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PMQ's Regulations?

Armymedic said:
Oh, and BTW in the PMQ's rank still reigns. So as a Sgt, I can come over and ask you to sort out your mess. If you don't, being the nice guy I am, I will then tell you, and if you still don't....

I am sure you get the hint.

I'm far from the slobs you are talking about but I really don't see how rank works after hours in civilian ran housing.I know a few years ago the RSM could drive around and give guys shit if their lawns were not cut etc,but a Sgt from another unit coming onto cpl bloggins doorstep to lose it on him in front of his wife and kids?

I'll check the reg's tomorrow at work.

Anyone clarify this?With references?

Oh and by the way I'll just restate I'm not the guy with my car on the front lawn etc.I take a little pride in my dwelling(even though its just a rental.)That said I am married with children. And if some guy after work who I didn't know showed up on my door step barking there would be problems.

The PMQ's here in Gagetown are also not "on"base.All problems out here are dealt with by RCMP.I know in Pet the MP's patrolled but here we are out of their jurisdiction.Gagetown is a little nicer than petawawa,not so many young guys more families than anything on my street.



 
rcac_011 said:
I'm far from the slobs you are talking about but I really don't see how rank works after hours in civilian ran housing.

The PMQ's here in Gagetown are also not "on"base.All problems out here are dealt with by RCMP.I know in Pet the MP's patrolled but here we are out of their jurisdiction.Gagetown is a little nicer than petawawa,not so many young guys more families than anything on my street.

Just a point.  The PMQs are DND property, even if a Civilian organization has been contracted to run them.  They still fall under DND rules and regulations.

The MPs still have jurisdiction in PMQs, but also have agreements with the Civilian authorities to handle non-military matters.  They have washed their hands of things like Domestic Disputes and other crimes committed by Dependents.  As these matters will land up in Civilian Courts, it is easier for the Civilian Police to deal with them.  Don't think that the MPs have no jurisdiction or role in any of those matters.  They do.
 
The MP's here in Gagetown don't even patrol the PMQ's as it is in the town of Oromocto.I know last year in Pet they at least patrolled the southside etc.

I understand how shacks are military housing due to being in unit lines and owned by the RSM.But if the rank system prevails in the "Q's" do I go to the WO on my street and tell him of any problems?No of course not. The proper way to complain about someone would be to go through CFHA and they would pass it on to your unit.I have looked through the CFHA website and have found nothing to agree or disagree,maybe the DIN will have something tomorrow.

Having a housing agency call your work also goes on civilian street.I know in petawawa I lived in Civilian apartments and in my lease it was stated that they could call your employer if problems arises.

Personally I like my peace and quiet here at home.If someones pumping out tunes at 1 in the morning I would proably call or go over.Having said that I think if a snr NCO from the north west pony regiment came over to tell me it was getting time for me to cut my grass a good "go fk yourself" would be in order.CFHA has inspectors who drive around and check these things,it's not the responsibility of your block afterhours rankpuller to do this.

Now I remember petawawa,the fences pasted together with old fridges,chicken wire,and the idiot's in their "too fast too furious" cars blasting hiphop at mach 3 speeds.I understand the frustration.

Does this mean a plq qualified cpl can put a trooper at attention in front of his family on his front lawn....I think not.Can someone clarify this with a reference to the personal rights of a tenent on CFHA leased property? I think the harassment thing would surley pop out if this happened.

I believe CFHA can evict pers who dont follow rules and regulations so complain to them.Keeps you from looking like a idoit,and puts things on paper with the civilians who run the company for admistrative action in the future.

cheers
 
Armymedic said:
Oh, and BTW in the PMQ's rank still reigns. So as a Sgt, I can come over and ask you to sort out your mess. If you don't, being the nice guy I am, I will then tell you, and if you still don't....

....then there is nothing you can do, and you will get a door slammed in your face.

This is no different than a Veh Tech Sgt coming over and telling me to get an oil change on my leased truck. I'd tell him to pi$$ off too. 








 
That's what MFRC and bylaws and MP's are for, not Sgt's etc.  We have had cars ticketed by the MP's for being on the grass because it violates Base Standing Orders.
 
I have to agree with that also,......as a renter I have rights in regards to the property.....sorry my friend but I would tell you to hoop your forehead also. [ in such a nice way of course that you think its a compliment] ;)
 
rcac_011 said:
I'm far from the slobs you are talking about but I really don't see how rank works after hours in civilian ran housing.I know a few years ago the RSM could drive around and give guys shit if their lawns were not cut etc,but a Sgt from another unit coming onto cpl bloggins doorstep to lose it on him in front of his wife and kids?

I'll check the reg's tomorrow at work.

Anyone clarify this?With references?
This is IRT garbage left out and other health concerns. I could care less about your veh.
No references required. I find out your name and unit from the Base nominal role, and I phone your Seargent Major. And I don't "lose it" on anyone. I speak clearly in an low voice. If you can't get the hint from that...

And here in Petawawa, it has been done, and does work.

