Pilot/Engineer Officer Dilemma

[Gunshark]

I'm in my late 30s and in better physical shape than many of the RMC "kids" I OJT with. I am absolutely in better shape than I was when I was 25. There is no real reason your health will "decline" in your 30s if you actively, intelligently stay fit over the course of your life (outside of disease or freak injury something). Many elite athletes peak in their early 30s.

The biggest stumbling block will probably be "Do I really want to put up with this crap anymore?" Starting over at the bottom is a bit of a challenge.

Your AEC term doesn't expire - if you aren't a complete screwup you should be able to continue on a couple of different contract terms until mandatory retirement if you so choose. No one will say, "This guy wants to be a pilot so we won't offer him further terms of service..."

Gotcha. Good input.

I get the feeling though that it's harder to transfer occupations once you're in, as compared to applying from the civy street. So I can effectively deny my goal to someday fly if I accept another job offer. Is there truth to this? And I understand that a lot of people will advise to follow the dream from the get-go, which is sound advice. I am just considering the option of broadening my collective expertise and experience/adventure through another additional trade.

When you say "start at the bottom", do you mean just in terms of training? Will my rank/pay/status carry over?

Is it common for CF members to have been involved in two or more trades throughout their careers?

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[dimsum]

Gotcha. Good input.

I get the feeling though that it's harder to transfer occupations once you're in, as compared to applying from the civy street. So I can effectively deny my goal to someday fly if I accept another job offer. Is there truth to this? And I understand that a lot of people will advise to follow the dream from the get-go, which is sound advice. I am just considering the option of broadening my collective expertise and experience/adventure through another additional trade.

When you say "start at the bottom", do you mean just in terms of training? Will my rank/pay/status carry over?

Is it common for CF members to have been involved in two or more trades throughout their careers?

Thanks again, everyone.

A few things that you may be mixing up regarding ACSO career/training:

- ACSOs have a 4-year restricted release post-wings.  Effectively, that means you can't leave for 4 years AFTER you get your wings; with the wait times for BMOQ, 1 CFFTS and such, it's probably closer to 6-7 years by the time you are done that time.  It's possible (though highly rare) to get an occupational transfer within that time as well.  Afterwards, it's easier but by no means easy (or guaranteed).

- Regarding the "AEC exam", are you sure you didn't mean the ACSO exam that you take in Trenton?  And yes, ACSOs do travel lots, dependent on platform. 

If you end up following this route and switch to Pilot later, you keep your pay and most often your rank/seniority.  In my case (MARS to ACSO), I jumped up 2 IPCs (essentially yearly seniority levels).  That being said, I wouldn't suggest applying for another trade to "try it out" before applying to be a Pilot.  If you want it bad enough, reapply after a year.

 

[Gunshark]

A few things that you may be mixing up regarding ACSO career/training:

- ACSOs have a 4-year restricted release post-wings.  Effectively, that means you can't leave for 4 years AFTER you get your wings; with the wait times for BMOQ, 1 CFFTS and such, it's probably closer to 6-7 years by the time you are done that time.  It's possible (though highly rare) to get an occupational transfer within that time as well.  Afterwards, it's easier but by no means easy (or guaranteed).

- Regarding the "AEC exam", are you sure you didn't mean the ACSO exam that you take in Trenton?  And yes, ACSOs do travel lots, dependent on platform. 

If you end up following this route and switch to Pilot later, you keep your pay and most often your rank/seniority.  In my case (MARS to ACSO), I jumped up 2 IPCs (essentially yearly seniority levels).  That being said, I wouldn't suggest applying for another trade to "try it out" before applying to be a Pilot.  If you want it bad enough, reapply after a year.

Thanks. I got a piece of paper in Trenton that says I met the standard for AEC. Then we had a presentation on aerospace control and went on a tour to the control tower. No references were made to ACSOs. I'm assuming it was all about aerospace control. Did I miss something?

