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Politics and Policies that affect private busines, the economy and impact on GDP

ArmyRick

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So I want to start a new discussion about those of us who own or manage a private business. Full disclosure, this is in relation to the discussions on Pierre Polivierre as the most likely front runner for the CPC and how people see him as "just not the guy for the job". I am very biased. AGAINST TRUDEAU. I have been a private business owner since 2012. I went into farming (all farmers are privately owned business) and mine is a little unique as I grow livestock from birth to slaughter and sell mostly direct to customers. How much cash your average person has impacts my business. Now you understand my background and approach to this.

I am very pro-PP. He has a very keen understanding on how cash should flow in a cycle in a healthy economy. He is also interested in facilitating busines growth by removing gate keepers and barriers. He pays very close attention to the detail things like how much it cost to get a cup of coffee, fill up your gas tank or buy a new home. The governing Liberals, seem oblivious to these problems. Or down play them. Or re-direct false flags right back at the Conservatives. The only REAL job growth in Canada in the last 2 years has mostly been federal government employment. Say what? THAT DOESN'T HELP the economy folks.

Now, for all you government full time employed people that comment on these things, I will probably offend you and thats tough, you need to hear the truth. For you folks commenting on how "its not so bad" or "conservatives NEVER!" mind set but you don't understand marketing, financial loss/profit, losing customers, direct and indirect financial impact (people having trouble paying for gas is a big reason I lost so many customers this year as an example). Now add to that, I have heard many knee jerk solutions from those not impacted like "ohh make a benefit for them" or subsidize them for their losses".

While true their are some but very few government programs that can help, they are TEMPORARY and should not be a long term solution. They usually have steep qualifications to get some of these benefits to begin with.

What policies do I want to see implemented by government at all levels?
1. Get off this fake green energy BS. Open up the gas industry full flow and lets dominate the market. Get Canadians working and making money. Canadians making money, spend money. And now you have an economy.
2. There are ways to safely and environmentally tap into other natural resources (Why are so many forest burning down when the experts have been saying we need to cut in fire breaks as an example. More product, more cash)
3. Remove AS MANY government barriers as possible. In my field, beef farming, I can tell you that there is so much waste in the OTM protocols (Over Thirty Months of age cattle) that its literally hundreds of thousand of pounds of beef thrown out every year. For a crisis that was actually an American problem but they blamed us. In 2003. I have also spoken of the waste of hides and fats from animals, there is more economic opportunity.
4. Trim government employment down, down, WAY down. Too many people employed for too much money. And we citizens are not getting our moneys worth.
5. Facilitate Green Wave in opening 3D Ocean Farms in as many places on the Canadian coasts as possible (Green Wave 3D ocean farms are amazing).

Gotta scoot, more to follow.
 

Remius

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So I want to start a new discussion about those of us who own or manage a private business. Full disclosure, this is in relation to the discussions on Pierre Polivierre as the most likely front runner for the CPC and how people see him as "just not the guy for the job". I am very biased. AGAINST TRUDEAU. I have been a private business owner since 2012. I went into farming (all farmers are privately owned business) and mine is a little unique as I grow livestock from birth to slaughter and sell mostly direct to customers. How much cash your average person has impacts my business. Now you understand my background and approach to this.

I am very pro-PP. He has a very keen understanding on how cash should flow in a cycle in a healthy economy. He is also interested in facilitating busines growth by removing gate keepers and barriers. He pays very close attention to the detail things like how much it cost to get a cup of coffee, fill up your gas tank or buy a new home. The governing Liberals, seem oblivious to these problems. Or down play them. Or re-direct false flags right back at the Conservatives. The only REAL job growth in Canada in the last 2 years has mostly been federal government employment. Say what? THAT DOESN'T HELP the economy folks.

Now, for all you government full time employed people that comment on these things, I will probably offend you and thats tough, you need to hear the truth. For you folks commenting on how "its not so bad" or "conservatives NEVER!" mind set but you don't understand marketing, financial loss/profit, losing customers, direct and indirect financial impact (people having trouble paying for gas is a big reason I lost so many customers this year as an example). Now add to that, I have heard many knee jerk solutions from those not impacted like "ohh make a benefit for them" or subsidize them for their losses".

While true their are some but very few government programs that can help, they are TEMPORARY and should not be a long term solution. They usually have steep qualifications to get some of these benefits to begin with.

