Pay: Statements, Backpay, Benefits, Deductions (Taxes, T4), Deployed ect... [MERGED]

[AverageJoe]

thank you for the quick response I'll try to talk to the pay officer people although right now I don't think I have one cuz Im attach posted to a reserve unit for a next little while.

 

[dapaterson]

thank you for the quick response I'll try to talk to the pay officer people although right now I don't think I have one cuz Im attach posted to a reserve unit for a next little while.

Whatever support base support the REserve unit should be able to look at your pay file and let you know what's going on.

 

[SupersonicMax]

While we are on the pilot pay topic...

I was promoted to 2Lt from Ocdt on 1 May 06.  Got my wings on 25 Jul 08.  That gives me 1 year and a bit of back pay to Lt GSO.  Right now, I'm paid Lt GSO, even though I'm qualified pilot and my promotion message says LT PLT pay scale.  Now, I know there are 3 conditions to be met to get the Lt PLT pay.

204.2156(1) (Application) This instruction applies to a pilot in the rank of lieutenant or second lieutenant who:
(a) is qualified in the flying of aircraft to the standard established in orders or instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff;
(b) was appointed to the rank of officer cadet or enrolled as a Direct Entry Officer on or before 30 September 1998; and
(c) has successfully completed the Regular Officer Training Plan, the University Training Plan (Non-commissioned Members), the Officer Candidate Training Plan (No Former Service and Former Service) or the Special Requirements Commissioning Plan.

I understand I meet 1 & 3 but not 2 (I was enrolled as an Ocdt on 17 jun 00). However, why is there that condition for Lts but not for Capts and up??

Max

 

[dapaterson]

In a word, grandfathering.  Those who were in before the rules changed are protected, but from that date forward only Capts and up get pilot pay.  That's my read of the CBI, at least.  Not certain about the background to that decision - perhaps someone with more of a flight background than me can shed light on it?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Thanks for the informative answer dapaterson.  Where could I find information on how they came up with that condition?  Would there be a CANFORGEN (or something similiar) to explain it (issued when the ammendment was done, I assume in... 1998)?

To me, it doesn't make any difference wether you're a Lt or a Capt.  You are qualified in your trade and your trade.  But maybe someone up there thinks it makes a difference...!

Max

 

[armyvern]

But maybe someone up there thinks it makes a difference...!

Apparently so ... or the difference wouldn't exist.  >

It was based upon this original change via CANFORGEN 099/98 Sept 98:

099/98 281054Z SEP 98 ADM(HR-Mil) REVISED PAY RATES - 1 OCT 98 - GENERAL SERVICE OFFICERS (GSO) INCLUDING PILOTS - LCOLS AND BELOW, MEDICAL AND DENTAL LTS AND 2LTS OF THE REGULAR AND RESERVE FORCE

 

[SupersonicMax]

ArmyVern. Thanks!  Do you have a copy of what CANFORGEN 099/08 says or is that all it says (ie: no explaination, just the new tables)?

 

[dapaterson]

Max:  You are not qualified for employment in trade as a military pilot; there are still many folks who thunder in having gotten their wings.  You are still a student.  Paying you extra when you're not employable isn't something done in many fields.  Until you can be employed in trade, there is no reason for the CF to pay you extra.

There may be a CANFORGEN out on this, or possibly some other policy document - I'd check the 1 CAD website on the DIN as one location for background.  But compensation decisions such as this are not made lightly.  Generally, such a change would have involved consultation with the Air Force, then processed through staff in CMP, and finally presented to Treasury Board for approval.  People who were brought in under the old policy had their rates of pay protected; that is what their enrollment promised them.  New people, brought in under new terms, will have their new terms respected.  You are covered under CBI 204.211.  .

 

[SupersonicMax]

dapaterson:  I was in no way sarcastic and really thought your post was informative. 

All other Capt that got their wings the same day I did got their Pilot pay right away.  I am qualified in my trade (pilot).  You do not need to be in a flying position to get pilot pay (ground tour guys get the pilot pay, but not the environment allowance).