If I sign on for a trade, it would definitely be because of interest, and I would try to perform the duties to the best of my abilities. My motivation would not be to use it as means to get closer to Pilot, but rather to learn another trade, expand my skillset. I may no longer wish for pilot later. But I'd like to leave myself with that option. My only question is whether it's harder to land pilot while already in military vs applying from the street. Because if I potentially deny myself the chance of ever flying, that might affect my decision.

Thank you.

 

[shogun506]

A few things that you may be mixing up regarding ACSO career/training:

- ACSOs have a 4-year restricted release post-wings.  Effectively, that means you can't leave for 4 years AFTER you get your wings; with the wait times for BMOQ, 1 CFFTS and such, it's probably closer to 6-7 years by the time you are done that time.  It's possible (though highly rare) to get an occupational transfer within that time as well.  Afterwards, it's easier but by no means easy (or guaranteed).

- Regarding the "AEC exam", are you sure you didn't mean the ACSO exam that you take in Trenton?  And yes, ACSOs do travel lots, dependent on platform. 

If you end up following this route and switch to Pilot later, you keep your pay and most often your rank/seniority.  In my case (MARS to ACSO), I jumped up 2 IPCs (essentially yearly seniority levels).  That being said, I wouldn't suggest applying for another trade to "try it out" before applying to be a Pilot.  If you want it bad enough, reapply after a year.

Hold on, ACSOs get wings? Are they just representative of their navigation skills or do they actually fly?

 

[Good2Golf]

Pilots, ACSOs, AESOPS, AECs, AC OPs, Flight Engineers, Load Masters and Flight Stewards all get wings.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

And SAR Techs.

Hold on, ACSOs get wings? Are they just representative of their navigation skills or do they actually fly?

I hope you meant that jokingly.  If not... :facepalm:

ACSO's fly in the LRP, MH, EW and Herc communities. 

http://va3kgb.ve3kbr.com/forces/air_trade_badges.htm

 

[Good2Golf]

And SAR Techs.

Those too. 

 

[MAJONES]

If you are really keen to get into the CF I'd suggest going ACSO.  The experience you get there will help you in pilot training if you decide to change trades later.  Working as a combat engineer or an AEC will not help you in pilot training.

 

[dimsum]

And SAR Techs.

I hope you meant that jokingly.  If not... :facepalm:

ACSO's fly in the LRP, MH, EW and Herc communities. 

http://va3kgb.ve3kbr.com/forces/air_trade_badges.htm

And UAVs, if we get them (seemingly subject to the whims of TB, RCAF, NDP, NATO, KGB and LMNOP.) 

 

[dimsum]

Thanks. I got a piece of paper in Trenton that says I met the standard for AEC. Then we had a presentation on aerospace control and went on a tour to the control tower. No references were made to ACSOs. I'm assuming it was all about aerospace control. Did I miss something?

No, you're correct. 

 

[PanaEng]

Pilots, ACSOs, AESOPS, AECs, AC OPs, Flight Engineers, Load Masters and Flight Stewards all get wings.

Basic Para get some wings too.... (nicer ones IMHO ;-)

 

[Good2Golf]

Basic Para get some wings too.... (nicer ones IMHO ;-)

Self-loading meatbags aren't aircrew, though (...he said, having meatbagged himself, outside the CF  ...) 

We were discussing folks who use things with wings, vice trying to get out of things with wings.  ;D

Regards
G2G

 

[Journeyman]

Self-loading meatbags aren't aircrew, though...

The more pilots I know, the more I like getting out the back.
But then, pilots are merely commissioned bus-drivers, whose job is to get us to work.   

  Oh, and CF astronauts get wings too.....you know, as another option if it's just about the badges.

 

[Good2Golf]

But then, pilots are merely commissioned bus-drivers, whose job is to get us to work.   

