P-8 Poseidon

[Rifleman62]

http://defensetech.org/2012/03/07/the-navys-newest-sub-hunter/

The Navy’s Newest Sub-Hunter

There you have it, the U.S. Navy’s first production P-8A submarine hunter taking off on its first flight from Boeing’s plant in Seattle on March 6.

The plane flew to Naval Air Station Jacksonville in Florida where it will serve as a training jet, helping the sea service’s sub-hunters get used to flying in equipment that isn’t based on a 55 year-old design (oh wait, the 737 design is almost 50, but at least it’s still in production and the new versions resemble old 737 only in appearances). Anyway, the old sub-hunters I’m talking about are the venerable P-3 Orions, they entered the fleet in the 1960s and are based on the 1950s vintage Lockheed Electra airliner.

In all seriousness, the P-8 is a big leap for the Navy, the plane is going to work with UAV’s such as Northrop Grumman’s RQ-4 GLobal Hawk-based Broad Area Maritime Surveillance jet to hunt down subs and probably anything else on the high seas and in the “littorals”.

Second Photo:

P-8 Launches Torpedo for the First Time

Check out this picture of the U.S. Navy’s P-8 subhunter launching a torpedo for the very first time. As you can see, the Mk 54 test torpedo was launched on Oct. 13 from the 737-based jet’s weapons bay (notice how the bay doors are open in the photo).

The test drop happened at about 500-feet above the water and was the first in a series of P-8 weapons tests meant to evaluate safe separation from the aircraft, delivery accuracy and weapon integration, according to NAVAIR.

It should be noted, that in addition to launching sonobouys and scanning the sea-surface with its APY-10 radar, the P-8 can also carry Harpoon anti-ship missiles and maybe even air-to-air missiles. (Its predecessor, the P-3 has carried, and used, Harpoon missiles, maverick air-to-ground missiles and Sidewinder air-to-air missiles.)


Read more: http://defensetech.org/2012/03/07/the-navys-newest-sub-hunter/#ixzz1oXG0YJXS
Defense.org

 

[Grizzly]

If Canada ever did consider purchasing the P-8A, would our version include the magnetic anomaly detector? From what I've read, the US removed it from their P-8s to save weight and increase range, but the P-8I for the Indian Navy is going to retain it. Is a MAD still a useful sensor? If so, is an increased range worth the trade off of losing a potentially valuable sensor capability?

 

[aesop081]

From what I've read, the US removed it from their P-8s to save weight and increase range,

That is incorrect.

but the P-8I for the Indian Navy is going to retain it. 

Yes, the P-8I has MAD.

Is a MAD still a useful sensor?

Oh hell yes.

If so, is an increased range worth the trade off of losing a potentially valuable sensor capability?

That certainly depends on how one intends to use the aircraft. No sense having MAD if your concept of operations doesn't have you spend time blow 1000 feet.

For reference, MAD systems tend to not be complicated systems. The ASQ-502 currently on the CP-140 does not have all that many components and does not weight all that much in the grand scheme of things. I don't think that a modern MAD system's weight would be much of an issue.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I could be wrong here, but I seem to remember reading somewhere (can't find it back though!) that the US intended to put a small version MAD on the modified Global Hawks that are to be controlled by the Poseidons.

Can someone shed light on this?

 

[aesop081]

I could be wrong here, but I seem to remember reading somewhere (can't find it back though!) that the US intended to put a small version MAD on the modified Global Hawks that are to be controlled by the Poseidons.

Can someone shed light on this?

Global Hawks will not operate at an altitude low enough to employ MAD.

 

[Sub_Guy]

MAD is the one sensor I have grown to love, nothing beats hearing the MAD Mark call while tracking.  It pretty much seals the deal.  There have been many times where I have mumbled to my fellow ASO, "I wish the ******* MAD was working"...