What policies do I want to see implemented by government at all levels?
1. Get off this fake green energy BS. Open up the gas industry full flow and lets dominate the market. Get Canadians working and making money. Canadians making money, spend money. And now you have an economy.
2. There are ways to safely and environmentally tap into other natural resources (Why are so many forest burning down when the experts have been saying we need to cut in fire breaks as an example. More product, more cash)
3. Remove AS MANY government barriers as possible. In my field, beef farming, I can tell you that there is so much waste in the OTM protocols (Over Thirty Months of age cattle) that its literally hundreds of thousand of pounds of beef thrown out every year. For a crisis that was actually an American problem but they blamed us. In 2003. I have also spoken of the waste of hides and fats from animals, there is more economic opportunity.
4. Trim government employment down, down, WAY down. Too many people employed for too much money. And we citizens are not getting our moneys worth.
5. Facilitate Green Wave in opening 3D Ocean Farms in as many places on the Canadian coasts as possible (Green Wave 3D ocean farms are amazing).

Gotta scoot, more to follow.
Interesting discussion.

So a few questions or things to consider.

1. Get off this fake green energy BS. Open up the gas industry full flow and lets dominate the market. Get Canadians working and making money. Canadians making money, spend money. And now you have an economy.

I don’t disagree. But it needs to be sold in a way most people will accept. So far that messaging won’t resonate when you start with “fake green energy BS”. I would argue that majority of Canadians are pro environmental types. Climate change denial has hurt the CPC so they need a new type,of messaging to make going full gas throttle acceptable. I think with the economy where it is offers that sort of opportunity but will all be dependant on how the message is delivered.


2. There are ways to safely and environmentally tap into other natural resources (Why are so many forest burning down when the experts have been saying we need to cut in fire breaks as an example. More product, more cash)

See above and yes. So how do we get that message out?

3. Remove AS MANY government barriers as possible. In my field, beef farming, I can tell you that there is so much waste in the OTM protocols (Over Thirty Months of age cattle) that its literally hundreds of thousand of pounds of beef thrown out every year. For a crisis that was actually an American problem but they blamed us. In 2003. I have also spoken of the waste of hides and fats from animals, there is more economic opportunity.

Tough one. And even more tough when someone like PP says he wants to remove the gate keepers and still insists on supporting things like supply management. His message sounds on point but no real explanation on how. So will things change with him? Doubtful.

4. Trim government employment down, down, WAY down. Too many people employed for too much money. And we citizens are not getting our moneys worth.

Where? How many? What numbers are being used to determine that? Harper tried that and arguably made things worse. Done in a smart way at all levels maybe. Does that include the CAF? Government spending is not just about government employment.

5. Facilitate Green Wave in opening 3D Ocean Farms in as many places on the Canadian coasts as possible (Green Wave 3D ocean farms are amazing).

No clue what that is but will look into it.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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So I want to start a new discussion about those of us who own or manage a private business. Full disclosure, this is in relation to the discussions on Pierre Polivierre as the most likely front runner for the CPC and how people see him as "just not the guy for the job". I am very biased. AGAINST TRUDEAU. I have been a private business owner since 2012. I went into farming (all farmers are privately owned business) and mine is a little unique as I grow livestock from birth to slaughter and sell mostly direct to customers. How much cash your average person has impacts my business. Now you understand my background and approach to this.

I am very pro-PP. He has a very keen understanding on how cash should flow in a cycle in a healthy economy. He is also interested in facilitating busines growth by removing gate keepers and barriers. He pays very close attention to the detail things like how much it cost to get a cup of coffee, fill up your gas tank or buy a new home. The governing Liberals, seem oblivious to these problems. Or down play them. Or re-direct false flags right back at the Conservatives. The only REAL job growth in Canada in the last 2 years has mostly been federal government employment. Say what? THAT DOESN'T HELP the economy folks.

Now, for all you government full time employed people that comment on these things, I will probably offend you and thats tough, you need to hear the truth. For you folks commenting on how "its not so bad" or "conservatives NEVER!" mind set but you don't understand marketing, financial loss/profit, losing customers, direct and indirect financial impact (people having trouble paying for gas is a big reason I lost so many customers this year as an example). Now add to that, I have heard many knee jerk solutions from those not impacted like "ohh make a benefit for them" or subsidize them for their losses".

