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Ordered "to get a phone" / Contact Information [Merged]

Tibbson

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Oh, they had it.  Anyone would have been able to call me IF they were willing to spend $5.15 a minute for the sat phone connection.

Oddly enough, for most of our trip from NYC down to the islands we couldn't see land at all but we were still close enough to get cell signal.
 

Shamrock

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I have an issued blackberry as my position requires me to be responsive outside normal duty hours.
 

Navy_Pete

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I don't really see why this required four pages so far. Very few people are in critical positions; even then there is a CoC with acting replacements for a reason.  If there is a real operational demand to be on call, you get a phone/pager.  If you are on a short notice to deploy (ie, Ready Duty Ship, or RDS in the Navy), then it's a case by case on how far you can go (normally within 4 hours, but it's at the CO's discretion and there is usually a CSO associated with it).

Otherwise having an address or some other way to reach someone outside of normal business hours is fine; very little that can't and the things that can't will normally be all over the news or will justify sending someone to look for you.  There is no reason why I or almost anyone else shouldn't be able to unplug and jump in a canoe and toodle around Algonquin park for two weeks with no way to reach me; the system is designed to work regardless.

We are all very little cogs in a very big (Rube Goldberg) machine, and are very replaceable.  It's a bit egotistical to think otherwise.

If you want people to be on call, give them something like pagers, and have guidelines about what your expectations are and any limitations (ie stay sober).  But expecting everyone to be on call 24/7 is unreasonable and totally unnecessary; folks need their downtime.
 

Haggis

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Schindler's Lift said:
I had an situation similar to this a year ago when my wife and I went on a cruise. .....

Please tell us that you only booked the cruise AFTER the leave request was approved.
 

cupper

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Quote from: Schindler's Lift on Today at 11:13:04
I had an situation similar to this a year ago when my wife and I went on a cruise. .....

Haggis said:
Please tell us that you only booked the cruise AFTER the leave request was approved.

Just let me get a shot of whiskey for my coffee so I can settle in for the next few pages….
 

Occam

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Shamrock said:
I have an issued blackberry as my position requires me to be responsive outside normal duty hours.

Yep, the Wing Commander at one of my postings had a BlackBerry too - and complained quite often (to nobody in particular) that the location that he takes his leave in Newfoundland is hundreds of kilometres outside of his cellular provider's coverage area.  I don't recall it ever stopping the Wing Commander from taking leave, though.
 

McG

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MJP said:
Unless he is the lynchpin of the entire CAF I think his CoC was absolutely retarded pressing the issue as they did.
Agreed.
 

DAA

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Navy_Pete said:
I don't really see why this required four pages so far. Very few people are in critical positions; even then there is a CoC with acting replacements for a reason.  If there is a real operational demand to be on call, you get a phone/pager.  If you are on a short notice to deploy (ie, Ready Duty Ship, or RDS in the Navy), then it's a case by case on how far you can go (normally within 4 hours, but it's at the CO's discretion and there is usually a CSO associated with it).

Otherwise having an address or some other way to reach someone outside of normal business hours is fine; very little that can't and the things that can't will normally be all over the news or will justify sending someone to look for you.  There is no reason why I or almost anyone else shouldn't be able to unplug and jump in a canoe and toodle around Algonquin park for two weeks with no way to reach me; the system is designed to work regardless.

We are all very little cogs in a very big (Rube Goldberg) machine, and are very replaceable.  It's a bit egotistical to think otherwise.

If you want people to be on call, give them something like pagers, and have guidelines about what your expectations are and any limitations (ie stay sober).  But expecting everyone to be on call 24/7 is unreasonable and totally unnecessary; folks need their downtime.

"Service before self" and trying to reinforce that point........that's why this is dragging on and it's actually become rather interesting with the comments posted so far.  I've had the privilege of seeing both extreme ends of the scale.......

A CO taking leave outside the country, taking his BB with him, resulting in running up a rather large $$$ bill for checking his emails.  Result.....change in policy on BB use when on leave outside the area.

Someone assigned for on-call duty, given both a Cellphone and Pager.  Who decided to turn both off, because "the phone kept ringing and the pager kept going off" and they couldn't sleep.  They even tried their home phone but they had unplugged that too......  Let's just say, a rather "expensive" lesson was learned as a result.

Hell, we don't even know anything about the person who made the original post.  It could have been a Cpl who was told/ordered by their MCpl to get a phone.  But just for the sake of it, take the time to think of things in this context............"If I had to get in touch with the people within my AOR right NOW, how many could I expect to be able to reach if I tried?"

 

dapaterson

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Singapore does recall exercises with announcements in TV and radio.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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DAA said:
Hell, we don't even know anything about the person who made the original post.  It could have been a Cpl who was told/ordered by their MCpl to get a phone. 

max32xmax said:
. Turns out one of the other guys in the room was recently threatened a charge after the MWO was unable to reach him on his cell (it was something trivial, but the MWO was pretty annoyed).
 

Navy_Pete

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DAA said:
"Service before self" and trying to reinforce that point........that's why this is dragging on and it's actually become rather interesting with the comments posted so far.  I've had the privilege of seeing both extreme ends of the scale.......

A CO taking leave outside the country, taking his BB with him, resulting in running up a rather large $$$ bill for checking his emails.  Result.....change in policy on BB use when on leave outside the area.

