PERs : All issues questions...2003-2019

[Halifax Tar]

That would be a great thing if it was used more but it is used infrequently enough that in almost 20 years of service I have seen it done twice and never for anything good.

I argue against this method.  The 5B is not meant for corrective action.  That is what the IC is for.  The 5B is meant for areas of a members profression that needs to be improved. 

 

[TCM621]

I argue against this method.  The 5B is not meant for corrective action.  That is what the IC is for.  The 5B is meant for areas of a members profression that needs to be improved.

I just know how little will get done if you don't mandate it. For ever person who uses the system to its fullest,  you have 10 who only do what their CoC forces them to.

We have a very small military,  it takes forever and a day to replace a trained member and we consistently ask the world of our people. It is in the best interests of the military to provide ample opportunity from personal development.  Sadly, the formal development system is often the only one used therefore it must be robust and as in depth as possible without becoming a burden to the CoC.

I liked the idea of quarterly assessments with the 4 one being an annual assessment. I think it is still reasonable to provide write ups on all personnel if we set realistic guidelines. A brand new corporal doesn't need the entire performance and potential sections filled up completely. However,  even the newest corporal could have a short blurb detailing his situation. For example,  "Cpl Bloggins was recently promoted to Cpl.  Since his promotion he has been actively learning his new duties." Cpl Bloggins leadership potential is on par with a newly promoted Cpl. He is beginning to search for opportunities to lead. "

 

[PuckChaser]

I argue against this method.  The 5B is not meant for corrective action.  That is what the IC is for.  The 5B is meant for areas of a members profression that needs to be improved.

What's wrong with a 5B for something sufficiently minor? Sometimes you get a guy that needs to be set straight but doesn't warrant climbing the IC chain. You can also use the 5A for attaboy comments as well, I've told my MCpls to write some of those almost as many as 5Bs. If it's good enough for you to brag to me how good your Cpl did something, it's good enough to write down so it makes it into the PER.

 

[MJP]

I argue against this method.  The 5B is not meant for corrective action.  That is what the IC is for.  The 5B is meant for areas of a members progression that needs to be improved.

Whoa!  I know what you are saying but an IC an an administrative action that is essentially saying do this a few more times and you could be released.  A 5B is a non-permanent way of formalizing that you sucked at or did something bad and here is how to do better.  If the action or deficiencies is severe enough then yes remedial measures are the way to go, but aren't the first stop IMHO.

That would be a great thing if it was used more but it is used infrequently enough that in almost 20 years of service I have seen it done twice and never for anything good.

It is fairly common vernacular in the Western third of the field force.  Posted to 3 units in the past 2 years and in all of them it was a fairly common occurrence. 

 

[BinRat55]

In the Log world here the highers give out the overall score. They don't tell you what bubble is ES or S or NI but they tell you how many of each he or she gets. There is no debate with them.

I'm sorry but I have been in the Log world 26 years. Been writing PERs for the past 16. I was give a number to draft against only once in my career, and that was with a combat arms unit. So as there are many facets of Logistics it does not happen in the Supply world. I have fought for specific overall scores and got beat out fair and square, won a few times but the was a board to debate this on.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Well come to Shilo then. Because they tell you how many of each the member gets. You're given the privilege of placing the bubbles where though. This way each rank fits there overall plan

 

[BinRat55]

Hmmmm... Shilo you say? Double hmmmm (insert chin-scratch / narrowed eyes here...)

There Their "overall" plan begins at the lowest level possible. Ammo is an extremely small trade compared to Supply or RMS maybe it just seems that way?

See what I did there?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Hmmmm... Shilo you say? Double hmmmm (insert chin-scratch / narrowed eyes here...)

There Their "overall" plan begins at the lowest level possible. Ammo is an extremely small trade compared to Supply or RMS maybe it just seems that way?

See what I did there?

The Ranks are all competing with each other as a whole as well as trade specific.

 

[GreenMarine]

Reading over the reg's, orders and this thread.

I have two questions!

1. Anyone have a referance or imput on who is suppose to write a members PER?

I myself have been farmed around, attached here, deployed there, TD somewhere and finally just told to report to my current task by my last Coxn.

As far as I'm aware the person responsible is the supervisor as of March 31th, however given turn overs both for myself and the new supervisor. He'll would only have about a month over me when March comes, unless I'm farmed out again.

2. Is there a option that another person (like passed supervisor ) can write the PER, based on more time with member?

I'm also trying to contact my home unit, to verifly or answer these question but as of yet have heard nothing.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Are you on the BTL (i.e. still 'untrained') in your new MOC [I recall you remustered].

If you haven't completed QL3 yet, the short answer is you should receive a PER Exemption.  If you are QL3 quald, the unit you are posted to is responsible for your PER (according to the Help File) and should seek input from the various units you've worked for to write your PER with.

 

[BinRat55]

Are you on the BTL (i.e. still 'untrained') in your new MOC [I recall you remustered].

If you haven't completed QL3 yet, the short answer is you should receive a PER Exemption.  If you are QL3 quald, the unit you are posted to is responsible for your PER (according to the Help File) and should seek input from the various units you've worked for to write your PER with.