According to Wiki  :, MAD was removed to save on the weight issue, endurance issue, in the words of Karl Pilkington's superhero B.S. Man, I call BS on that.  They have the MAD equipment listed as weighing in at 1600 kg!

Maybe it's just me and my tampons, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing MAD runs on the P8 anyway...  (not that I have to worry about that).

As for the UAV, here is one idea...  http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/dti/2012/01/01/DT_01_01_2012_p50-403446.xml&channel=defense

"One idea under study is for the P-8A to launch a version of Boeing’s Scan- Eagle UAV that could carry a MAD sensor. The UAV would recover to a land base."    <-  Fantastic Idea, because all ASW missions are within range of an Allied air base, equipped to recover Scan Eagles.

 

[Kirkhill]

Is this a new method for the Aurora and Poseidon types to reach out and touch the ground?

STM Phase II is a new 13.5-pound, 22-inch long, precision-guided, gravity-dropped bomb specifically designed for employment from manned and unmanned aircraft systems.

STM Phase II is more than 2 inches shorter than the Phase I design and has foldable fins and wings, enabling two weapons to be placed inside the U.S. military's common launch tube. STM Phase II's modular assembly will make the system simpler to manufacture on a large scale.

link

 

[WingsofFury]

It's a long read, but this gives a great account of what Aurora crews did in theatre last year.  BZ to all involved.

Punching Above It's Weight - The CP140 Aurora Experience within Task Force Libeccio and Operation MOBILE

By Captain Daniel Arsenault and Captain Josh Christianson

Few airborne platforms in the world have as broad a spectrum of roles as the modern long-range patrol aircraft (LRPA). Canada’s LRPA, the CP140 Aurora, is no exception and over the past two decades, it has seen its scope of operations expand from the naval surface and subsurface missions
of the cold war era. In the past 12 months, CP140s have been conducting operations in overland intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and control (ISR&C); naval gunfire support (NGS); overland strike coordination and reconnaissance (SCAR); maritime interdiction; psychological operations; counter
narcotics; fisheries and sovereignty patrols; search and rescue; and support to other government departments (OGDs).

These roles continue to grow and evolve with technology and the joint force commander’s (JFC’s) demand for realtime situational awareness, regardless of the battlespace. In March 2011, a longrange patrol (LRP) air expeditionary unit (AEU) deployed as part of Task Force (TF) Libeccio, the air campaign within Operation (Op) MOBILE, providing the commander with that crucial awareness. Operation MOBILE refers to Canada’s contribution to
Op UNIFIED PROTECTOR, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization- (NATO-) led mission in Libya, which included a maritime arms embargo authorized under United Nation (UN) Security Council Resolution 1970, and was subsequently strengthened with the passing of Resolution 1973 and the
establishment of a no-fly zone.  The ultimate goal of this contribution was the protection of civilians in Libya. It was also the first LRP Canadian Expeditionary Force Command deployment out of Canada since supporting Op ATHENA in 2009 and the first sustained, multiple-crew rotation deployment for the CP140 since Op APOLLO in 2003.

Entire report can be read at this link ->  http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/cfawc/eLibrary/Journal/2012-Vol1/Iss3-Summer/Sections/05-Punching_Above_the_Weight_The_CP140_Aurora_Experience_Within_Task_Force_Libeccio_and_Operation_MOBILE_e.pdf

 

[Haletown]

P-8 article  . . .  Overview discussion of to be MAD or not


http://defense.aol.com/2012/10/02/navys-p-8-sub-hunter-bets-on-high-altitude-high-tech-barf-bag/?icid=trending3

 

[CougarKing]

Complicated weapon systems often have teething problems early in their career. The P-8 is apparently no exeception.

====

U.S. Navy’s new surveillance plane is full of flaws and not yet effective
Jan 25 2014

Aviationist

By David Cenciotti
Although it has not been released yet, the outcome of the annual report on major weapons, by Michael Gilmore, chief of the Pentagon testing office, has already made the news.