While true their are some but very few government programs that can help, they are TEMPORARY and should not be a long term solution. They usually have steep qualifications to get some of these benefits to begin with.

What policies do I want to see implemented by government at all levels?
1. Get off this fake green energy BS. Open up the gas industry full flow and lets dominate the market. Get Canadians working and making money. Canadians making money, spend money. And now you have an economy.
2. There are ways to safely and environmentally tap into other natural resources (Why are so many forest burning down when the experts have been saying we need to cut in fire breaks as an example. More product, more cash)
3. Remove AS MANY government barriers as possible. In my field, beef farming, I can tell you that there is so much waste in the OTM protocols (Over Thirty Months of age cattle) that its literally hundreds of thousand of pounds of beef thrown out every year. For a crisis that was actually an American problem but they blamed us. In 2003. I have also spoken of the waste of hides and fats from animals, there is more economic opportunity.
4. Trim government employment down, down, WAY down. Too many people employed for too much money. And we citizens are not getting our moneys worth.
5. Facilitate Green Wave in opening 3D Ocean Farms in as many places on the Canadian coasts as possible (Green Wave 3D ocean farms are amazing).

Gotta scoot, more to follow.
Interesting discussion Rick. I think one of the issues we suffer from in this Country is that the people championing the Green Energy/Environmentalism lobby aren't actually environmentalists.

They are anti-capitalist/socialists who have successfully managed to use this as a wedge issue.

"Environmentalists" in this Country are more about "sticking it to the man" than they are "saving the environment"
 

daftandbarmy

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Interesting discussion.

So a few questions or things to consider.

1. Get off this fake green energy BS. Open up the gas industry full flow and lets dominate the market. Get Canadians working and making money. Canadians making money, spend money. And now you have an economy.

I don’t disagree. But it needs to be sold in a way most people will accept. So far that messaging won’t resonate when you start with “fake green energy BS”. I would argue that majority of Canadians are pro environmental types. Climate change denial has hurt the CPC so they need a new type,of messaging to make going full gas throttle acceptable. I think with the economy where it is offers that sort of opportunity but will all be dependant on how the message is delivered.


2. There are ways to safely and environmentally tap into other natural resources (Why are so many forest burning down when the experts have been saying we need to cut in fire breaks as an example. More product, more cash)

See above and yes. So how do we get that message out?

3. Remove AS MANY government barriers as possible. In my field, beef farming, I can tell you that there is so much waste in the OTM protocols (Over Thirty Months of age cattle) that its literally hundreds of thousand of pounds of beef thrown out every year. For a crisis that was actually an American problem but they blamed us. In 2003. I have also spoken of the waste of hides and fats from animals, there is more economic opportunity.

Tough one. And even more tough when someone like PP says he wants to remove the gate keepers and still insists on supporting things like supply management. His message sounds on point but no real explanation on how. So will things change with him? Doubtful.

4. Trim government employment down, down, WAY down. Too many people employed for too much money. And we citizens are not getting our moneys worth.

Where? How many? What numbers are being used to determine that? Harper tried that and arguably made things worse. Done in a smart way at all levels maybe. Does that include the CAF? Government spending is not just about government employment.

5. Facilitate Green Wave in opening 3D Ocean Farms in as many places on the Canadian coasts as possible (Green Wave 3D ocean farms are amazing).

No clue what that is but will look into it.

Canada is generally anti-business. The US on the other hand, as one business owner said to me: "Almost kills you with encouragement". The relative difference in GDPs are a good example of the result of those very different cultures.

It's still possible to make a good living as a business owner so IMHO it's worth it. And alot of public sector work is going into making things more 'business friendly' here, behind the scenes, although cutting taxes is always the best stimulus to business growth - which will never happen here in any big way with any kind of Liberal/NDP government at the helm.

Some of the things you've mentioned above connect with this article. I know, I know... it's the Fraser Institute.... but alot of these things resonate regardless:


Business needs to focus on business​


In Canada and other western countries, there are increasing demands for a fundamental overhaul of the role of business in society. But in making their case for reform, prominent business leaders and intellectuals often misrepresent the status quo, minimize the power of markets to deliver broad prosperity—including environmental improvements and social progress—and present their proposals as costless. In reality, however, such radical recommendations to effectively socialize business will fail to achieve their intended goals and impose enormous costs.