I'm sorry you took the last post as sarcastic.  It was in no way my intent to come across that way and I was actually serious.

Cheers

Max

 

[armyvern]

ArmyVern. Thanks!  Do you have a copy of what CANFORGEN 099/08 says or is that all it says (ie: no explaination, just the new tables)?

Nope. It's since been taken offline due to the many more recent pay rate changes. Further pay rate changes simply incorporate the "Lt/Capt" rule from the original change. They don't need to mention it --- because it's (the Lt/Capt) not changing with each succesive CANFORGEN released on pay.

I mean heck, it's been on the books for 10 years already, unless and until it changes again ... it won't get republished.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Thanks again Vern.  So, there would be no way to find out why that condition got implemented, unless I find some guy that knows why?

Max

 

[armyvern]

Thanks again Vern.  So, there would be no way to find out why that condition got implemented, unless I find some guy that knows why?

Max

Well, just by doing a little bit of research -- I'm wagering that it had something to do with the Pilot Retention Program that was underway at that time due to the many experienced pilots who were leaving the CF.

I'm pulling that thought from this CANAIRGEN that preceeded the CANFORGEN by a mere three months and make notes of impending changes to pilots pay. They put their money where it's needed --- towards retaining those at the Capt rank who were experienced. Lts serving at the time, were grandfathered to be included under the "old rules" when they became captains themselves. It all makes sense to me (a rareity I know):

CANFORGEN 059/98 CAS 033 022202Z JUN

Pilot Retention Program - Announcement
UNCLASSIFIED

CANFORGEN 059/98 CAS 033 022202Z JUN

REFS: A. QRO 205.51 - PILOT TERMINABLE ALLOWANCE
B. QRO 15.075 - VOLUNTARY RELEASE ON RECEIPT OF PILOT TERMINABLE
ALLOWANCE

1. ON 01 JUNE 98, THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL DEFENCE ANNOUNCED IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PILOT RETENTION PROGRAM

2. IN RECENT YEARS THE CANADIAN FORCES (CF) HAVE EXPERIENCED UNPRECEDENTED RATES OF PILOT ATTRITION. THIS EXODUS HAS RESULTED IN A CRITICAL SHORTAGE OF EXPERIENCED PILOTS AND HAS THREATENED TO PUT THE AIR FORCES OPERATIONAL CAPABILITY AT RISK. IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE CYCLICAL PROBLEM OF PILOT RETENTION THE CF IS PURSUING A RANGE OF LONG-TERM AND SHORT-TERM INITIATIVES. IT IS IN THE SHORT-TERM AREA THAT THE PILOT RETENTION PROGRAM WAS DEVELOPED. THE PROGRAM HAS TWO ASPECTS, A REDISTRIBUTION OF THE PILOT PAY DIFFERENTIAL AND A TERMINABLE ALLOWANCE IN RETURN FOR A FIXED PERIOD OF SERVICE

3. THE REDISTRIBUTION OF THE PILOT PAY DIFFERENTIAL IS RETROACTIVE TO 1 APR 98 AND WILL BE REFLECTED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE IN PILOT MEMBERS PAY. NEW PAY SCHEDULES ARE BEING PRODUCED AND WILL BE DISTRIBUTED TO UNIT PAY OFFICES IN THE NEAR FUTURE

4. THE TERMINABLE ALLOWANCE APPLIES TO QUALIFIED REGULAR FORCE PILOTS WHO MEET ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS (REF A) AND WHO CONSENT TO SERVE FOR A FIXED PERIOD OF SERVICE (REF B). AN INFORMATION PACKAGE DETAILING PROGRAM SPECIFICS HAS BEEN FORWARDED TO INDIVIDUAL UNITS (ALSO AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET AT HTTP://WWW.DND.CA/CAS/DAR/HOME.HTM.). THE PACKAGE CONTAINS ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA ALONG WITH REQUIRED APPLICATION FORMS. APPLICATIONS FOR THE ALLOWANCE MUST BE SIGNED PRIOR TO 1 AUG 98

