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Paid parking DND property

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Tibbson

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NavyShooter said:
But...NAD is no longer manned 24/7....it's only open during working hours.

So, if I go to sea for a month, park my car over there while I'm gone, and happen to come home on the weekend, I cannot get in to pick up my car.  Until Monday. 

See the problem with that? 

NS

I woukdnt count on parking there too long.  My unit has a training location at NAD and we were notified last month that base authorities are looking to shut it down as a cost saving exercise.  They say its no longer needed.  No idea if that is true or not (the not being needed part) but we've been told not to spend any more money on our facilities there.
 

JS2218

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Paid parking system at CFB Halifax cost $460,000 to install

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1279895-paid-parking-system-at-cfb-halifax-cost-460000-to-install

Ottawa spent $460,000 installing a paid parking system at CFB Halifax, following a contentious decision last fall to start charging military members and civilian employees to park.

The six Halifax sites make up the only base in Canada to charge for parking, but a Treasury Board missive may open the door for more urban military sites to do the same.

“For DND establishments located in commercially developed centres, it should be expected that appropriate charges for parking will be established in the near future,” a parliamentary note reads.

A Department of National Defence spokeswoman could not respond by deadline about which other bases might begin charging for parking or when that might happen.

Thousands more soldiers and civilians, however, stand to be affected by such a decision. About half a dozen Canadian Forces bases fall near urban boundaries, including CFB Edmonton, CFB Montreal, CFB Esquimalt, CFB Winnipeg, CFB Toronto and CFS St. John’s.

In Halifax, the order came down after the Treasury Board and the Canada Revenue Agency ruled that parking offered at less than fair market value should be considered a taxable benefit, which sparked protests throughout the summer.

The Library of Parliament note responded to Halifax West MP Geoff Regan about whether Ottawa looked at other options before changing the rules, which now sees members pay between $25 and $110 for a monthly pass to Stadacona, Windsor-Willow Park, Royal Artillery Park, Dartmouth’s Dockyard Annex and the HMC Dockyard

But, according to the parliamentary letter, no other options were explored.

Regan said that’s unacceptable, considering such a change affects more than 7,000 soldiers, sailors and civilian employees at CFB Halifax. And that it has the potential to affect Canadian Forces members across the country.

“It’s shocking that half a million dollars, basically, was spent to install payment infrastructure on the base without considering any alternatives,” Regan said. “It’s incumbent on the minister to say to (staff) ‘What are the alternatives to this?’ and look for those alternatives.”

In fact, the local president for the Union of National Defence Employees said there are other options. One of the easiest would have been for individual service members and employees to claim the benefit on their annual income tax. They could also have opened a “scramble style” parking, which would see more than 7,000 employees would be looking to fill 4,503 spots. Without the guarantee of parking spot, Craig Smith argues it cannot be a taxable benefit.

As for fair market value, you need only to look to the employers on either side of the HMC Dockyard, Smith said; both Irving Shipyard and Halifax Water both offer free parking spots to their workers.

“I don’t understand for the life of me why (DND) would not choose other options, other than to make money,” Smith said.

It’s unclear how long it will take for the Department of National Defence to recoup the costs spent on installing the paid parking system in Halifax or whether those costs are related to infrastructure, software or both — and whether it would cost the same to implement those systems at other bases.

Defence staff were unable to respond to those questions by deadline Friday.
 

c_canuk

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$460 000 / ~1500 pers = ~300.00 / $25 per month = ~ 12 months.

That's a healthy wad of new funding.
 

Eaglelord17

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As a side point shouldn't the PLD for Halifax be increased now as the paid for parking is a extra expense to be occurred if you are posted there (since you don't have to pay for it on other bases)?
 

PMedMoe

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Eaglelord17 said:
As a side point shouldn't the PLD for Halifax be increased now as the paid for parking is a extra expense to be occurred if you are posted there (since you don't have to pay for it on other bases)?

Really?  Then I guess people in Ottawa should get PLD??
 
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jollyjacktar

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I do wonder.  Do personnel from other Federal agencies that are in Ottawa get an equivalent to PLD?  Do Members of Parliament get similar benefits when there on IR etc?  Or are we alone with our benefits be they more or less than the other folks?
 

George Wallace

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Eaglelord17 said:
As a side point shouldn't the PLD for Halifax be increased now as the paid for parking is a extra expense to be occurred if you are posted there (since you don't have to pay for it on other bases)?

False.  You do have to pay for parking at other bases; not all.  If you want to increase PLD in Halifax to cover parking, then those in Ottawa should also get an increase from the "Zero" that they have currently.
 