Essentially, this new frontier of top-down socialism—whether it’s called stakeholder capitalism or environmental, social and governance (ESG)—requires businesses to prioritize loosely defined goals (including environmental and social goals) over goals directly related to their businesses. The claims of advocates, that such activities enhance profits, render the need for government action via laws and regulations redundant because if these activities were actually good for profits, firms would undertake them voluntarily.

Stakeholder capitalism (and ESG) promotes fundamental changes to the role of business in society, which will inevitably reduce firm profitability. Firm resources are reallocated from business priorities such as research and development, supply chain enhancements and worker training, towards other endeavours unrelated to operating businesses.

But the goal of businesses, since their inception, has been to provide a return to owners by efficiently producing goods and services the public wants and is willing to purchase. Businesses are forced by competition to worry about the needs and wants of their customers, figure out innovative ways to produce and deliver goods and services, and provide post-sale support to promote future business. The only way around this market discipline is for businesses to secure protection or preferential treatment from government.

It's also unclear why advocates of stakeholder capitalism and ESG assume that businesses—owners, executives and managers—can identify and execute environmental and social goals better than non-profits or democratically elected governments. Harvard law professors Bebchuk and Tallarita, in their paper The Illusory Promise of Stakeholder Governance, conclude that stakeholder capitalism will fail to achieve its stated goals while also diminishing the accountability of corporate leaders because of its opaque and subjective nature (a recent analysis found more than 600 ESG reporting frameworks, many of which conflict with one another).

Perhaps the most salient fact, however, is that these so-called reforms are unnecessary. The historical evidence is clear that societies that rely more on individuals, families, entrepreneurs and businesses to make bottom-up decisions rather than governments (top-down), enjoy higher standards of living, improved quality of life, greater social progress, better environments and interestingly more peaceful societies—the stated goals of stakeholder capitalism and ESG.

The idea that businesses ignore the communities where they operate or fail to treat their employees fairly seemingly ignores the real world around us. Consider how many local sporting, cultural and youth events are sponsored by local businesses. Or think about the lengths businesses go to retain and attract workers.

Finally, this push for greater spending by businesses on non-business-related priorities occurs while business investment in Canada is collapsing. A number of prominent economists including the governor of the Bank of Canada have noted that economic recovery and rising living standards cannot sustainably occur without increased business investment.

Business investment (excluding residential housing) declined by 4.0 per cent between 2015 and 2019 (before the COVID recession) compared to an increase of 30.8 per cent between 2004 and 2008, the equivalent period before the last recession. Investment in only factories, plants, machinery and equipment declined by 6.5 per cent (2015 to 2019) compared to an increase of 33.9 per cent (2004 to 2008). As prominent economist Jack Mintz recently argued, recovering and improving business investment should be the single priority of the federal government and yet it wasn’t even mentioned in the recent throne speech.

It's within this context that advocates for stakeholder capitalism and ESG want businesses to reallocate increasing amounts of resources to activities unrelated to improving profitability, thereby further discouraging business investment. Again, contrary to the rhetoric, there’s an opportunity cost when firms divert resources to unprofitable activities. If these ideas were actually good for profits, firms would undertake them voluntarily.

There’s little evidence this new brand of top-down socialism, whatever it’s label, will result in better economic and social outcomes. Indeed, the answer to many of society’s current problems is less, not more government. We should rely more, not less, on individuals, families, entrepreneurs and businesses to direct the resources of society. History is clear—when we do, we achieve many of the goals espoused by today’s reformers, but with the benefit of a prosperous economy.

 

ArmyRick

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The oil and gas issue, I have suggestions. Oh BTW, I don't PR or market oil and gas so I speak and shoot straight from the hip (like using terms like BS). Let the people in those businesses do it. Wording is a big deal, agreed.

Oil and Gas. The reality as I see it. My OPINION and not facts.
-Canadians are still leaning very heavy on O & G for driving, heating homes, major transportation
-I Believe we have some of the "greenest" practices in Canada for O & G due to what 40-50 years of having their asses kicked? Lets look at what the Middle east standards are. As far as I know, they have zero environmental, work er rights or any other important standards. So if we MUST use gas, where do we get it from?
-Europe is begging to turn the pipes off on Russia. Trudeau, wakey wakey, lets get drilling already.
-Many first nations peoples saw the opportunity in pipelines, lets stop the interference on that already
-Start highlighting the electrical alternatives brutal reality (See Bright Green Lies by Lierre Kieth and a few others, excellent eye opener)

Agreed, good messaging is important.