Even if the report does not use the word “flop”,  it depicts the new Boeing P-8A Poseidon as just not yet effective in two of its main missions: anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and wide area reconnaissance.

Flaws in the multi-million program (actually, a 35 billion USD endeavour) are almost everywhere: radar, sensor integration, data transfer.

(...)

 

[The Bread Guy]

Bumped with some new info - it seems there'll be more time to choose a replacement for the Aurora ....

The federal Conservative government’s centrepiece defence strategy has taken another hit as plans to buy a new fleet of airplanes to patrol Canada’s coasts and its Arctic territory by 2020 have been effectively shelved.

Instead, documents tabled in the House of Commons on Thursday say the government will invest more than $2 billion to keep its existing Aurora maritime patrol aircraft flying until 2030, by which point the planes will be nearly 50 years old.

(....)

The Auroras underwent a 10-year, $1.6-billion upgrade starting in 1999 to keep them flying to 2020, at which point the Conservative government had planned to purchase 10 to 12 replacements as part of its $240-billion defence strategy.

But budget estimates tabled Thursday said the government has scrapped that plan and instead will “extend the lifespan of the 14 existing aircraft until 2030,” at a total cost of $2.13 billion.

A spokeswoman for Defence Minister Rob Nicholson said it was the air force’s idea to put off the purchase and upgrade the Auroras instead.

“The augmentation of the Aurora fleet will extend the lifespan of these aircrafts to provide service at the best value for taxpayers,” spokeswoman Johanna Quinney said in an email.  “The Aurora is one of the most capable long-range patrol aircrafts in the world and the retrofit will be completed in Canada.” ....

 

[cupper]

The P-8A Poseidon adventure begins for the Navy

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57619756-76/the-p-8a-poseidon-adventure-begins-for-the-navy/

There's a new sub-hunter in town: the US Navy's P-8A Poseidon, just now taking to the air to replace the venerable P-3C Orion. And soon it'll have a drone deputy.

The US Navy likes to dip into Greek and Roman mythology to name the aircraft it puts on the front lines of maritime patrol missions and antisubmarine warfare.

Once there was the P-2 Neptune, which went into service not long after World War II and has long since been retired. The early 1960s brought the P-3 Orion, the scions of which are still on active duty today. Now, to replace the venerable Orion, comes the P-8A Poseidon.

At the beginning of December 2013, a half-dozen Poseidons arrived at Kadena Air Base on the island of Okinawa for the aircraft's first operational deployment, on duty with the Navy's Patrol Squadron 16 (VP 16) in support of the 7th Fleet. To date, Boeing has delivered 13 of the aircraft, which are based on its commercial 737-800 design. (Similarly, the new KC-46A Tanker aerial-refueling aircraft, which is to replace the older KC-135 Stratotankers and KC-10 Extenders, is based on the commercial Boeing 767 design.)

And more are on the way: a few days ago, Boeing said that it had received a $2.4 billion contract from the Navy to build an additional 16, and to move to full production from the earlier status of preliminary low-rate production. That puts the big defense contractor under contract so far to deliver 53 of the P-8A Poseidons. Eventually, the Navy aims to acquire a grand total of 117.

The role of the P-8A is long-range antisubmarine and antisurface warfare, and for good measure it can also do more general intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions. The Navy says that the jet-powered P-8A is significantly quieter than the propeller-driven P-3C (the most modern version of the P-3), requires less maintenance, and provides more on-station time (meaning, essentially, that it can hang out longer in a given patrol area).

It's the rare new piece of military technology that comes on the scene without some controversy. (F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, we're looking at you.) In the case of the P-8A Poseidon, the head of the Pentagon's testing office has pointed to a number of "deficiencies" in the P-8A that would make the aircraft, at least early on, "not effective for the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance mission and...not effective for wide area anti-submarine search," according to a prepublication version of an annual report on weapons systems seen by Bloomberg News.