Oh, and the NDA/QR&O's etc work 24/7. Also the Base Commander/RSM still "owns" the PMQ areas. Disgusting piles of garbage will still elicit a poor responce from him (as it has in the past here in Petawawa).

 
Well, if my RSM got a phone call from a Sgt in unit X about my garbage cans, I would hope he would politely field your complaint.  Then I would hope that he would phone the RSM of unit X, and tell him that one of his senior NCOs was using his rank as a club in the PMQ patch.  I have seen the rank hammer backfire big time in regard to PMQ politics.
 
Armymedic said:
This is IRT garbage left out and other health concerns. I could care less about your veh.
No references required. I find out your name and unit from the Base nominal role, and I phone your Seargent Major. And I don't "lose it" on anyone. I speak clearly in an low voice. If you can't get the hint from that...

And here in Petawawa, it has been done, and does work.

Oh, and the NDA/QR&O's etc work 24/7. Also the Base Commander/RSM still "owns" the PMQ areas. Disgusting piles of garbage will still elicit a poor responce from him (as it has in the past here in Petawawa).

Well I don't think rank in general would matter at all.If myself as a cpl was sick of a Sgt who defecated on his front lawn daily I could also use my chain of command to get the same effect.But as I alluded to earlier it would be much more professional to inform CFHA who regulates the rules.Also CFHA could keep a record of past incidents and take action to remove the person from the quarters.

I know here in Gagetown a few years back one of the ssm wanted to inspect his guys PMQ's and was shut down by CFHA.He had no right to do so.(Someone who was in that squadron can expand on that).

I just don't see how people get off pulling rank after work.And why would you bring yourself into someone Else's problems by phoning the rsm of that said pers?Why not call CFHA and let them do it? Maybe you get pdr points I'm not aware of?

And as I said earlier seeming you want to pull rank in the PMQ's next time my basement floods at 3h00 I'll come wake you up,I couldn't possibly call CFHA as you being the "Block Sgt" would need to for me,using chain of command and all.

 
Armymedic said:
Oh, and BTW in the PMQ's rank still reigns. So as a Sgt, I can come over and ask you to sort out your mess. If you don't, being the nice guy I am, I will then tell you, and if you still don't....

I am sure you get the hint.

I think in some cases living next door to a slob can be as much of a pain in the ass than living next door to someone who takes himself extremely seriously...  ::)
 
Cybelle24 said:
I think in some cases living next door to a slob can be as much of a pain in the ass than living next door to someone who takes himself extremely seriously...  ::)

Aye, Lassie, if you only knew.

You're not the one who has to move beer cans, ripped open garbage bags and strewn cardboard off the sidewalk so that thier kids can ride thier bikes.
 
Personally I go through the CFHA with my concerns and report it all....after a one time friendly approach of course.

I've had everything from drug users to 18 somethings partying it up and tearing up the Q's.

Sooner or later the kids, and that's what they are because they take no responsibility for their actions, get punted out of the PMQs.

If they don't act, I just wait for an opportunity to ask some questions directly to the Base or Brigade Commander as to why.

Normally it gets sorted out....and rather quickly.

I just call the cops for anything else....seing as the MPs are pretty much impotent when it comes to domestic problems (no offence meant)

Regards
 
Armymedic said:
Aye, Lassie, if you only knew.

You're not the one who has to move beer cans, ripped open garbage bags and strewn cardboard off the sidewalk so that thier kids can ride thier bikes.

My point is simply that CFHA and the MPs are there to take care of that kind of problems. It's their job. I can't see how flaunting your rank in you neighbours' faces to try 'n make them obey could be a good solution. I don't think it would accomplish anything except pissing them off and making them even more uncooperative. Arrogance isn't the best way to get results.
 
Cybelle24 said:
My point is simply that CFHA and the MPs are there to take care of that kind of problems. It's their job.

I would also recommend people seeking help from their PMQ town council.

Our Q's in Belmont Park had a town council that assisted in sorting out disputes.
It was on a volunteer basis with the president being a CF member and the other volunteers being any resident(I was a council member for over a year), and I know the council helped out on more than just a few serious dispute issues. If your PMQ's don't have a coucil, maybe ltalk to CFHA about starting one.

When that doesn't work, go to CFHA, and when that doesn't work, go higher....someone will make things right(other than Mike Holmes).

No matter where you live, you still have poeple who do not take pride in their appearance, be it their home(rented or not) or their personal appearance. The key is to MAKE them. We had some very sloppy neighbours and once I started just taking care of my side of the duplex(mowing my side of the lawn, gardening, sanding and painting the railings etc) they began too. Once we moved out though, all heck broke loose and their Q looked like it belonged in a junk yard.

Some people may require more of a firm hand in getting with game.
 
Cybelle24 said:
My point is simply that CFHA and the MPs are there to take care of that kind of problems. It's their job.
Garbage is hardly a MP issue. And CFHA doesn't seem to care too much about garbage and containers blowing around the Q's. So if they don't, who do you expect has to deal with it?