As far as government jobs, hire an outside consultant. Trim the fat. My experiences when employed in the CAF (and we all agree here on army.ca) is that there is alot of fluff that can go (Cough, cough, HQ personnel, cough, as a start)
 

IKnowNothing

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@ArmyRick - liked for the topic, not agreement

My particulars- raised on a Grey county beef farm, read and loved Allan Savory's holistic management, paid for the early part of my education in the trades, minored in economics, got my MBA while working, VP at a small family owned (not my family) manufacturer that ships across the country by 30. (Not that I'm a particularly interesting or important person, but integrity is big on this board- willing to vet through a mod if my ID is protected)

On PP/ economics - as I put in the Leadership thread, his views and plans to fight inflation are surface level political BS. I broke down his "common cents" plan line by line and won't do so again, but the economic reality is that Justin Trudeau, as much as I dislike the man, did not cause this. There was a global supply side crunch that started hitting manufacturers in early 2021 on many different fronts, and took it's time filtering through levels of the economy as each layer bore what they could before passing prices on. My company has seen since March 2021 (and largely by Sept 2021)
~120% increase in the cost of a 40' Seacan from Europe
~80% increase in the cost of 53' across Canada
~60% increase in plastics raw materials
12-24month wait and ~20% price increase on equipment that used to be OTS

That was before consumer fossil fuel use got back to full bore and we felt the pinch of 3% (if I recall correctly) of US refining capacity shutting down permanently in early 2020, and before that pinch got tightened by Russia's invasion.


That's happening across the board, and impacting every facet of the NA economy. None of that was caused by "Justinflation" and none of Poilievre's BS is going to fix it. Either he knows that, or he doesn't - and I don't know which makes me dislike him as a prospective leader more.

Have more to say, but I actually think it fits better in the Leadership thread.
 

QV

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Interesting discussion Rick. I think one of the issues we suffer from in this Country is that the people championing the Green Energy/Environmentalism lobby aren't actually environmentalists.

They are anti-capitalist/socialists who have successfully managed to use this as a wedge issue.

"Environmentalists" in this Country are more about "sticking it to the man" than they are "saving the environment"
I agree with this notion. Canada has one of the highest environmental standards the world over for O&G. And right now, this country could be the savior of Europe by supplanting Russia's supply of energy. Imagine the benefits that could be funded from the revenue generated by that (need better healthcare anyone?). But Canada is incapable due to internal self-destructive forces.
 

Navy_Pete

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I think the O&G issue is that the division between provincial and federal responsibilities doesn't actually function.

If you look at Norway, they have been really responsible with the proceeds, banked away a massive amount, and have used it to fund systematic changes to their economy to prepare for when the oil is gone. In Canada and the UK, it got pissed away, with no plans for what comes next. Alberta absolutely squandered what they had.

I think the proceeds from O&G needs to be managed cooperatively at a federal and provincial level to specifically plan for what comes next. Personally think we should have an pipeline across the country to create those jobs now, and then start re-investing in things like green energy, new farming practices or other strategic programs which have a massive overlap in skillsets.

Similarly I think if we can invest in harvesting, processing and creating products out of our natural resources it builds business as well as builds in resiliance to the supply chain and prevents things like cargo shipping shortages from becoming critical.

All this takes more government intervention though, not less, and if you look at the NSS and how difficult that was to push through, and how much BS sniping it gets daily, it really takes a lot of will and vision that just doesn't exist. That approach goes basically directly against the stock market drivers to 'maximize shareholder gains', which is easiest to do by relocating overseas. So if we want more programs in Canada, we probably want to ditch a lot of the restrictive contractual terms on things like the NSS, and just accept that the shear fact that the work is being done in Canada will naturally generate a lot of IRBs, vice forcing it artificially (at a large overhead cost).
 

KJK

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Alberta wealth was squandered to be sure but not by the province. How many hundreds of billions of dollars were forcibly removed from the province by the Feds? NEP, transfer payments, 1800 hrs to collect EI in AB while on 400 hrs needed in the Maritimes, the list goes on and on.

