training.

In January, the MEU was formed with the attachment of Battalion Landing Team 2/1 (the Ground Combat Element), Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron-163 â Å“Evil Eyesâ ? (Air Combat Element), and MEU Service Support Group-13, the â Å“Shamrock Warriors.â ? (Support Element). It is currently involved in a six-month training cycle to prepare for the Western Pacific (WESTPAC) '05 deployment, scheduled for July.


Leadership Strengthened

Dawe, a Kingston, Ontario, native, is relatively new to the PPCLI, joining 3rd Bn. in October 2004. Though he is new to this leadership role, Dawe said he observed a level of maturity and leadership in his unit that he hadn't seen prior to training with the Fighting 13th.

â Å“Usually the novelty of training wears off after a bit,â ? started Dawe with a â Å“let's be realisticâ ? tone, â Å“but it's really been a reality check. Some of us weren't aware of how intense, fast-paced, and very violent war can be,â ? he continued. â Å“I (now) feel prepared as a leader. It's made me mature ... slightly.â ?

The intensity he described was most likely the constant echo of improvised explosive devices (IEDs), mortar shells, automatic weapons fire, AH-1W Super Cobra attack helicopters and simulated Arabic screams.

Aside from Marine warfighting equipment on the training area, Hollywood production crews were on deck providing make-up, actors, pyrotechnics and costumes that amplified the realistic training.

â Å“This is our first exercise with multiple elements like this. The locals, the 'press' ... it just takes the fight to a whole new level,â ? Dawe said.

He said the idea to expand the training opportunities for the 3rd PPCLI came in December. Early in the year, upper-echelon brass from the U.S. and Canada coordinated this joint training effort with the Fighting 13th, and on March 17, the Canadians found themselves in the desolate Mojave Desert plains of Southern California Logistics Airport, a realigned, former U.S. Air Force Base.

Base housing and several facilities at the site were open for exploitation in the interest of combat readiness training. After staying a few nights in the now abandoned commissary, the Canadians tactically advanced to â Å“Firm Base-4,â ? a fortified compound that would serve as their home for the duration of the training.

Marines, professional?

Instruction for operations in the urban environment was led by Special Operations Training Group (SOTG), who is preparing the MEU for it's Special Operations Capable qualification before the â Å“float.â ? The level of instruction undoubtedly had a positive impact on the soldiers.

â Å“The instructors were knowledgeable and they spoke from experience,â ? said Pvt. Ryan McLaren, machine gunner, C co, 3rd PPCLI.

Private Ryan VanHorlick agreed, saying, â Å“it's one thing to hear this stuff from book mongers, but from someone who's actually been (in combat), it really means something.â ?

VanHorlick and McLaren, both from British Columbia, agreed that the professionalism of the Marines was unparalleled to their experiences with â Å“otherâ ? forces at Fort Lewis, Wash., where they conducted urban combat training in the past. After having Marine Devil Dogs embedded in their ranks for the exercise, the two grunts were left with positive impressions.

â Å“We've worked with ANGLICO and they're professional, level-headed and well-trained,â ? said McLaren. His 'brother' echoed the sentiment, adding, â Å“Yeah, (the Marines) are pretty decent compared to the other guys we've worked with.â ?

Even Dawe, their platoon commander, seconded the notion. â Å“You've been a lot easier to deal with.â ?

Fair winds and following seas ...

At the sound of â Å“End-Ex!,â ? sighs of relief rang out, weapons were unloaded and boots were unlaced. Battle-fatigued warriors from both sides of the border spoke of liberty plans and reminisced over lessons learned. A formation was held and ceremonial plaques were exchanged, hands were shaken and salutes rendered.

Sometimes, though, the most meaningful words are not addressed to troops in formation. When sitting on his cot, reeking of carbon, sweat and rations, 2nd Lt. Dawe took a deep breath and spoke from his heart on behalf of his unit and country.

â Å“We are extremely grateful. We thank the MEU and the U.S. Marines, he added. â Å“This company is now the best trained in Canada.â ?

For more information about the Fighting 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit, visit the unit's Web site at www.usmc.mil/13thmeu.
 
some of the best training I've ever had. Extremely informative, educational, and bit of a bagdrive. Good stuff! All of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children I dealt with were good people. Lots of lessons learned from those who were in Fallujah, Mosul, etc.

And the High Desert of California/Nevada blows! I'm sunburnt, windburnt, and freezerburnt all in one!
 
Princess Patricia's warriors battle alongside Fighting 13th Marines at TRUEX, MAGTFEX 2005

Through the cover of tactical smoke, warriors of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry advance through urban terrain while training with the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit. The joint effort took place during Training in an Urban Environment and Marine Air-Ground Task Force Exercises in Victorville, Calif. March 17-April 3. Photo by: Cpl. Andy J. Hurt

Look - the official USMC page called us "Warriors" - sure is nicer then anything up here, where "members" would probably be the best we could get.