I can't see how flaunting your rank in you neighbours' faces to try 'n make them obey could be a good solution. I don't think it would accomplish anything except pissing them off and making them even more uncooperative. Arrogance isn't the best way to get results.
I see where our misunderstanding is....I would not flaunt it. I have lived here for several yrs, most around here know who I am. As I said earlier, I would ask.

Something along the line of, "Hi, I live just up the row from you. That pile of garbage in front of you Q is a big mess. Think you could sort that out before it all blows around, please?"
then it would be.... Hi I am Sgt XXXX from up the row, I talked to you a couple days ago about your garbage. Please sort it out.
Of course, if its the mom of 3 with her husband overseas, then I would be more then happy to help her out.....But chances are, the 2 dozen beer cans are not hers.

You don't get anywhere fast by being an ass. And you know...for most responsible people, just asking them to clean up is enough.
 
Garbage is hardly a MP issue. And CFHA doesn't seem to care too much about garbage and containers blowing around the Q's. So if they don't, who do you expect has to deal with it?

I have friends who live in Valcartier's PMQs and they had the same kind of problems you had with their neighbours, and they didn't need to settle it themselves. They just went to CFHA and told them what the situation was, and CFHA took care of it.

I see where our misunderstanding is....I would not flaunt it. I have lived here for several yrs, most around here know who I am. As I said earlier, I would ask.

Something along the line of, "Hi, I live just up the row from you. That pile of garbage in front of you Q is a big mess. Think you could sort that out before it all blows around, please?"
then it would be.... Hi I am Sgt XXXX from up the row, I talked to you a couple days ago about your garbage. Please sort it out.
Of course, if its the mom of 3 with her husband overseas, then I would be more then happy to help her out.....But chances are, the 2 dozen beer cans are not hers.

If that's your attitude then it's perfect, but in your previous post you sounded like the kind of guy who would come up to his neighbour and tell him something like "Hey, I'm a Sgt and you're just a stupid Cpl so you better clean your yard when I tell you to or else I'll put you in trouble". Maybe that's not what you meant at all but I've got to tell you, you really sounded that arrogant. And the proof is the strong reaction you got from a couple of members (including me). But hey, if that's not what you meant and it's just a misunderstanding, it's okay.

You don't get anywhere fast by being an ***. And you know...for most responsible people, just asking them to clean up is enough.

That's exactly what I've been saying all along  ;D.
 
Fusilier said:
Westcorp took over the base and PMQ's that were condemed by CE are now being rented for $1000.00 a month.

Elisha said:
I have to correct someone in saying that the PMQ in Griesbach are not renting for $1000 per month.  You can rent some PMQ's here (row houses) for about $600 or so a month and then a single 2 bedroom for about $700 a month and then is goes a little higher for the larger styles of Q. 

You are both correct.

All the old PMQ's on Griesbach are all now owned by Westcorp. However part of the purchase agreement between Westcorp and DND/Canada Lands was that Westcorp wasn't allowed to kick out any current Members that were living in the PMQ's under CFHA.

Westcorp was allowed to have the empty PMQs immediately for civilian rentals and as CF Members moved out they would take over the remaining houses.

So there are two types of rentals at Griesbach. CFHA PMQ's that go for the $600-700 and Westcorp townhouses (old PMQ's that are mostly filled with military) that are not governed by CFHA that go for $1000-1200. The military members that are with Westcorp usually are members who wouldn't qualify for a PMQ under CFHA ie. a bunch of single members living together.

All new incoming residents are supposed to be slotted into Lancaster Park as CFHA is supposed to be handing over the homes in Griesbach to Westcorp.

Here is the interesting part...some Members have rented a Westcorp house on the civilian market for $1000-1200 and then claim they need a PMQ for whatever sad story and wrangled CFHA to agree and forced Westcorp into switching over it over to a CFHA PMQ. Not sure but I've heard it happening about 4 times now. Anyone have more info?

So your both correct...you can be side by side on the old Griesbach base in the same house and be paying very different rent!

I don't know about the claim that CE condemned the houses that Westcorp is now renting. I would think that if a house was bad enough for CE to condemn that Westcorp wouldn't legally be able to rent it.

Westcorp doesn't have the houses because they were condemned, they have them cause they purchased that portion of the base from Canada Lands/DND.

And if your reading this from somewhere else and you are getting posted in, you might consider living elsewhere...

Because you will most likely end up living on the edge of one of the largest and most exciting redevelopment projects in the city (READ CONSTANT CONSTRUCTION). Few people living there care about their properties because as soon as Westcorp takes over all the old PMQ's they will be tearing them all down (they have already started). Alot of houses are half falling down and have smashed windows and doors.

Don't get me wrong, some people really care for their places and it shows. Many people really like it because it is excellent in terms of location.

Just don't plan on living there long-term or expect too much if you do choose to live there.

Lancaster Park is fine place to live if you want to do the PMQ or rental route.

However, if you can afford it, buy a house/condo instead. Costs for houses in Edmonton have risen alot in the past 5 years but overall it still has some of the least expensive real estate in the country...




 
when we lived in griesbach, even after it went to westcorp, we still fell under the dnd regulations.

angela
 
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