Also do you seriously think that if Alberta had managed somehow to build a say 500 billion wealth fund that they would be allowed to keep it? It would never happen. East envy (read quebec and the maritime provinces) would never allow this and the Feds would have found a way to remove it. Just think back to when Chretien came to AB to threaten Ralph Klein with a veto on new oilsands plant construction if he didn't agree to a steep escalator clause in the transfer payments.

I remember how angry the East and the Federal Government was when Imperial Oil had the audacity to move their HQ from Toronto to Calgary. How dare they move all those good paying jobs to Alberta. That temper tantrum told me all I needed to know about how the western provinces are viewed by the east.
 

Remius

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Alberta wealth was squandered to be sure but not by the province. How many hundreds of billions of dollars were forcibly removed from the province by the Feds? NEP, transfer payments, 1800 hrs to collect EI in AB while on 400 hrs needed in the Maritimes, the list goes on and on.

Also do you seriously think that if Alberta had managed somehow to build a say 500 billion wealth fund that they would be allowed to keep it? It would never happen. East envy (read quebec and the maritime provinces) would never allow this and the Feds would have found a way to remove it. Just think back to when Chretien came to AB to threaten Ralph Klein with a veto on new oilsands plant construction if he didn't agree to a steep escalator clause in the transfer payments.

I remember how angry the East and the Federal Government was when Imperial Oil had the audacity to move their HQ from Toronto to Calgary. How dare they move all those good paying jobs to Alberta. That temper tantrum told me all I needed to know about how the western provinces are viewed by the east.
You need to go and research what happened to the Alberta Heritage fund. It did a fair bit of self inflicted damage to itself.



 

ArmyRick

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Carbon tax, Ballooning government spending and much of it squandered (WE scandal and look at the recent heritage funding to the anti-semite mouth piece), Trudeau doing everything he can to block O & G, and we wonder why inflation is horrible?

Justinflation is very real. Change my mind. If you can't see it, Trudeau is a financial and economic wrecking ball.
 

daftandbarmy

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Carbon tax, Ballooning government spending and much of it squandered (WE scandal and look at the recent heritage funding to the anti-semite mouth piece), Trudeau doing everything he can to block O & G, and we wonder why inflation is horrible?

Justinflation is very real. Change my mind. If you can't see it, Trudeau is a financial and economic wrecking ball.

The desires of the average Canadian voter need to be fulfilled too though, and our politicians continually struggle with balancing doing what's right and doing what the voters want, regardless of the party they represent.

And Canadians are quite needy!
 
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Remius

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Carbon tax, Ballooning government spending and much of it squandered (WE scandal and look at the recent heritage funding to the anti-semite mouth piece), Trudeau doing everything he can to block O & G, and we wonder why inflation is horrible?

Justinflation is very real. Change my mind. If you can't see it, Trudeau is a financial and economic wrecking ball.
As mentioned, inflation seems to be a global issue.


More details can be seen here. Strangely, despite “Justinflation” we seem to be facing a bit better than some. Not saying his policies are great but the current state of inflation is beyond Trudeau and no one seems to have a good handle on dealing with it.
 

Brad Sallows

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There's no finessing the fact that increases of the money supply in amounts not commensurate with increases in productivity cause inflation. It's not the only cause. Demand in excess of supply also causes inflation (people go higher on their "bids"). Whether recent excessive spending was worth current and future hardship is debatable, but that it contributed to inflation isn't. People who will receive wage increases in amounts roughly comparable to inflation losses and people with fully or near-fully indexed pensions are living in a different space than people on fixed incomes. We know from history that the division between have-mores and have-lesses can cause considerable friction; the question is whether anyone will apply the lessons. In general, centrally planned and imposed solutions will be inferior to removing restraints on millions of minds applying their own situational awareness to their own opportunities.
 
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KJK

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You need to go and research what happened to the Alberta Heritage fund. It did a fair bit of self inflicted damage to itself.




I am well aware of what happened there but why were they taking money out? Was it because we were funding a good portion of the rest of the country which left us short of money to pay for the things a growing province needed and therefore had to take money out of the Heritage Fund?

As for Justinflation I disagree. Dumping hundreds of billions of borrowed cash into the economy while shutting down said economy. Most people look at the Carbon tax as what they see on their natural gas or power bill and that is it. Unfortunately that is the least of it. Everything in the economy moves by some means: train, truck Amazon van or whatever. This takes fuel and is and will continue contributing greatly to inflation and is a direct result of trudeau's policies.

