Paid Physical Fitness Time?

[PuckChaser]

That would be my consideration as well, cycling every day would be one-dimensional fitness. Unless the member is trying to lose a lot of weight, it's not good for overall conditioning. I'd give him a few days a week to cycle in and skip PT, but at least twice a week in the gym doing weights/circuit training with everyone else.

 

[kratz]

When I was requesting the start or end of day PT periods, I was always frustrated with "additional" restrictions on which days, times ect...After reading Jarnhamar and PuckChaser's comments, I have a clearer understanding how the CoC was assisting in improving the overall benefit of my PT efforts.

 

[Pusser]

Looking for opinions.

First, we do a lot of "personal" PT around here, and please let's not start up that old argument again.

If one of my guys or gals wanted to work out from 0800-0900, I'd be all for it. I already have a couple who I see in the weight room first thing in the morning.

If someone wanted to ride their bike for 45mins-1hr as part of their PT, I'd be all for that too! There no difference between going for a PT oriented bike ride and a 5km run, right?

If a member wanted to do their PT from 0800-0900, and their PT consisted of exercise bike riding, that'd be fine too! Makes sense to me.

Now here's  where it starts to feel sort of... wrong? What if a member wants to ride his bike from 0800-0845, then shower, and his route for said bike ride is from his house to the unit? It has all the elements of the above examples, but it feels kind of like cheating out of work. I trust that the member isn't just sleeping in. He actually does live 45 mins away and doesn't own a car, so if he shows up at 0845 on his bike, I know he actually spent 45 mins peddling away.

Thoughts? Does this feel off to anyone else? Would you let him?

Cheers

I would permit this in a heartbeat, because that is exactly what I do!  The only thing I would look out for is whether he's stepping off the bus or walking from the parking lot at 0845 (which I once caught one of my subordinates doing).  As others have said, anyone who would abuse this situation would be found out soon enough.  Furthermore, allowing people to leave early for PT (e.g. go play hockey) and not return to work afterwards is commonplace.  I don't see this as being any different.

As for the idea that this individual is missing unit PT, that does not appear to be an issue in this case (i.e. no mention that the unit does group PT first thing in the morning).  Also, I would argue that the statements concerning whether or not this is a "complete" workout are irrelevant.  Aside from those units that do group PT (and even then I wonder), where in the CF do we, as an organization, actually monitor and ensure that personnel are working the whole body with both cardio and resistance training?  Finally, anyone who thinks that cycling only works the legs, hasn't done a lot of cycling...

 

[Lumber]

Thanks for all the input everyone!

 

[CountDC]

I would permit this in a heartbeat, because that is exactly what I do!  The only thing I would look out for is whether he's stepping off the bus or walking from the parking lot at 0845 (which I once caught one of my subordinates doing).  As others have said, anyone who would abuse this situation would be found out soon enough.  Furthermore, allowing people to leave early for PT (e.g. go play hockey) and not return to work afterwards is commonplace.  I don't see this as being any different.

As for the idea that this individual is missing unit PT, that does not appear to be an issue in this case (i.e. no mention that the unit does group PT first thing in the morning).  Also, I would argue that the statements concerning whether or not this is a "complete" workout are irrelevant.  Aside from those units that do group PT (and even then I wonder), where in the CF do we, as an organization, actually monitor and ensure that personnel are working the whole body with both cardio and resistance training?  Finally, anyone who thinks that cycling only works the legs, hasn't done a lot of cycling...

Agree fully as I do the same thing. Cycle back and forth to work as my unit PT and it is a harder work out than just legs or cardio.  Even if they were to make me be at work and then go do PT it wouldn't really accomplish anything different.  I would bike in and go to PT already tired out so not get much more of a workout.  I also workout at home with my wife who comes up with circuits harder than any I have done at work.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm a part time guy a.k.a. Class A Temp CF (cannon fodder)

I don't get paid for PT, except when I do the mandatory PT tests annually, or when I get to the armoury early enough to join the rifle company guys in a workout on a parade night.

There are Class B people who 'get paid' to do PT daily and many are - shall we say - somewhat less capable than this 55 year old chunk of cannon fodder. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the fittest guy around, but I am good to go compared to some of these people, sadly.

Should I submit pay sheets to recognize the time spent on my personal efforts, in my own time?

Should my (part time) soldiers do the same?

Really, looking for a steer here.

 

[PuckChaser]

If you start submitting pay sheets for doing PT: 1. You'll run out of CL A days and not be allowed to show up anymore for that year, 2. Do you plan on showing up for the 5 hours of work you owe the Crown for the half day pay you signed?

 

[Jarnhamar]

"because I do it" isn't necessarily a great justification however I'm glad to read that than see some people get special privilege and others not.

My issue wouldn't be whether or not biking can be a physically challenging work out, obviously it can be. My issue would be the intensity and training involved in a member taking a bike to work in lieu of PT.  Running to work is a workout, walking at the speed of a child's pace isn't.

Should I submit pay sheets to recognize the time spent on my personal efforts, in my own time?

Should my (part time) soldiers do the same?

Really, looking for a steer here.

IMO reservists should absolutely be accommodated for PT somehow. If shit hits the fan the reg force won't be be effective without augmentation by reservists. Reservists seem to be generally out of shape. To me it only makes sense to try and help foster physical fitness so when we need them they'll be more ready.
Tracking and oversight would be an issue of course and require some brain storming.