A Navy spokeswoman cited by Bloomberg sought to lay those concerns to rest: "Most issues cited have been collectively identified," she said, and the Navy has developed "software upgrades to correct deficiencies."

For the foreseeable future, the Navy won't be relying on the P-8A Poseidon alone for sub-hunting and other patrol missions. The P-3C Orion will remain deployed for a transition phase while the Poseidon squadrons get up to full strength.

And soon enough, too, the Poseidon, which has a crew of nine, will have a new partner in the air -- an unmanned one. It'll be Northrop Grumman's MQ-4C Triton, a drone aircraft adapted from the established Global Hawk, intended to share the work load the Poseidon. Eventually, there will be 68 of the Triton aircraft -- and there's that Greek mythology thing again -- but for now, that's still a long way off. As of the start of this year, Northrop Grumman and the Navy had conducted nine test flights of the Triton.

Link to Photos

http://news.cnet.com/2300-11386_3-10019227.html

 

[CougarKing]

Will Australia's Orions be put up for foreign sales once the Poseidons are all in RAAF service?

Defense News

P-8 News: Indian Options, Australian Production

VICTORIA, Australia — A Boeing official said negotiations are underway with India to convert options to buy four P-8I Neptune maritime intelligence-surveillance-reconnaissance aircraft into firm orders.

India ordered eight P-8Is in 2009; six have been delivered.

"We're currently talking with them about executing those four options," said James Detwiler, Boeing's P-8 business development director for maritime systems, at the Australian International Airshow. "We understand there is an interest to get that done sooner rather than later."

(...SNIPPED)

Detwiler also said that manufacture of long-lead items for the first of eight P-8As for the Royal Australian Air Force was underway to support an early-2017 delivery.

Australia holds options to buy four more P-8As, which will be considered as part of the forthcoming Defence White Paper process and in conjunction with up to seven Northrop Grumman MQ-4C Triton high-altitude, long-endurance (HALE) unmanned maritime surveillance aircraft.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[FSTO]

Meanwhile in Canada..............(crickets)............can we get 40 more years out of the Aurora?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well they might start restoring the Argus at CFB Comox and they could buy back some Trackers and Canso's Will go with the Military Heritage theme.....

 

[dimsum]

Some video of VP-5 and their P-8s.  I never though of the 737 as a "sexy" airplane, but it does look nice.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/watch-vp-5-mad-foxes-put-their-new-p-8a-poseidons-to-1693285770?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

[Good2Golf]

Not sure how the overall mission profiles are compared to P-3/CP-140, but it actually looks kinda cool and the flying close to the deck looks pretty fun!

 

[cupper]

It seems slow on take-off though. There's one sequence in the video where it takes 3 days and nights to get airborne.  ;D

Nice piece of kit. One thought I had is that with the commercial aircraft reconfigured, undetected surveillance of coastlines for drug interdiction and other similar mission would be easier, as the aircraft could fly at altitude along regular airline routes and not raise alarms of those being targeted. It would look just like any other commercial airliner.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

and the flying close to the deck looks pretty fun!

It actually is really fun.  Straight and level at 100' or 60 and 2s at 300' is great flying and great views out the front or aft windows.

Not quite as fun sitting on the Tac rail. 

 

[SupersonicMax]

Nice piece of kit. One thought I had is that with the commercial aircraft reconfigured, undetected surveillance of coastlines for drug interdiction and other similar mission would be easier, as the aircraft could fly at altitude along regular airline routes and not raise alarms of those being targeted. It would look just like any other commercial airliner.

Not quite.  If you are operating within 12 NM of a country's coast, you need to have a diplomatic clearance. 

If you operate outside 12 NM from the coast, you have 2 options: Due Regard or on a flight plan.

Due Regard, their ATC will see radar returns not on flight plan.  They will know a military aircraft is out you're doing some work. Only available to state aircraft.

If you are on a flight plan, you will have a Canforce callsign and will be filed as a military flight.

Either way, they'll know a military aircraft is out there.