Looks like an awesome go - now I have a question for Paracowboy and others who were there.   The USMC is going through alot of Lessons Learned and is getting better and better everyday as more and more of the Corps gets first hand combat experience (often in multiple theaters).   How did our guys hold up with them?

It is 3PPCLI, so I imagine we had no troubles keeping pace.   I am only asking out of interest to see if anyone has noticed any real dramatic change in working with the Marines as opposed to, say, pre 9/11 or pre Iraq.
 
Just came across some photos of this ex, compliments of milphotos.net ( hey they're good for something over there)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43602&highlight=
 
Danjanou said:
( hey they're good for something over there)

What, like taking the pictures from the original article that is posted at the top.... ;D
 
Like the photo of a guy in MARPATs next to the Patricias in CADPAT.  The next generation of uniforms is becoming the standard.
 
OK, question: Is Maj Barr CO 3VP as indicated in the caption, or is he OC A Coy?
 
Sounds to me like the OC - AFAIK the current CO has posted here before.
 
Infanteer said:
What, like taking the pictures from the original article that is posted at the top.... ;D

basically yeah. And of course infantile flame wars  ;D
 
Hey, question, the fourth picture down, the picture of the guy identified as a C9 gunner, am I mistaken in thinking he's actually using a C6?
 
Big Foot wins the Small Arms recognition prize.

The guys writing the story up probably just confused our Canadian designations - remember they have different names for the same toys.
 
Reason I was asking is I've never seen, much less handled anything other than the Browning 9mm and the C7. Simple curiosity on my part, thats all :)
 
I did a SOC EX with the Marines with 1RCR back in 2000 in Lejune...

some great training with their MOUNT site but to be honest at the time I was less then impressed with the Marines in general, not saying they were bad just not what I expected I guess....anyway that was of course long before they as a whole saw combat in 2 theaters so I would really assume that they have the s**t wire tight nowdays.
 
now I have a question for Paracowboy and others who were there. The USMC is going through alot of Lessons Learned and is getting better and better everyday as more and more of the Corps gets first hand combat experience (often in multiple theaters). How did our guys hold up with them?

On the individual soldier level: really good. The D/S (mostly Gunnery Sergeants) I pestered for honest opinions were quite impressed with our troops. One even said that he'd like to have my section in his Platoon, â Å“you boys are as good as any Marines I've ever served with.â ? (For a Marine, that's quite the complement. ;)) On the Company level, not so hot. They weren't terribly impressed with our apparent timidity, lack of â Å“Hearts and Mindsâ ?, or failure to employ the various assets we had available to level targets (yeah, sounds contradictory, but it makes perfect sense if you think about it). Too much Bosnia. But, then, I don't know what was discussed at those levels, and have nothing to go on except what those Gunnies said to me. The story may be entirely different if you spoke with someone else, at higher levels than mine. So take that for what it's worth. Add $1.40 and you can get a large, double-double.

OK, question: Is Maj Barr CO 3VP as indicated in the caption, or is he OC A Coy?
Neither. He's OC C Coy. A Coy wasn't down there. The Marines call a Company Commander the CO.

The guys writing the story up probably just confused our Canadian designations - remember they have different names for the same toys.
Preee-cisely! I just call them the SAW and 240 down there. It's easier than trying to explain our designations. Although, once you explain how it works (C1, C3, C6, etc) they like the simplicity.

so I would really assume that they have the s**t wire tight nowdays.
Yes, and no. Remember, they're all very young, and serve for 4 years, then go on IRR. Terms of Service longer than 8 years used to be quite rare. So, they don't have crusty old Sgts and Jacks passing on the lessons and tricks, the way we do. The differences are slight, and yet extreme at the same time. Diff'rent strokes, diff'rent folks. Job still gets done. But, these boys all understand that they've joined to go to war. They fully realize that they're going to do the job. They take their training seriously, they take every opportunity to learn, they focus 100%. They know "Hajji is waiting". They realize that they are fighting to defend their families and way of life (and ours). I'd be proud to serve with any of them.

But, ain't no damn way I'm eating another T-rat! MREs, IMPs, raw meat, anything but T-Rats! No wonder them boys is so mean in a fight. Cooped up on a boat for 6 months, then stuck in a desert and fed slop. I'd be plumb nasty, too. (Instead of the gentle, delicate, flower that I am.)
 
paracowboy said:
But, ain't no darn way I'm eating another T-rat! MREs, IMPs, raw meat, anything but T-Rats! No wonder them boys is so mean in a fight. Cooped up on a boat for 6 months, then stuck in a desert and fed slop. I'd be plumb nasty, too. (Instead of the gentle, delicate, flower that I am.)