Complying with the federal net zero for electricity here has driven power prices from $.02-/04/KW in 2016 to nearly $.30/KW (current 30 day rolling average is .$2850 as of now) due to increasing reliance on unreliable 'renewables'. More of trudeau's foolishness and incompetence. We and SK aren't allowed to keep our coal plants running past 2030 but for some reason NS is allowed to keep their's going until 2045.

As for refining in Canada and the US, why would any company put money into increasing the supply when both federal governments have told them they will out of business in 10 years or so?

Also I don't suppose the new fertilizer regulations will have any affect on the cost of food? Justinflation again.

edit for spelling and price conversion
apologies - my math is terrible today
 
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Navy_Pete

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Alberta had an artificially low tax rate with the flat tax for a long time that massively reduced provincial revenues. Didn't stop them for spreading around Ralph bucks at a one time $1.4B cost. The flat tax disproportionately benefited very high earners, who generally have vehicles to shelter income that just don't exist to normal people.

Norway started their fund at the same time and it's worth almost a trillion dollars.

Alberta is actually now getting more from the federal government than it sent in, so actually benefited from the pandemic spending.

For the first time in more than 50 years, Alberta received more money from Ottawa than it sent

For the first time in more than 50 years, Alberta received more money from Ottawa than it sent​


Alberta received roughly $68.5 billion in federal spending in 2020, almost double what it received in 2019


Author of the article:
Tyler Dawson

Publishing date:
Nov 10, 2021 • November 10, 2021 • 3 minute read •
279 Comments
Edmontonians lined up to vote in October municipal elections, which also included a referendum on equalization payments. Photo by David Bloom
Edmontonians lined up to vote in October municipal elections, which also included a referendum on equalization payments. Photo by David Bloom

Article content​


EDMONTON — For the first time in several decades Alberta received more money from the federal government than it sent to Ottawa, according to a new analysis — a nearly unprecedented shift due to a major economic contraction in Canada and astronomical levels of pandemic spending by Ottawa. {more at link}
 

Brad Sallows

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Norway isn't a useful example. It's a country, not a province, and its lower levels of government do not include anything with the scope/responsibility of a state/province.
 

KJK

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Alberta had an artificially low tax rate with the flat tax for a long time that massively reduced provincial revenues. Didn't stop them for spreading around Ralph bucks at a one time $1.4B cost. The flat tax disproportionately benefited very high earners, who generally have vehicles to shelter income that just don't exist to normal people.

Norway started their fund at the same time and it's worth almost a trillion dollars.

Alberta is actually now getting more from the federal government than it sent in, so actually benefited from the pandemic spending.

For the first time in more than 50 years, Alberta received more money from Ottawa than it sent

1-2 years out of 50, Wow, that ought help.

Did you consider that maybe the low tax rate had something to do with the rather impressive growth of the province? For instance if I work OT and the government was going to tax it at say 55% then there isn't much point is there? At 39% it is worth it.

If taxation and regulation lead to riches then shouldn't quebec be the richest province in Canada?
 

Navy_Pete

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1-2 years out of 50, Wow, that ought help.

Did you consider that maybe the low tax rate had something to do with the rather impressive growth of the province? For instance if I work OT and the government was going to tax it at say 55% then there isn't much point is there? At 39% it is worth it.

If taxation and regulation lead to riches then shouldn't quebec be the richest province in Canada

Exploitation of the abundant oil and gas resources lead to impressive growth. Also to 10,000 plus orphan wells that require clean up, with a lot more coming, which Alberta has been looking for federal funding for.

Alberta has definitely been an economic powerhouse, and contributed a lot to the country. Could have been an absolute unit with actual planning, and if they had banked moderate amounts over the last 25 years they would have really built up into a large nest egg. Because of the lack of planning and regulation of the oil producers, the butchers bill is coming due for the cleanup, well after the oil is gone and the companies have gone 'bankrupt' with the profits long gone.

Not against extracting the oil, but if the companies benefitting aren't going to cover the cost of the clean up, the province is being used and abused. If you are going to enjoy the party you should stick around to help pick up the empties.
 

daftandbarmy

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Norway isn't a useful example. It's a country, not a province, and its lower levels of government do not include anything with the scope/responsibility of a state/province.

And it borders on Russia so it's defence posture (unlike ours) reflects that:

 
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