Eaglelord17

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I get Ottawa is zero because it is the standard but Halifax's PLD was calculated before they made you pay for parking, so wouldn't that mean that the PLD should go up as the cost of living has gone up. Just wondering on people thoughts here, personally I don't have a dog in this fight.
 

George Wallace

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Eaglelord17 said:
I get Ottawa is zero because it is the standard but Halifax's PLD was calculated before they made you pay for parking, so wouldn't that mean that the PLD should go up as the cost of living has gone up. Just wondering on people thoughts here, personally I don't have a dog in this fight.


I get it.  You want an increase due to now having to pay parking fees.  I highly doubt anyone in Ottawa who pays parking fees would agree with you, unless of course you propose that those who have had to pay parking fees at various locations across the nation get retroactive increases as well. 

 

c_canuk

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I think most people would be happy if TB just updated PLD yearly, as they are required to iirc, and used realistic estimates based on actual costs incurred by members. Have Cold Lake's difficulties with this been addressed yet?
 

dapaterson

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c_canuk said:
I think most people would be happy if TB just updated PLD yearly, as they are required to iirc, and used realistic estimates based on actual costs incurred by members. Have Cold Lake's difficulties with this been addressed yet?

People don't want PLD updated annually; they want their PLD to be increased annually.  If we agree that PLD should be to ensure an equivalent standard of living regardless of where CAF members are posted, it means that as costs change, so should PLD - meaning some years it should go down.
 

upandatom

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jollyjacktar said:
I do wonder.  Do personnel from other Federal agencies that are in Ottawa get an equivalent to PLD?  Do Members of Parliament get similar benefits when there on IR etc?  Or are we alone with our benefits be they more or less than the other folks?

Members of Parliament don't pay for their lunch or dinner most days and its billed. Dont even compare those crooks to PS or Servicemen and women.
 

Eaglelord17

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George Wallace said:
I get it.  You want an increase due to now having to pay parking fees.  I highly doubt anyone in Ottawa who pays parking fees would agree with you, unless of course you propose that those who have had to pay parking fees at various locations across the nation get retroactive increases as well.

I was serious when I said I don't have a dog in this fight. I personally pay 180$ a month for parking off the base, and I was paying for it before this whole paid for parking issue came up. I also don't have a dog in this fight as very soon PLD won't matter to me, as I will no longer be in the Navy. It was just a question as I thought the whole point of PLD was to balance cost of living differences between different locations, and this is a increase in cost of living expense, being occurred in one area the PLD should go up.
 

c_canuk

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dapaterson said:
People don't want PLD updated annually; they want their PLD to be increased annually.  If we agree that PLD should be to ensure an equivalent standard of living regardless of where CAF members are posted, it means that as costs change, so should PLD - meaning some years it should go down.

I think people would prefer for it to go up annually, however, I think if the process was realistic and transparent I don't see why people would get to bent out of shape if it were to go down.

I can't imagine many places that is likely to happen... perhaps by the time Cold Lake gets re evaluated it's housing bubble will burst, solving the issue on it's own.
 

dapaterson

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c_canuk said:
I think people would prefer for it to go up annually, however, I think if the process was realistic and transparent I don't see why people would get to bent out of shape if it were to go down.

I can't imagine many places that is likely to happen... perhaps by the time Cold Lake gets re evaluated it's housing bubble will burst, solving the issue on it's own.

To the contrary, it should always be going up & down - unless we're posting people to Lake Woebegone, where everyone is above average. [/Garrison Keillor] The mid-point will always change, and the disposition of locations relative to that midpoint will change as well.

But there's a larger, systemic problem with PLD: if we encourage people to buy rather than rent, their housing costs become fixed based on when they were posted in, and the state of the real estate market at that time.  Even if houses lose half their value in that location, it's the newly posted folks whose costs go down - those with houses bought at the peak are still carrying mortgages from the peak.  So how do we protect those earlier arrivals?


(EDIT: Correct spelling of Garrison Keillor)
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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upandatom said:
Members of Parliament don't pay for their lunch or dinner most days and its billed. Dont even compare those crooks to PS or Servicemen and women.

Throw your hat in the ring then if you think it's such a great job.....
 

Alberta Bound

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JJT.  Fyi, the RCMP has used a geographic allowance only a couple times for certain high cost areas. Toronto was one. At present only Ft MacMurray gets one. And it is paid for by the municipality I have been told.

But we also don't get IR. If you chose for whatever reason to go on a posting without the family then it is on your own hook. Not even a discount on Govt housing. 

GH.
 
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jollyjacktar

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Thanks for that info, AB.  I'm surprised that the force isn't more accomodating to members that.  I suppose we don't know how lucky we are at times with what we have.
 
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