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Primary Leadership Qualification Course (PLQ) Mega thread

Eye In The Sky

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So, is the concern with the CAF PLQ, or the AJLC or whatever it's called now?  Or...is it the way the course is being administered/conducted in Shilo, vice all Army JLC TEs?

The 46 year old supply tech has the same QS, TP etc to live up to on PLQ as the 26 year old, and that makes sense.  The way the course is delivered is likely the issue;  if the 46 year old mother of three with knee injuries did CAF PLQ in Borden, she could very well likely witness the same QS and TP applied...differently then at a "Battle School" TE.

Personally, I was and will remain a supporter of the way junior NCO training was grouped/conducted back when I did it;  ISCC (infantry only) , CLC (combat arms and service support) and JLC (everyone else).
 

RedcapCrusader

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Eye In The Sky said:
So, is the concern with the CAF PLQ, or the AJLC or whatever it's called now?  Or...is it the way the course is being administered/conducted in Shilo, vice all Army JLC TEs?

The 46 year old supply tech has the same QS, TP etc to live up to on PLQ as the 26 year old, and that makes sense.  The way the course is delivered is likely the issue;  if the 46 year old mother of three with knee injuries did CAF PLQ in Borden, she could very well likely witness the same QS and TP applied...differently then at a "Battle School" TE.

Personally, I was and will remain a supporter of the way junior NCO training was grouped/conducted back when I did it;  ISCC (infantry only) , CLC (combat arms and service support) and JLC (everyone else).

Doesn't matter if it's CAF PLQ or AJLC, it's the delivery by the DS.

My AJLC in Wainwright was great, instructors from the PPCLI with good heads on them. There was real mentorship.

My buddy did his same time in Edmonton and it was a course mainly of Reservists and the DS were very unreasonable. Like the previous poster mentioned, he learned more about what kind of leader NOT to be but couldn't remember much else from the course.
 

ringo598

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I think for me a little of both?  If a supply tech is doing a recce, something terrible has happened at the pointy end.  I'd love to see it tackle common tasks in the current battlefield.  Instead of Recce's and section attacks which I believe (Someone offer evidence of a non-combat trade running a section attack or recce in the 10 years in AFG?) those trades would reasonably never do. 

Is it better to train the combat tasks that will probably happen (Mounted ambush, IED, base defence, convoy's, etc) vs 'soldier first' skills that will nearly never happen? 

I think I'm bias'ed anyways as I'm a bitter complaining old guy who still has long lasting injuries from my course lol.

I just really hate seeing fellow soldiers hurt for what seems is minimal training value.
 

Eye In The Sky

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LunchMeat said:
Doesn't matter if it's CAF PLQ or AJLC, it's the delivery by the DS.

My AJLC in Wainwright was great, instructors from the PPCLI with good heads on them. There was real mentorship.

My buddy did his same time in Edmonton and it was a course mainly of Reservists and the DS were very unreasonable. Like the previous poster mentioned, he learned more about what kind of leader NOT to be but couldn't remember much else from the course.

Then I think we're agreeing and maybe not realizing it?  :nod:

The CAF PLQ employs the same QS/TP.  I'm betting that QS/TP is...delivered differently...at the Army TEs, the RCAFA in Borden, and at CFNOS in Halifax.  I know a few people (hard air trades) who did their PLQ @ CFLRS and compared to the normal delivery at the Air Academy, CFLRS had more f$$kery included during the course.
 

Eye In The Sky

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ringo598 said:
I think for me a little of both?  If a supply tech is doing a recce, something terrible has happened at the pointy end.  I'd love to see it tackle common tasks in the current battlefield.  Instead of Recce's and section attacks which I believe (Someone offer evidence of a non-combat trade running a section attack or recce in the 10 years in AFG?) those trades would reasonably never do. 

Is it better to train the combat tasks that will probably happen (Mounted ambush, IED, base defence, convoy's, etc) vs 'soldier first' skills that will nearly never happen? 

I think I'm bias'ed anyways as I'm a bitter complaining old guy who still has long lasting injuries from my course lol.

I just really hate seeing fellow soldiers hurt for what seems is minimal training value.