  :-*

 

[Gunshark]

Thank you for your input guys. After more thought, I am leaning towards just reapplying for Pilot again in a year, if I am still yearning for it. Other trades do interest me as well, but I don't want to put myself in a position where I'll be unhappy in a trade, regretting I didn't retry for the original choice. This seems to coincide with the general advice on here as well, and I do understand why.

However, I am still interested in the Air Force from different perspectives as well. I wanted to ask you guys if it is a possibility to join the Reserves for AEC, for example, while I await to reapply as RegF Pilot. This could get me introduced to the CF potentially sooner, with Basic Training completed sooner etc. Is there a minimum contract for the Reserves? Would I be able to apply for Pilot from the Reserves in a year, or another period of time that is shorter compared to applying only after 4-5 years for occupation transfer if I took up a RefF trade? Would it make my application process somehow more difficult if I'm already in the Reserves as opposed to applying from civy street?

Thanks a lot. As always, appreciate the feedback.

 

[PuckChaser]

Joining the reserves to immediately turn around and join the RegF is not the "backdoor" into the CF. Don't waste the reserves training time and money, just apply to the RegF. Moving into the RegF from the reserves can sometimes take longer than joining off the street, and do you want to run the risk of having to do basic training twice?

Seriously, you've made it very clear want to be a pilot in the RegF. Wait the year, get your PPL and apply again. If you fail the ACS again, maybe pilot isn't for you and then you can worry about finding another trade that you'll like. Trying to find another way in while you're waiting that year is either going to blow up in your face, or waste a lot of people's time and effort.

 

[Gunshark]

Joining the reserves to immediately turn around and join the RegF is not the "backdoor" into the CF. Don't waste the reserves training time and money, just apply to the RegF. Moving into the RegF from the reserves can sometimes take longer than joining off the street, and do you want to run the risk of having to do basic training twice?

Seriously, you've made it very clear want to be a pilot in the RegF. Wait the year, get your PPL and apply again. If you fail the ACS again, maybe pilot isn't for you and then you can worry about finding another trade that you'll like. Trying to find another way in while you're waiting that year is either going to blow up in your face, or waste a lot of people's time and effort.

My intention would not be to use anyone or anything as a "backdoor" to a Pilot career. But rather to join the CF sooner and get accustomed to military life, learn a relevant trade and become a well-rounded member, and then down the road hopefully become a more educated, effective, well-rounded Pilot.

But your point is understood. It is probably true that instead of what I've described, this can just become a complicated and frustrating method of joining the CF, one which could become wasteful of people's time and money.

I am pretty sure at this point that I will wait a year, work on my PPL and on my application, and try again next year. Thank you everyone for their insight.

 

[DAA]

At the end of the day, the old saying of "Soldier first, tradesmen later" always comes into play.  Some people dislike their job for whatever reason, while some just dislike the "environment" in which their job takes place.

The later of which is universal.....  So the first question anyone should ask themselves is "Do I want to be a member of the Armed Forces?" and then "What occupation would I like to pursue?"  Not vice versa.

 

[dimsum]

I echo DAA's thoughts, and will add that unlike the Army and Naval Reserve, you can't join the Air Reserve for trades such as AEC, etc.  Generally speaking, the Air Reserve is for people who were ex-Reg Force (even Pilots), so your plan wouldn't really work.

Waiting a year and reapplying is the best way to go.

 

[Gunshark]

Thanks, these are very good points. My primary reasons to want to join are to serve my country and help protect people, the teamwork, the challenge, the honour, the training. While I do believe in "soldier first, tradesman second" dogma, I believe that the members are of most value to the Force when they serve in the trade they enjoy and are good at, so that their morale is at their highest. So while I think that wanting to serve in the first place is the most important thing, I also think there is good sense in going after the trade of your choice, and if that plan falls through, then deciding what other trades interest you and going after those. In any case, these are big life decisions that deserve putting good thought into before making them, and I appreciate the advice you've been providing so far.