 

[daftandbarmy]

"because I do it" isn't necessarily a great justification however I'm glad to read that than see some people get special privilege and others not.

My issue wouldn't be whether or not biking can be a physically challenging work out, obviously it can be. My issue would be the intensity and training involved in a member taking a bike to work in lieu of PT.  Running to work is a workout, walking at the speed of a child's pace isn't.


IMO reservists should absolutely be accommodated for PT somehow. If crap hits the fan the reg force won't be be effective without augmentation by reservists. Reservists seem to be generally out of shape. To me it only makes sense to try and help foster physical fitness so when we need them they'll be more ready.
Tracking and oversight would be an issue of course and require some brain storming.

There is a role here for biometric fitness trackers, of course. Large corporations, much larger than the CF, are getting on board with this big time

Require me to prove my fitness program through uploading my metrics to facebook, or whatever, then give me 5 x 1/2 day pay sheets per week.

I shouldn't have to parade at the armoury to do fitness. Ours is nowhere near the 1300ft mountain I usually train on (with a 40lb ruck) anyways

 

[dapaterson]

To recap CAF physical fitness: If we pay you 24/7, we'll give you reduced working hours and provide fitness facilities to let you exercise.  If you're part-time, we won't pay for your time, or provide you with any significant resources to help with your fitness.

 

[PuckChaser]

If there's a base nearby, reservists can use the base gym no questions asked. Whether they do it or not, is their problem. Regular force members are expected to be ready to go at a moment's notice. If a reservist wants to deploy, they have months to get ready prior to contract award. If that reservist isn't fit, that's a PRes unit CoC failure for nominating someone not in shape.

 

[dapaterson]

If there's a base nearby, reservists can use the base gym no questions asked. Whether they do it or not, is their problem.

If - and it's a big if.  As well, some maintain restrictive hours that don;t serve people already working full time very well.

Regular force members are expected to be ready to go at a moment's notice.

With the numbers who DAG red, it's clear that many are not holding up their end of the bargain.

If a reservist wants to deploy, they have months to get ready prior to contract award. If that reservist isn't fit, that's a PRes unit CoC failure for nominating someone not in shape.

Have you read the policy on nominations for full-time service, and what the Reserve CoC can (and cannot) do?

 

[PuckChaser]

You're telling me if someone is a fat slob, they're entitled to be nominated by their chain for a deployment? What kind of bizzaro world is that? I had a job interview to get a contract for workup training, and had to earn a spot as a Det comd, otherwise I would have deployed as a Cpl.

Those working restrictive hours should reconsider employment in the Reserves then. If they can't devote a couple hours a week to fitness, they're likely too busy to train effectively or be called up when required. They're also likely too busy to prevent a heart attack in their 40s as well.

 

[dapaterson]

Those working restrictive hours should reconsider employment in the Reserves then. If they can't devote a couple hours a week to fitness, they're likely too busy to train effectively or be called up when required. They're also likely too busy to prevent a heart attack in their 40s as well.

Sorry, talking at cross purposes here.  I'm referring to those who can and do train, and would use military facilities if they could, but military facilities close at say 1800, so they have to go elsewhere.

 

[PuckChaser]

Sorry, talking at cross purposes here.  I'm referring to those who can and do train, and would use military facilities if they could, but military facilities close at say 1800, so they have to go elsewhere.

Thats not on. Any military fitness facility should be open 0530 to 2200 daily. The extra couple hours at $15/h or so per employee is money in the bank when you consider saved costs from a fit military member, even if they are a Cl A reservist.

 

[ModlrMike]

Thats not on. Any military fitness facility should be open 0530 to 2200 daily. The extra couple hours at $15/h or so per employee is money in the bank when you consider saved costs from a fit military member, even if they are a Cl A reservist.

But then there won't be enough money to buy new combat boots, or uniforms, or whatever...  >

 

[Jarnhamar]

If there's a base nearby, reservists can use the base gym no questions asked. Whether they do it or not, is their problem. Regular force members are expected to be ready to go at a moment's notice. If a reservist wants to deploy, they have months to get ready prior to contract award. If that reservist isn't fit, that's a PRes unit CoC failure for nominating someone not in shape.

Not always the case I'm afraid.

As a class B reservist I fought for and was soundly denied permission for myself and other class B pers to use a gym local reg force pers had free access to; if we wanted to use the gym it was $600+ a year.

The reason we couldn't use the gym free of charge was because 15 years prior two privates made a mess in the change room (I kid you not).

When I pushed to get class B members free gym memberships at other local gyms I was told only class B pers on 3 year contracts were eligible; we all know how the reserves and their 89 instead of 90 day contracts feel about benefits.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You're telling me if someone is a fat slob, they're entitled to be nominated by their chain for a deployment? What kind of bizzaro world is that? I had a job interview to get a contract for workup training, and had to earn a spot as a Det comd, otherwise I would have deployed as a Cpl.

Those working restrictive hours should reconsider employment in the Reserves then. If they can't devote a couple hours a week to fitness, they're likely too busy to train effectively or be called up when required. They're also likely too busy to prevent a heart attack in their 40s as well.

Although, I've seen some 'Reg Force" fat slobs members who aren't PT poster boys/girls deployed as well (and recently...);the deployment standard right now is the FORCE test for PT.  :nod:

 

[Pusser]

On the Reserve side of things, one solution might be to put gyms in armouries.

 

[PuckChaser]

On the Reserve side of things, one solution might be to put gyms in armouries.

PSP mafia would never allow it.