EIT - I think GreenMarine is referring to himself (or another) as the drafter, not the reciever...

 

[BinRat55]

Reading over the reg's, orders and this thread.

I have two questions!

1. Anyone have a referance or imput on who is suppose to write a members PER?

I myself have been farmed around, attached here, deployed there, TD somewhere and finally just told to report to my current task by my last Coxn.

As far as I'm aware the person responsible is the supervisor as of March 31th, however given turn overs both for myself and the new supervisor. He'll would only have about a month over me when March comes, unless I'm farmed out again.

2. Is there a option that another person (like passed supervisor ) can write the PER, based on more time with member?

I'm also trying to contact my home unit, to verifly or answer these question but as of yet have heard nothing.

According to CFPAS:

"...where it is in the best interest of the CF, the units and person involved to have the PER written by the employing unit and not the parent unit..."

In actual fact, you would not find it written anywhere the exact answer you are searching for because on the PER form it says in Part 4 (rated by Supervisor) and in part 5 (rated by Reviewing Officer). I have always written my direct subordinates and had them write their subs (depending... Cpls do NOT write PERs. But they can certainly draft for a review as practice) And as you stated, if they (or I) were the supervisor at the time, then the responsibility should lie there but I always seek  the assistance of those who have spent the most time with the member. A fair and honest assessment is warranted and you can't write what you don't know. If previous supervisors were really good with PDRs then that's have the battle.

But I implore you (and anyone else drafting a PER / PDR) grammar, punctuation and structure is paramount!

For realsies!

 

[GreenMarine]

Sorry Yes I should of clarified, I would be the reciever, and as a CPL/LS with 10 years in Rank this is the first time I've come into a PER season where my supervisor has had little time over me.

However that said I suppose I could pick apart ther Review and ask for examples as well as provide some when it comes to points that I dont agree with.

 

[BinRat55]

Sorry Yes I should of clarified, I would be the reciever, and as a CPL/LS with 10 years in Rank this is the first time I've come into a PER season where my supervisor has had little time over me.

However that said I suppose I could pick apart ther Review and ask for examples as well as provide some when it comes to points that I dont agree with.

Ahhh... I sit corrected.

In that case (everything I stated earlier still applies) you can help yourself by keeping (and giving) copies of your past PDRs to your (now present) supervisor. A detailed part 3 would be quite handy as well.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Sorry Yes I should of clarified, I would be the reciever, and as a CPL/LS with 10 years in Rank this is the first time I've come into a PER season where my supervisor has had little time over me.

However that said I suppose I could pick apart ther Review and ask for examples as well as provide some when it comes to points that I dont agree with.

I know you did an OT recently;  are you trained QL3 or above yet in your new MOC?  It changes things if you have, or have not completed trg yet.

- if you are not QL3 qual'd, or OFP as defined by your trade, then technically you are on the BTL (Basic Training List) still.  IAW CFPAS, mbr's on the BTL (including OTs) do not receive a PER, they receive a PER Exemption. 

 

[GreenMarine]

I know you did an OT recently;  are you trained QL3 or above yet in your new MOC?  It changes things if you have, or have not completed trg yet.

- if you are not QL3 qual'd, or OFP as defined by your trade, then technically you are on the BTL (Basic Training List) still.  IAW CFPAS, mbr's on the BTL (including OTs) do not receive a PER, they receive a PER Exemption.

3's, 4's and OFP... waiting on my 5's but that said Career Manager Omitted given my total time in even a Low Ready may Merit me.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

In that case, unless things have changed the unit you are posted to is responsible to write your PER, and to solicit feedback from the places you were employed for PER 'meat'.

Might be worth while to check the current CFPAS help file for updated info.

 

[armyvern]

Well come to Shilo then. Because they tell you how many of each the member gets. You're given the privilege of placing the bubbles where though. This way each rank fits there overall plan

F'n army. 

 

[armyvern]

I argue against this method.  The 5B is not meant for corrective action.  That is what the IC is for.  The 5B is meant for areas of a members profression that needs to be improved.

5Bs and IC, RW, C&P can be done jointly and/or independant of themselves and are 100% acceptable.

5Bs are better utilized to deal with corrective points on matters that do not warrant tracking for the entirety of a member's career (and they were done frequently at the last Unit we served in together ... in our own Tp even).

 

[Halifax Tar]

5Bs and IC, RW, C&P can be done jointly and/or independant of themselves and are 100% acceptable.

5Bs are better utilized to deal with corrective points on matters that do not warrant tracking for the entirety of a member's career (and they were done frequently at the last Unit we served in together ... in our own Tp even).

Absolutely I remember them being done.  I am simply of the opinion that the 5B is the "lazy" way to take corrective action.  And I am the opinion that 5Bs are meant for professional development and to point out areas of one profession that should be improved on in order to succeed and grow. 

Behavior, Conduct and Discipline failures, while professional failings as well, should be addressed through the IC, RW, C&P process as I this is what it is designed for and is under utilized.  Too many shit pumps have just been passed along without the proper admin action being taken which has led to a continued waste of rations on people who should be dealt with. 

Sometime we get to share a table at the Sgts&WOs again I will tell you of the last little misguided sailor we had