These are comments that I'm hoping, as a Standards & Training type in my current job, get pushed up the CofC, entered in course critiques, etc.  Commanders should have input/observations like this to consider in making their decisions.  Someone is managing the QS for the AJLC; is that QUal Mgr getting this type of feedback via course critiques and/or AAR? 

The course that started with 43 and graduated 18 (I think that was the numbers given above), that should have gotten the attention of the Standards folks. 

Despite all the name changing, and seemingly never ending changes to PLQ QS content, etc across the CAF, nothing seems to have REALLY changed since my CLC in '93.  My fire team partner was a Fin Clerk and her assessment to be a Fin Clerk MCpl was based on section attacks and recce patrols, vice anything related to the actual challenges in her job.  We had a sister course that was half combat arms, half CSS types, the same as we were.  We couldn't understand why they didn't run 1 CLC and 1 JLC course...fast forward 26 years and look at the discussion points now.  Not much has changed; the CAF appears to still be all over the board on Jnr NCO coursing.

 

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Eye In The Sky said:
Then I think we're agreeing and maybe not realizing it?  :nod:

The CAF PLQ employs the same QS/TP.  I'm betting that QS/TP is...delivered differently...at the Army TEs, the RCAFA in Borden, and at CFNOS in Halifax.  I know a few people (hard air trades) who did their PLQ @ CFLRS and compared to the normal delivery at the Air Academy, CFLRS had more f$$kery included during the course.

When I attended PLQ at the ACA in Borden back in '08 it was a relaxed course. We were one of the early "enhanced" PLQ courses that did the week in a "FOB" rather than the daily trip in busses to the "field". The field portion was a bit silly, but it was far better than the old style "move a barrel with these two sticks and a rubber band" type of task that had existed before. Our instructors were there to teach us about leadership(which was actually all management), and mentor us as experienced Sgts(the actual leadership training).

The course staff didn't mess around with us during inspections, we didn't even have a kit layout. All we had to do was tidy/clean our rooms, and wear presentable CADPAT. PT was only either PSP lead or, student lead as training for our assessment on our PT lesson plan.

I learned through time that apparently the RCN and CA didn't get the memo stating that Cpls and MCpls had already passed BMQ, and didn't need to be recoursed...
 

AF_Girl

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Hey,
Going on my PLQ in Halifax next month and wondering if anyone has information they can share with me. I am air force going on a navy PLQ and I have never been to Halifax.
Thanks :)
 

ringo598

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Even though I still havn't redone my AJLC, I did pass the CAF PLQ semi-recently.  The combined one isn't hard as long as the staff don't go out of their way to fail people which I doubt you'll see in Halifax simply because the Navy/Air seem more focused on running the course as a leadership qualification verse CAC-PLQ.  (Hmmm yessss put me in that stress position, sorry off topic).

Biggest non-medical RTU/Injury issues I saw:

1.  Giving briefs/orders.  Very basic public speaking skills, work on those.  Be able to write concisely and to sum things down, you'll get tons of stuff throw at you during orders, your job is to summerize and explain it down to your troops/sailors/airfolk.  Battle procedure is the entire field ex, just cycles of you getting orders, creating orders, giving orders, executing orders.  And remember, make a decision, the staff arn't looking for the best decision, but that you make one.

2.  The auto fails on mod 2, I think we had 8-9 people on final or PRB from all the auto fails.  You have to teach 3 classes which have tons of auto-fails in the scoring:
    a)  General Knowledge class like trenches or defensive works.
    b)  A weapons class on a section of the C7.  Example teaching how to field strip and clean.  Tons of autofails for safety here, like if you don't have the students clear their weapons or if you mess up the EDI process.  You'll learn EDI.
    c)  Drill.  You'll get a drill movement and have to teach your squad it.  Autofails for the process, of if you call the command wrong.  This one failed a lot of people because you had to memorize the entire class and process, while the other things you taught you could have an written aid.

If you do poorly and whatever, DON'T STRESS, the PRB/Warnings reset at the end of the mod.  Learn from your mistake and move on.

You get soft and hard assessments and lots of practice, but some people in front of a crowd all alone and having to call drill or missing one step of EDI and its a fail.  It sucks and I've never seen in 10 years a class taught the way they teach, but you play the game. 