Someone assigned for on-call duty, given both a Cellphone and Pager.  Who decided to turn both off, because "the phone kept ringing and the pager kept going off" and they couldn't sleep.  They even tried their home phone but they had unplugged that too......  Let's just say, a rather "expensive" lesson was learned as a result.

Hell, we don't even know anything about the person who made the original post.  It could have been a Cpl who was told/ordered by their MCpl to get a phone.  But just for the sake of it, take the time to think of things in this context............"If I had to get in touch with the people within my AOR right NOW, how many could I expect to be able to reach if I tried?"

I get the concept of service before self, but it shouldn't be extrapolated and applied universally when the reality is 95% of the forces (deployed units aside) don't need to be reachable all the time.  Ship recalls normally hit around 90% of folks reached; there are always a few out on the town, not checking messages, sleeping etc depending on when you do it.  That's why there are backups and redundancies built into the manning.  If you do a real recall it also goes out over all the local radio/tv stations (same as snow closure announcements).  I think if you can get 80% back in to work within 12 hours you are doing pretty good.

Work/life balance is considered important enough to be ranked on PERs; so people need to relax a bit and find a reasonable balance between being on duty and downtime.  When I'm at work I'm fully engaged, but unless something is on the go, I don't normally check my BB after hours, and maybe only once or twice over a long stretch like xmas.  With an NCR desk job, even that is overkill during normal work tempo.  Different on ship, but that's a completely different situation and only for a relatively short period.  My point is, your 'service before self' needs to scale proportionally to your specific units requirements, and with the exception of a very few people, not being able to get a hold of someone outside of work for a day is not the end of the world.

Speaking of which, tis the season to relax and forget about work... Merry Xmas! :subbies:
 

Fishbone Jones

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Everyone has their own opinion and most of those have been stated more than once.

How about everyone quit guessing.

If someone has something definite, legal and verifiable.............then it can be posted.

All of this  :argument: is getting really old, really fast.


 
S

stellarpanther

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Can anyone provide a reference that discusses mbr's providing their unit with contact info?  Although I am a clerk, anything I have seen or been told states that contact info needs to be provided but doesn't specify what type. As far as I'm concerned, a mbr can provide a home phone with voicemail or if someone at home answers they can take a message and forwards it to the mbr and the mbr calls the unit back.  Nothing that I can find says a mbr needs to provide a cellphone number.  We have a mbr in that situation and I'm trying to help him out because his CoC says he needs to give his cell number out against his wishes.  I don't think he does.
 

RedcapCrusader

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stellarpanther said:
Can anyone provide a reference that discusses mbr's providing their unit with contact info?  Although I am a clerk, anything I have seen or been told states that contact info needs to be provided but doesn't specify what type. As far as I'm concerned, a mbr can provide a home phone with voicemail or if someone at home answers they can take a message and forwards it to the mbr and the mbr calls the unit back.  Nothing that I can find says a mbr needs to provide a cellphone number.  We have a mbr in that situation and I'm trying to help him out because his CoC says he needs to give his cell number out against his wishes.  I don't think he does.

It's really that simple. Contact information.

Could literally be anything. There is no regulation or order stating a member must have or provide a cellphone. If that were the case then the CAF would issue out cellphones to every recruit.
 

PuckChaser

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If you need to be in contact 24/7, the CAF will need to issue a blackberry or pager. I see nothing wrong with providing a home landline number that has a voicemail or answering machine. The mbr should be asking their CoC for a reference that states the requirement for a cellphone, or if the unit is willing to cover the cost of subj phone.
 

Loachman

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LunchMeat said:
If that were the case then the CAF would issue out cellphones to every recruit.

Just like it does with landline phones and facebooks...
 

Gunner98

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Each unit should have Standing Orders that explains the recall process and notice to move levels of the unit.  The latter will normally dictate how accessible members need to remain.  There was never an issue, in many units that I served with, to provide numbers which were shown as "Unlisted" on published recall lists.  If a unit regularly (quarterly, semi-annually) exercises their recall process then the bugs can be worked out as to where these unlisted numbers can be held - Duty Officer Book, Chief Clerk's files, Supervisor's Division Notes, etc.  There was always a differentiation between unit recall lists, nominal roles, NOK contact forms and social telephone lists, etc. 

In the pre-cellphone era there was sometimes a discussion about how you would contact soldiers who "lived in" quarters but preferred the comfort of their girlfriends loft to their four-man rooms.  That was often settled with a Duty NCO sign-out book or weekend leave passes. For many living off Base the discussion was do I have to pay for a home phone just so that my chain of command could contact me.  Often reasonable means were found to avoid this unnecessary expense unless people were in high-readiness units in which the CO/RSM would say if you can't afford the home phone on top of your rent then we will make a bed space/room in the barracks for you!  Losing living out privileges for single guys was a common experience.
 

Ludoc

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stellarpanther said:
Can anyone provide a reference that discusses mbr's providing their unit with contact info?  Although I am a clerk, anything I have seen or been told states that contact info needs to be provided but doesn't specify what type. As far as I'm concerned, a mbr can provide a home phone with voicemail or if someone at home answers they can take a message and forwards it to the mbr and the mbr calls the unit back.  Nothing that I can find says a mbr needs to provide a cellphone number.  We have a mbr in that situation and I'm trying to help him out because his CoC says he needs to give his cell number out against his wishes.  I don't think he does.

So you're asking for the reference that says pers have to obey lawful commands?
 
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