5. THE PILOT RETENTION PROGRAM IS HEADED BY COL J. HINCKE, CAS/D AIR PMS, (CSN) 845-3811. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REGARDING THE PILOT RETENTION PROGRAM CAN BE OBTAINED FROM, MAJOR B. COATES, CAS/D AIR PMS 2-4, (CSN) 842-8073. THE OPI FOR TERMINABLE ALLOWANCE (REF A) IS LCDR HAUSBERG, NDHQ/DPPD 2, (CSN) 845-8719 AND THE OPI FOR OBLIGATORY SERVICE POLICY (REF B) IS MAJ JOHN FRANCIS, NDHQ/DPCA 3-4, (CSN) 842-4969

6. ENSURE THIS MESSAGE RECEIVES THE WIDEST POSSIBLE DISSEMINATION. AN ELECTRONIC COPY HAS BEEN SENT TO EA COMD 1 CAD, ALL WCOMDS, ALL ECS AND GROUP PRINCIPALS, CFA, CDLS STAFF AND DCINC NORAD

 

[SupersonicMax]

Wow, I never expected to have a clear answer tonite.  Are you at work or do you have access to the CANXXXGEN on the general net?

Thanks much again!

 

[armyvern]

Wow, I never expected to have a clear answer tonite.  Are you at work or do you have access to the CANXXXGEN on the general net?

Thanks much again!

I'm sitting in my room in the shacks in Borden (P198 - nice new shacks that they are) ... with my baselined computer on my DIN access ...  working on lesson plans.  8)

 

[SupersonicMax]

I see, I was wondering!! 

I will still take the matter to my chain of command see what they think about it.  To me it doesn't seem fair that a person is paid Pilot Pay and the other isn't with the same qualifications.  I won't hold my breath, but my promotion message does say Lt PLT, so someone somewhere must think we should get it.

Max

 

[aesop081]

Max:  You are not qualified for employment in trade as a military pilot; there are still many folks who thunder in having gotten their wings.  You are still a student.  

DP....

Max will set me straight if i am wrong but he is in fact employable as a pilot. He can be employed as an instructor in YMJ on either the Hawk or Harvard II. He just needs the FIC course.

 

[darmil]

I recently got back from Afghanistan,I know the tour was tax free I've heard that we get money back from income tax because of being taxed for the tour.What is the average amount we get back?(I'm a cpl 4) do people ever owe money cause of tour?Just making sure prepared if I do owe just thinking ahead.

 

[stealthylizard]

This all sounds confusing, as taxes usually can be.  Does H&R Block know all the ins and outs of this, or is there a better place to go to get your taxes filed for military members?

 

[Gunner]

I recently got back from Afghanistan,I know the tour was tax free I've heard that we get money back from income tax because of being taxed for the tour.What is the average amount we get back?(I'm a cpl 4) do people ever owe money cause of tour?Just making sure prepared if I do owe just thinking ahead.

Tours are tax free meaning you are not paying any taxes on your income while in theatre hence your refund is not as much as you think it may be.  The amount you actually get is dependent on what other sources of income you have, what taxes you paid on it, and what deductions you have.

This all sounds confusing, as taxes usually can be.  Does H&R Block know all the ins and outs of this, or is there a better place to go to get your taxes filed for military members?

It's not confusing.  All of the information required will be on your T4 when you receive it from the Govt.  Just make sure H&R Block representative knows that a portion of your salary was tax free for serving overseas.  Make sure you have all of your tax information (last year's notice of assessment, RRSP contributions, non-investment T3 and T5s, charitable donations, etc) all together so you are not hunting all over for it.  As an aside, if you are going to fork out the money for H&R Block to do your taxes, you should consider purchasing a tax software program as it is relatively straight forward.  Either way, if someone is preparing your taxes, ask lots of questions so you understand the process and how you are being assessed.

 

[GDawg]

The regular domestic pay, or at least mine, was still taxed.