You have to also be an A-RSO and run a fitness class as well, very few people failed this.  Just follow the steps and go through it with a buddy before you do it, its easy to tell who prepped and who didn't. 

Mod 3 is battle procedure and field ex.  Again, make a decision, look after your troops, write down and brief your orders in the correct sequence.  We made fill in the blank sheets to help out people who were having problems, it literally was to the point I had "I say again, 3 section will x by y with x IOT accomplish w" so you would remember to say the mission twice.  The field ex is just scenarios that you could face on any stab op, like a checkpoint.  Try to get done first before you get sleep ****ed, its definitely not equal at all since people who go first are clear and awake and so your job is much much easier, the guys who go near the end are completely wrecked and are at a huge disadvantage.  If you are strong on this take one for your team and let someone weaker go first and you take a test near the end.

Anything else just ask.
 

Rifleman62

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Dealing with tired people when giving Orders, it is good practice to ask for a quick brief back of the individual tasks/vital points of your orders to your section and the key points (e.g.timings, etc) before saying Questions in One/Two Minutes.
 

Chad.wiseman

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Curious if any units conduct mod 2 at their home units?  Also I noticed mod 3 and 4 are 17 training days.  Does that include weekends?
 

MilEME09

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Chad.wiseman said:
Curious if any units conduct mod 2 at their home units?  Also I noticed mod 3 and 4 are 17 training days.  Does that include weekends?

Mod 2 I have heard of being done locally, however mod 3 and 4 are done at the TC's, Training days never include weekends, it is actual working days so monday to friday. Field ex on mod 4 does go upto 14 days continuous but thats subject to candidate load. I was out of the field on day 10 because we were all done testing since we had roughly a section plus drop from the course. mostly due to injury as it was a winter course.
 

portcullisguy

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Hello, I am back in the ARes as an Inf Corporal after 6+ years of supp res, and back on this forum after 8 years of inactivity. And now I am back pretty much where I started, on a pre-plq. I had previously done mods 1-5 of the old PLQ over several training cycles but never got to finish mod 6 and so I am told I have to do it all again, which is fine, I am enjoying the practice as I am way rusty with so much time out. But my concern is no one seems to be able to answer my Q's about what PLQ will look like next year, WRT length of course. I am being told it could be 12 weeks. I don't have that kind of time off from work.

Does anyone have any solid info yet on the "new" PLQ and length of mods? 17 days for mod 3 and 4 mentioned above sounds reasonable, and I understand some other portions are now DL, but that is not what I am being told at unit (though nobody seems sure). Any info appreciated.
 

Brasidas

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portcullisguy said:
Hello, I am back in the ARes as an Inf Corporal after 6+ years of supp res, and back on this forum after 8 years of inactivity. And now I am back pretty much where I started, on a pre-plq. I had previously done mods 1-5 of the old PLQ over several training cycles but never got to finish mod 6 and so I am told I have to do it all again, which is fine, I am enjoying the practice as I am way rusty with so much time out. But my concern is no one seems to be able to answer my Q's about what PLQ will look like next year, WRT length of course. I am being told it could be 12 weeks. I don't have that kind of time off from work.

Does anyone have any solid info yet on the "new" PLQ and length of mods? 17 days for mod 3 and 4 mentioned above sounds reasonable, and I understand some other portions are now DL, but that is not what I am being told at unit (though nobody seems sure). Any info appreciated.

If by "new" you mean what's currently in the Army National Calendar, it's 20 training days for mod 3 and 16 days for AJLC.
 

portcullisguy

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Thanks for that. Assuming at least some portions of Mods 1 and 2 are distance learning, that means about 7 weeks away from work/home. Cheers.
 

Brasidas

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portcullisguy said:
Thanks for that. Assuming at least some portions of Mods 1 and 2 are distance learning, that means about 7 weeks away from work/home. Cheers.

Mod 1 is 9 days DL.

Mod 2 is usually at a training center, but some reserve brigades were running them locally on weekends and parade nights. Approximately 10 trg days, though there was some shifting and extra practice shoving the schedule around when I taught it this year.

I have no idea whether, when, or where a local mod 2 may run again. There's all kinds of cancellations on the national calendar, and there are no serials of any kind listed at the moment.
 
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