Hahahahaaha...I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one.  T-Rats blow.  I'd rather have an MRE anyday over the crap that comes out of one of those...especially the breakfasts, they're vile.

Otherwise good observations.  As a Marine and former CF member I'll agree with you in that the Marines lack the 'crusty' factor with some of the NCOs.  Promotion tends to be alot faster and your senior guys are in GySgt. and MSgt/1st Sgt. Levels where they don't have so much 1-on-1 interaction with the troops to impart alot of old lessons learned.  Also another thing lacking with the Marine Corps infantry community is a formal leadership progression.  While squad leader and platoon sergeant's courses do exist, they're not a prerequisite for promotion as they are in Canada.  The experience in Iraq and Afghanistan has been a great place to test and form the mettle of Marines, however there are still a significant number who fall through the cracks and still end up getting promoted with little experience or decent skill as an infantryman.

Cheers!
 
Paracowboy, you've piqued my curiosity. I'm trying to guess who you are but I can't put my finger on the answer. Formerly 3 RCR, tour in Afganistan, "fat ol' redneck" and a Mcpl. Hmmm... I'll have to work on this.

From my lowely troop perspective, it was incredible training. I've done urban training in Fort Benning at McKenna MOUT, Fort Lewis at Leischi Town, and now the derelict George Air Force Base in Victorville California, and I can say that the latter was the best by far. This is (was) an actual town, abandoned over 12 years ago, made up of nearly 400 houses. We learned very quickly how complicated urban terrain can be, how it truly is a 360 degree battle field and how quickly you can get killed if you're not watching each and every angle. We did dismounted section, platoon and company traces with such incredible realism that I don't think I'll ever forget it. They had over 150 Arab-American actors on hand along with special effects teams brought in from nearby Hollywood to make sure it felt like we were there. There were RPGs firing out of windows, IEDs blowing up along the roads, F-18s and Super Cobras screaming overhead and explosive-filled cars cutting into our convoys. We did an urban M203 shoot (shooting into windows and doors), doorway breaching (various methods) and a first aid stand so realistic that as soon as the amputee in the blood-covered sandbag bunker stopped screaming for his leg, his mother and his God, all you could do is look at your fake-blood soaked hands and try to convince yourself it wasn't real.

Now we're back in Edmonton preparing for three weeks of training in Wainwright, based on 60-year old doctrine, next month. After our time in California, any other kind of training seems that much more irrelevant.
 
xenomfba said:
Now we're back in Edmonton preparing for three weeks of training in Wainwright, based on 60-year old doctrine, next month. After our time in California, any other kind of training seems that much more irrelevant.

And therein lies the problem (and challenge) at this point. Obviously the training down south was more relevant, more demanding, and more fun than what we're doing. So, what can/is/will be done about that?
It seems that we're chronically a decade or two behind the ball with this stuff - ie, the construction of good FIBUA sites, the creation of a Canadian NTC in Wainright, etc. Maybe we have an opportunity to beat the curve here.

I see two options here-
One, can this level and form of training be provided in Canada? Perhaps bring up some of the Marine instructors and exercise organizers to provide input, and throw up a bi-annual ex like this to be provided to units in rotation? I don't know the details of the CMTC in Wainright, but will it feasible to do similar training there?

Or, second, can this become a regular training event for the Army - Can a permanent deal be made with the USMC that we send a company down on a regular basis for this? Perhaps a cheaper and more realistic option.

Frankly, the difference in the training that xenomfba has highlighted is, in my mind, criminal given the nature of current mission.
 
xenomfba said:
Now we're back in Edmonton preparing for three weeks of training in Wainwright, based on 60-year old doctrine, next month. After our time in California, any other kind of training seems that much more irrelevant.

:mad:

Go!!! made a very apt comment in another thread that is probably well worth considering:

GO!!! said:
1) High speed low drag trg such as FIBUA/MOUT are the war of the future. Such militaries as the USMC have adjusted their training to concentrate 80% on urban and 20% on "green" skills. It is not a sidebar, addendum or other distraction. IT IS the battle of the future. You are one of the dinosaurs you purport to want replaced if you believe that section and platoon attacks accross Wx or Meaford are supplying your troops with anything other than the will to kill figure 11s. We are not trying to delay the Soviet advance through the Fulda gap any longer. By 2010, 70% of the world's population will live in cities. We will fight there.

Is our current outlook setting us up for failure?
 
Is our current outlook setting us up for failure?

No, because as the last CLS told us (just before he became CDS) the current focus is the Three Block War and especially MOUT. or FIBUA, or operations in "complex terrain". That is the direction for the Army now. A few people just haven't locked onto that yet, and we face a very severe shortage of realistic training sites.

Cheers.
 
Good to hear.  Let's just say that from all the vibes that General Hillier has generated, I'm very excited to be around the Forces in the next little while.
 
Back
Top